MLB Extra Innings

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

By the way BbB....try going on to ESPN and see if you can hear the Mike and Mike show that they did today. Greenberg had a lot to say about this topic and some of it may be of interest to you.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not going to have time to check it out. If anyone can provide a quick synopsis, it would be much appreciated.

 

I listened to it and didn't find it to be inside information at all. Basically summed up what fans thought and how it could pull fans away from watching in the future.

 

Unless they talked further, I didn't find it to be anything worth noting.

[BigbadB]

By the way, the cost of Pay-Per-View in bars is loosely based on maximum occupancy. I recall a few bars in San Diego several years ago that got busted for illegally transmitting PPV fights to their customers. When they got caught, they were fined a hefty amount and had to pay so much per head based on maximum occupancy.

 

I can't recall whether the illegal broadcasts were from those illegal analog cable boxes that were just about everywhere right before cable went digital, but the fines weren't pretty.

[CuseCubFan69]

By the way BbB....try going on to ESPN and see if you can hear the Mike and Mike show that they did today. Greenberg had a lot to say about this topic and some of it may be of interest to you.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not going to have time to check it out. If anyone can provide a quick synopsis, it would be much appreciated.

 

I listened to it and didn't find it to be inside information at all. Basically summed up what fans thought and how it could pull fans away from watching in the future.

 

Unless they talked further, I didn't find it to be anything worth noting.

 

I think it wasn't earth shattering but just bringing this up and open for discussion will help IMO. I admit they didn't break this down but it got a lot of hits e-mail wise about how fans felt. They did talk about streamlining it from the net to your TV as one possible solution.

[moorecg]

IMO, this is one of the first steps in the evolution of Pay-Per-Veiw sports. I am absolutely conviced that in 5-10 years all NFL games will be on the NFL Network on a pay-per-view basis. Baseball will follow suit.

 

I think this may be correct (absent playoffs and maybe some local broadcasting stations), and would actually be preferable (at least to me) to the current set up of DirecTV being the only route to get it. I don't mind paying for Cubs games, what I'm mad about is being forced to switch carriers.

[CuseCubFan69]

IMO, this is one of the first steps in the evolution of Pay-Per-Veiw sports. I am absolutely conviced that in 5-10 years all NFL games will be on the NFL Network on a pay-per-view basis. Baseball will follow suit.

 

I think this may be correct (absent playoffs and maybe some local broadcasting stations), and would actually be preferable (at least to me) to the current set up of DirecTV being the only route to get it. I don't mind paying for Cubs games, what I'm mad about is being forced to switch carriers.

 

Baseball can't get people to watch the World Series for free I don't see how they would go to a pay-per-view.

 

Plus, IMO you lose fans, especially young fans doing this. If the games are at bars how are kids going to watch them?

[moorecg]

IMO, this is one of the first steps in the evolution of Pay-Per-Veiw sports. I am absolutely conviced that in 5-10 years all NFL games will be on the NFL Network on a pay-per-view basis. Baseball will follow suit.

 

I think this may be correct (absent playoffs and maybe some local broadcasting stations), and would actually be preferable (at least to me) to the current set up of DirecTV being the only route to get it. I don't mind paying for Cubs games, what I'm mad about is being forced to switch carriers.

 

Baseball can't get people to watch the World Series for free I don't see how they would go to a pay-per-view.

 

Plus, IMO you lose fans, especially young fans doing this. If the games are at bars how are kids going to watch them?

 

That's why I made the exception for playoffs and some local broadcasts. I don't think you'll ever see the WS go to pay per view, and I think you'll always probably be able to get most of your home town team's games for basically free, but I can see the potential for PPV on out of market games in both football and baseball. That's basically what the Extra-Innings was, but you payed "per season". I don't mind paying for it, I just think everyone should be able to buy it if they want.

[CuseCubFan69]

IMO, this is one of the first steps in the evolution of Pay-Per-Veiw sports. I am absolutely conviced that in 5-10 years all NFL games will be on the NFL Network on a pay-per-view basis. Baseball will follow suit.

