Jennings to Houston

[NorthsideAvenger]

Man, the Astros are gunning for third place, aren't they?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Interesting.

 

Hirsch is really interesting.

 

I'm surprrised you guys like Buchholz that much. His 5.89 ERA for Houston this year doesn't look that great.

 

He's spend part of this year, as well as 05 and 04 in triple A, and didn't have an ERA below 4.81 in any of those seasons. And this year was his first AAA season where he nudged up over 7 K's/9. Is he really that good?

 

I don't recall Round Rock's reputation, is that a monster homer-dome place? For some reason I'm think back in it's AA days, RoundRock was the one place in the Texas League where pitchers had a fair chance. Is that no longer true?

 

Is he really that jazzy of a prospect?

 

Hirsch, he's very interesting obviously. I'm just wondering whether Buckholz is just a guy, like tossing in Mateo, or whether he's a real value in his own right.

 

Nah, RR isn't on par with a lot of the other PCL parks - it's more pitcher friendly. I'm not that big a Buchholz fan but he's certainly more valuable than Mateo.

 

Still think this was an awful trade for the Astros.

Edited December 12, 2006 by CaliforniaRaisin

[Guest]

I guess I was going off old reputation for Buchholz instead of looking up what he's actually done recently.

 

Still, I wouldn't have traded Hirsh for Jennings straight up.

[Andy]

Weren't the Stros just refusing to add Hirsh to the Jon Garland deal just a week ago?

 

Bad, bad, bad deal. God bless NL Central GMs.

[goonys evil twin]

To me, it's about giving up 3 prospects for a 1 year rental. Stupid.

 

The Cubs did it last year with Pierre, so I guess it was Houston's turn this year.

 

Is that really what it was? Jennings was better last year than Pierre was the year before the Cubs got him. And you can't call Taveras a prospect. He's just a bad 25 year old baseball player with no upside. And with Pettite and Clemens likely gone, there's a lot of money available to sign this guy, and probably a great deal more justification than there was for the Cubs to sign Pierre.

[Wolverineman]

While it's a bad deal for the 'Stros, I hate the deal from a Cubs perspective too cause I'll really miss that out machine at the top of their lineup every day.

[Balsa]

Terrible deal for the 'Stros.

 

Makes our job a lot easier though.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Terrible deal for the 'Stros.

 

Makes our job a lot easier though.

 

This is a really dumb statement. Hirsh is a prospect, he didn't pitch for the Astros last year. Tavares is addition by subtraction, and Bucholz is a nobody. Conversely, they add Jennings, a major league 3/4 starter.

 

A couple years down the road, this will likely be an awful deal for the Astros, but in 2007, it makes them marginally better. That makes our job harder, not easier.

[Drew Doughty]

How does it make them better? He's joining Woody Williams to take over for Clemens and Pettitte.

 

Despite Pettitte's poor year -- I guess, 107 ERA+ isn't awful -- his year still has a good chance to be better than what Jennings or Williams will provide.

[Balsa]

Terrible deal for the 'Stros.

 

Makes our job a lot easier though.

 

This is a really dumb statement. Hirsh is a prospect, he didn't pitch for the Astros last year. Tavares is addition by subtraction, and Bucholz is a nobody. Conversely, they add Jennings, a major league 3/4 starter.

 

A couple years down the road, this will likely be an awful deal for the Astros, but in 2007, it makes them marginally better. That makes our job harder, not easier.

Hirsh rocked AAA last year. I'd be surprised if he doesn't make it to the majors next year. Besides, Jennings is no prize.

 

Also, I never said "next year" or anything, it's a bad deal now, and it's a worse deal in the future.

[KingCubsFan]

Which is better?

1. Zambrano, Lilly, Hill

2. Oswalt, Jennings, Williams

[Rob]

Which is better?

1. Zambrano, Lilly, Hill

2. Oswalt, Jennings, Williams

 

Zambrano, Prior, Hill

[Drew Doughty]

Which is better?

