Bagwell Set to retire today...

[Bergy92]

If already posted, sorry - didn't see it. But I guess Jeff Bagwell is retiring today and staying in the Houston organization.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2694888

 

So let the debate begin about the "hall of fame" - incredible player, but I doubt in.

[illiniguy]

nah pry not now, but without three lost years there is no doubt. although maybe, he did do a lot of that great career in the dome.

[RynoRules]

Bags is in the McGwire-Sosa class in terms of his HOF prospects, IMO.

[JeffH]

Bagwell is a no-doubt Hall of Famer in my book.

[VanceJergins]

Dang, I just looked up Bagwell's stats and he was much better than I thought. I never really paid much attention to him but he had some amazing seasons. I think he definitely deserves the HOF.

[Abe Frohman]

Bagwell is a HOFer. He was the face of his organization his whole career, and one of the finest hitters in the game. Played a solid 1st base also.

[Backtobanks]

Bagwell is a HOFer. He was the face of his organization his whole career, and one of the finest hitters in the game. Played a solid 1st base also.

 

I think he's a HOFer too, but it might depend on who else is eligible that year.

[Rob]

He's one of the very top first basemen to ever play the game. If he doesn't get in, it'll be another black eye for the validity of the HoF in the vein of the Santo and Blyleven gaffes.

[erik316wttn]

Bags is in the McGwire-Sosa class in terms of his HOF prospects, IMO.

 

Do you mean in terms of talent, or terms of "probably won't get in because of steroid accusations?"

[Bruce Miles]

Until I saw Derrek Lee, I thought Bagwell was the best right-handed first baseman I'd ever seen. Now, he's second best. But he was a tremendous player and one I hope everyone here appreciates, even though this is a Cubs board. He and Biggio were the faces of the Astros for a long time, and both have been terrific to deal with.

(I'm voting for Blyleven again, by the way.)

[Jehrico]

Bags is in the McGwire-Sosa class in terms of his HOF prospects, IMO.

 

Do you mean in terms of talent, or terms of "probably won't get in because of steroid accusations?"

I think he means his chances of getting inducted are equal to Sosa's and McGwire's diminished chances. His resume isn't as strong as those two, but there's doubt that lowers their stock. Without the steriod suspicions, Sosa and McGwire are ahead of Bagwell, no doubt.

 

I'll be the odd one out, I don't know if Bagwell is a HOFer. I don't think he's a no-doubt HOFer that is. I would call him a borderline HOFer. Those last three years when he was hurt cost him alot. Unfortunately, there's alot of idiots who vote for the HOF (cough, cough, *Joe Morgan* cough, cough) who penalize players for injury/health shortened careers and/or for never winning the World Series (Mr. Bagwell, meet Mr. Santo).

[Guest]

Until I saw Derrek Lee, I thought Bagwell was the best right-handed first baseman I'd ever seen. Now, he's second best. But he was a tremendous player and one I hope everyone here appreciates, even though this is a Cubs board. He and Biggio were the faces of the Astros for a long time, and both have been terrific to deal with.

(I'm voting for Blyleven again, by the way.)

I assume you're talking about defensively with the above statement. Otherwise I'd rank Thomas ahead of Bags in overall value.

 

I believe Bagwell should be in the HOF. And Frank.

 

Blyleven should have been in a long time ago!

[Bruce Miles]

Until I saw Derrek Lee, I thought Bagwell was the best right-handed first baseman I'd ever seen. Now, he's second best. But he was a tremendous player and one I hope everyone here appreciates, even though this is a Cubs board. He and Biggio were the faces of the Astros for a long time, and both have been terrific to deal with.

(I'm voting for Blyleven again, by the way.)

I assume you're talking about defensively with the above statement. Otherwise I'd rank Thomas ahead of Bags in overall value.

 

I believe Bagwell should be in the HOF. And Frank.

 

Blyleven should have been in a long time ago!

 

Yes, I was talking about defense. I used to like watching how he'd cut across the pitcher's mound on bunts and get the guy at third base (against the Cardinals, of course).

[rawaction]

I'm a firm believer that if a player is of HOF caliber, he should be in right away like in the NFL. That being said, going by baseball's standards.....Bagwell is probably a 3rd ballot type of guy.