 

I think this may be correct (absent playoffs and maybe some local broadcasting stations), and would actually be preferable (at least to me) to the current set up of DirecTV being the only route to get it. I don't mind paying for Cubs games, what I'm mad about is being forced to switch carriers.

 

Baseball can't get people to watch the World Series for free I don't see how they would go to a pay-per-view.

 

Plus, IMO you lose fans, especially young fans doing this. If the games are at bars how are kids going to watch them?

 

That's why I made the exception for playoffs and some local broadcasts. I don't think you'll ever see the WS go to pay per view, and I think you'll always probably be able to get most of your home town team's games for basically free, but I can see the potential for PPV on out of market games in both football and baseball. That's basically what the Extra-Innings was, but you payed "per season". I don't mind paying for it, I just think everyone should be able to buy it if they want.

 

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

[moorecg]

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

 

Agreed, although i think the decrease in WGN Games has a lot more to do with WGN going to a "network" affiliation and choosing not to broadcast all the Cubs games...someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a MLB call.

[goonys evil twin]

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

 

Agreed, although i think the decrease in WGN Games has a lot more to do with WGN going to a "network" affiliation and choosing not to broadcast all the Cubs games...someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a MLB call.

 

The days of kids across the country becoming Cubs fans because it was the only thing on in the afternoons are long gone. The only way this would bite them is if they lost current fans (doubtful), or lost enough potential fans to offset the financial gain. I don't think that will happen. Unless their father's are already Cubs fans, kids in other states aren't hanging out watching the Cubs on summer afternoons and falling in love.

[radarluv1]

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

 

Agreed, although i think the decrease in WGN Games has a lot more to do with WGN going to a "network" affiliation and choosing not to broadcast all the Cubs games...someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a MLB call.

 

the decrease in WGN games is also all about $$. Lots of games were on CSTV or whatever while WGN played some crap movie from the 80's, not series from a new network.

[radarluv1]

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

 

Agreed, although i think the decrease in WGN Games has a lot more to do with WGN going to a "network" affiliation and choosing not to broadcast all the Cubs games...someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a MLB call.

 

The days of kids across the country becoming Cubs fans because it was the only thing on in the afternoons are long gone. The only way this would bite them is if they lost current fans (doubtful), or lost enough potential fans to offset the financial gain. I don't think that will happen. Unless their father's are already Cubs fans, kids in other states aren't hanging out watching the Cubs on summer afternoons and falling in love.

 

i wonder if the braves have a big nationwide following given their superstation and recent success? they didnt have a harry caray to listen too, though.

[Garwilly]

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

 

Agreed, although i think the decrease in WGN Games has a lot more to do with WGN going to a "network" affiliation and choosing not to broadcast all the Cubs games...someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a MLB call.

 

The days of kids across the country becoming Cubs fans because it was the only thing on in the afternoons are long gone. The only way this would bite them is if they lost current fans (doubtful), or lost enough potential fans to offset the financial gain. I don't think that will happen. Unless their father's are already Cubs fans, kids in other states aren't hanging out watching the Cubs on summer afternoons and falling in love.

 

i wonder if the braves have a big nationwide following given their superstation and recent success? they didnt have a harry caray to listen too, though.

 

They did have Skip though.

[J.R.]

And these "bottom feeders" as you call them, are the ones out buying up $200 MLB-EI packages?

 

No. They bilk the company out of four receivers and a dish, pay two years' worth of lowest-tier programming and then bail.

 

Under Section One of the Sherman Act, combinations in restraint of trade are illegal. Section Two of that Act covers monopolization and attempts to monopolize. I feel pretty comfortable in saying that you could state a claim under either section...whether you'd win or not is a different story and likely dependent on how the relevant market is defined, but I don't see this as a "pro-competitive" move.

 

Until someone pulls the string on such a suit, it's meaningless. If they won't take action over the NFL, they won't take action over anything, and such action would mean the end of cable exclusives as well.

 

(and before you ask, aside from being a pissed off former MLB-EI subscriber, and ardent Cubs fan stuck in STL who's only way of getting this is through cable as DirecTV doesn't Work at my house, yes, I'm also an antitrust attorney).

 

Good to know.

[wade]

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

 

Agreed, although i think the decrease in WGN Games has a lot more to do with WGN going to a "network" affiliation and choosing not to broadcast all the Cubs games...someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a MLB call.

 

The days of kids across the country becoming Cubs fans because it was the only thing on in the afternoons are long gone. The only way this would bite them is if they lost current fans (doubtful), or lost enough potential fans to offset the financial gain. I don't think that will happen. Unless their father's are already Cubs fans, kids in other states aren't hanging out watching the Cubs on summer afternoons and falling in love.

 

i wonder if the braves have a big nationwide following given their superstation and recent success? they didnt have a harry caray to listen too, though.

 

I know some people around here (Kentucky) that are Braves fans because they saw games on TBS.

[J.R.]

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

 

Agreed, although i think the decrease in WGN Games has a lot more to do with WGN going to a "network" affiliation and choosing not to broadcast all the Cubs games...someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a MLB call.

 

The days of kids across the country becoming Cubs fans because it was the only thing on in the afternoons are long gone. The only way this would bite them is if they lost current fans (doubtful), or lost enough potential fans to offset the financial gain. I don't think that will happen. Unless their father's are already Cubs fans, kids in other states aren't hanging out watching the Cubs on summer afternoons and falling in love.

 

i wonder if the braves have a big nationwide following given their superstation and recent success? they didnt have a harry caray to listen too, though.

 

I know some people around here (Kentucky) that are Braves fans because they saw games on TBS.

 

It's a big national following, albeit not as celebrated as the Cubs'.

[goonys evil twin]

And these "bottom feeders" as you call them, are the ones out buying up $200 MLB-EI packages?

 

No. They bilk the company out of four receivers and a dish, pay two years' worth of lowest-tier programming and then bail.

 

Bilk? If that's what the company is offering, why shouldn't they take it?

[Soul]

It is nice to be able to watch Cub games if you live in Syracuse all the time and not depend on WGN but it seems to me since they have received money for the dish/cable they have decreased Cub games big time on WGN and that bugs me. I don't blame them (MLB) for trying to get the most money for their business but I think this is going to bite them in the long run.

 

Agreed, although i think the decrease in WGN Games has a lot more to do with WGN going to a "network" affiliation and choosing not to broadcast all the Cubs games...someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a MLB call.

 

the decrease in WGN games is also all about $$. Lots of games were on CSTV or whatever while WGN played some crap movie from the 80's, not series from a new network.

 

I don't get any of those games on high def anyway. I welcome WGN moving more games off to channels that do offer a HD option, such as Comcast and ESPN.

[BigbadB]

You could get WGN and the Cubs for just about every game back in the good old days. And, outside of some premium channels like HBO and Cinemax, there wasn't much more to cable than a few superstations like TBS, WGN and the one in New York, forgot the name.

[moorecg]

You could get WGN and the Cubs for just about every game back in the good old days. And, outside of some premium channels like HBO and Cinemax, there wasn't much more to cable than a few superstations like TBS, WGN and the one in New York, forgot the name.

 

I can't remember it either, but between the Mets channel, WGN, and WTBS and your local home teams channel, you could get an awful lot of NL games back in the day...sure miss those days.

[moorecg]

And these "bottom feeders" as you call them, are the ones out buying up $200 MLB-EI packages?

 

No. They bilk the company out of four receivers and a dish, pay two years' worth of lowest-tier programming and then bail.