[rawaction]

Until I saw Derrek Lee, I thought Bagwell was the best right-handed first baseman I'd ever seen. Now, he's second best. But he was a tremendous player and one I hope everyone here appreciates, even though this is a Cubs board. He and Biggio were the faces of the Astros for a long time, and both have been terrific to deal with.

(I'm voting for Blyleven again, by the way.)

I assume you're talking about defensively with the above statement. Otherwise I'd rank Thomas ahead of Bags in overall value.

 

I believe Bagwell should be in the HOF. And Frank.

 

Blyleven should have been in a long time ago!

 

Yes, I was talking about defense. I used to like watching how he'd cut across the pitcher's mound on bunts and get the guy at third base (against the Cardinals, of course).

 

I actually think Bagwell in his prime was slightly better than Lee is now, defensively. I'd say range is about equal. Lee has a slightly better arm. Lee makes better stretches. Bags was slightly better picking the ball out of the dirt. Take away Derrek's 5 inch height advantage and he doesn't come close to Bagwell defensively.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Bagwell was amazing offensively and defensively. He is HOF worthy.

[cheapseats]

I'm a firm believer that if a player is of HOF caliber, he should be in right away like in the NFL. That being said, going by baseball's standards.....Bagwell is probably a 3rd ballot type of guy.

 

Jay Jaffe ranks Bagwell's peak years as 3rd-best of all time for first basemen, behnd Lou Gehrig and Jimmie Foxx.

 

Bagwell shouldn't be penalized for playing so many games in the cavernous Astrodome.

[Jehrico]

I'm a firm believer that if a player is of HOF caliber, he should be in right away like in the NFL. That being said, going by baseball's standards.....Bagwell is probably a 3rd ballot type of guy.

 

Jay Jaffe ranks Bagwell's peak years as 3rd-best of all time for first basemen, behnd Lou Gehrig and Jimmie Foxx.

 

Yeah, but he never won a world series!

 

Idiot...

[nilodnayr]

Here are two Bill James metrics...

 

The HOF monitor (which calculates how likely, not deserving, a player is of getting into the HOF) rates Bagwell at 149.5. 100 is likely, 130 is a virtual lock. Bagwell ranks 31 in this metric

 

The HOF standards (which measures overall quality of career, rather than outlying outstanding years) rates Bagwell at 59. 50 is the average HOF. Bagwell ranks 78 in this metric.

 

 

And another measure are the black and grey ink measures. He is slightly below the average HOF in the black ink (leading statistical categories in your league) and slightly above in the grey ink (appearances in top 10 in statistical categories in your league).

 

In HOF voting, being the face of the organization probably counts for a great deal as well. IMO he should be first ballot.

[cheapseats]

He is slightly below the average HOF in the black ink (leading statistical categories in your league)

 

Without looking at the numbers, I'd guess this is where the Astrodome would hurt him most.

[AllStarMe]

I think Bags should be in the HOF within the first year or two. Amazing stats, team loyalty, good all-around player.

 

That said, his wacky batting stance sure used to piss me off.

[nilodnayr]

He is slightly below the average HOF in the black ink (leading statistical categories in your league)

 

Without looking at the numbers, I'd guess this is where the Astrodome would hurt him most.

 

Great point. Black ink values HRs, RBIs, BA the highest. In 94 and 97, Bagwell finished second in HRs (4 and 6 out of the lead respectively). In 92 he finished 13 RBIs out of the lead and in 97, 5 RBIs out of the lead. If Bagwell came in first in either of those 4, he would then rank as above average. And I'm sure some of the other categories were negatively affected as well.

[weis21]

testing pic

[Bote McBoteface]

Dang, I just looked up Bagwell's stats and he was much better than I thought. I never really paid much attention to him but he had some amazing seasons. I think he definitely deserves the HOF.

 

This is actually part of the reason he might not make the HOF. Great player, but he never really got the exposure he deserved because he played in HOU, and was always overshadowed by McGwire/Sosa/etc.

[RockTheIvy]

And for the old school dudes like me...

 

He had two 30-30 seasons!