 

But doesn't this go against your argument? If these people aren't the ones buying MLB-EI then DirecTV's monopolization of MLB-EI will do nothing to keep them. At best, it would only serve to keep other consumers, which would result in you and I having to pay for their "bottom feeding"

 

Until someone pulls the string on such a suit, it's meaningless. If they won't take action over the NFL, they won't take action over anything, and such action would mean the end of cable exclusives as well.

 

The reason I think this might result in a suit is that there was already a market for this product. With Sunday Ticket, it was a new innovative thing that started with DirecTV, here, for the last few years numerous outlets have been selling the product, going only to DirecTV now eliminates an established market. There is where your anticompetitive conduct arises.

[goonys evil twin]

You could get WGN and the Cubs for just about every game back in the good old days. And, outside of some premium channels like HBO and Cinemax, there wasn't much more to cable than a few superstations like TBS, WGN and the one in New York, forgot the name.

 

WOR 9, the whore as I liked to call it.

[J.R.]

Bilk? If that's what the company is offering, why shouldn't they take it?

 

The "bilk" comes in when the company loses the customer with a deficit. I'm not suggesting wrongdoing.

 

You could get WGN and the Cubs for just about every game back in the good old days. And, outside of some premium channels like HBO and Cinemax, there wasn't much more to cable than a few superstations like TBS, WGN and the one in New York, forgot the name.

 

WOR.

 

At best, it would only serve to keep other consumers, which would result in you and I having to pay for their "bottom feeding"

 

I probably should have said "mitigate churn" rather than "stop churn." The point is to draw enough customers like you — who will pay for stuff like MLBEI, and won't bolt — so that the impact of inevitable customer turnover is lessened.

 

The reason I think this might result in a suit is that there was already a market for this product. With Sunday Ticket, it was a new innovative thing that started with DirecTV, here, for the last few years numerous outlets have been selling the product, going only to DirecTV now eliminates an established market. There is where your anticompetitive conduct arises.

 

Sounds like you're splitting hairs.

[moorecg]

"J.R

The reason I think this might result in a suit is that there was already a market for this product. With Sunday Ticket' date=' it was a new innovative thing that started with DirecTV, here, for the last few years numerous outlets have been selling the product, going only to DirecTV now eliminates an established market. There is where your anticompetitive conduct arises.[/quote']

 

Sounds like you're splitting hairs.

 

That Sir, is my job. :D

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Joe Sheehan weighs in on this.

 

Link(subscriber content.)

 

This quote is true on many levels.

 

MLB is going to tick off a subset of that group: EI subscribers who either have Dish Network or cable. However, they’re not going to lose that group of people as fans of MLB as a whole. Some of those people will switch to DirecTV, others will make do with MLB.tv, still others will not purchase a package and live without the extra games. The number of fans that MLB will lose because of this decision, however, could fit in my living room. You simply don’t go from being such a big fan of baseball that you would purchase 1200 games a year on satellite to a non-fan based on one decision.

 

[kujay]

Joe Sheehan weighs in on this.

 

Link(subscriber content.)

 

This quote is true on many levels.

 

MLB is going to tick off a subset of that group: EI subscribers who either have Dish Network or cable. However, they’re not going to lose that group of people as fans of MLB as a whole. Some of those people will switch to DirecTV, others will make do with MLB.tv, still others will not purchase a package and live without the extra games. The number of fans that MLB will lose because of this decision, however, could fit in my living room. You simply don’t go from being such a big fan of baseball that you would purchase 1200 games a year on satellite to a non-fan based on one decision.

 

 

I'm really hacked off about this, but he's right. I'm not going to stop being a Cubs fan or a baseball fan. I figured out last year that with Cards-Cubs games, national games and WGN games, I got between 75-80 Cubs games without EI. That wasn't enough, so I paid up.

 

But I think I'm willing to go the MLB.tv route for the remainder of the games. Plus I can watch at work, which is real nice for the day games. And many of those day games are not on WGN anyways.

 

And MLB.tv is cheaper. I'd love to just do both, but convincing Ms. Jay to go without her "in-demand" movies is not going to happen.