1. Zambrano, Lilly, Hill

2. Oswalt, Jennings, Williams

 

I like Zambrano, Lilly, Hill personally. Zambrano = Oswalt -- or there at least isn't a sizeable gap between them -- and Hill has the chance to dominate this year. 2006 Jennings reeks of fluke, and Williams is 39 years old going from a pitchers park to a hitters park.

 

Lilly is likely to have similar stats to one of Jennings or Lilly, and I think Hill outproduces the other one.

[C.C.]

Which is better?

1. Zambrano, Lilly, Hill

2. Oswalt, Jennings, Williams

 

Zambrano, Lilly, and Hill.

[cubs121]

Which is better?

1. Zambrano, Lilly, Hill

2. Oswalt, Jennings, Williams

 

Zambrano, Lilly, and Hill.

same here.

[wolf stansson]

This deal is basically Hirsh for Jennings.

 

The suckastros still got abused.

[Brian]

This deal is basically Hirsh for Jennings.

 

The suckastros still got abused.

 

sweet avatar. haren = pimp

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Hrm, wolf's avatar got me thinking. Over the last three offseasons, NL Central teams have traded Haren, Nolasco and Hirsch for Mulder, Pierre and Jennings. Ouch.

[cubs121]

Hrm, wolf's avatar got me thinking. Over the last three offseasons, NL Central teams have traded Haren, Nolasco and Hirsch for Mulder, Pierre and Jennings. Ouch.

double ouch. :?

[Guest]

Hrm, wolf's avatar got me thinking. Over the last three offseasons, NL Central teams have traded Haren, Nolasco and Hirsch for Mulder, Pierre and Jennings. Ouch.

double ouch. :?

The good news is that they came out of that worse than we did. I'd rather have lost Nolasco than Haren or Hirsch.

[jjgman21]

Hrm, wolf's avatar got me thinking. Over the last three offseasons, NL Central teams have traded Haren, Nolasco and Hirsch for Mulder, Pierre and Jennings. Ouch.

 

ya know, Haren's a nice pitcher, but has he really proven anything other than being a Ted Lilly type starter? Nolasco looks to have a future, but 89 ERA+ isn't anything to set your hair on fire about. Hirsch hasn't done anything at all in the majors.

 

I guess my point is, those trades look lopsided in terms of potential and what they brought the receiving team in the long term, but potential hasn't been met and the long term yet to be seen. Haren's already made the Cards look a little silly, but if Nolasco doesn't step his game up and Hirsch doesn't pan out...so what that those players were traded for those players?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Hrm, wolf's avatar got me thinking. Over the last three offseasons, NL Central teams have traded Haren, Nolasco and Hirsch for Mulder, Pierre and Jennings. Ouch.

double ouch. :?

The good news is that they came out of that worse than we did. I'd rather have lost Nolasco than Haren or Hirsch.

 

Agreed. Plus the Cubs got a sandwich pick after all that.

[TXCubsFan]

Miguel Acensio and Jason Jennings for Taylor Buchholz and Jason Hirsh? Wow terrible deal for the Astros. Enjoy that 1.50 WHIP Houston.

Houston also kicks in WIllie Tavares.

 

Giving $ for Marquis doesn't look so bad in comparison.

[CoolHandLuke]

Hrm, wolf's avatar got me thinking. Over the last three offseasons, NL Central teams have traded Haren, Nolasco and Hirsch for Mulder, Pierre and Jennings. Ouch.

 

ya know, Haren's a nice pitcher, but has he really proven anything other than being a Ted Lilly type starter? Nolasco looks to have a future, but 89 ERA+ isn't anything to set your hair on fire about. Hirsch hasn't done anything at all in the majors.

 

I guess my point is, those trades look lopsided in terms of potential and what they brought the receiving team in the long term, but potential hasn't been met and the long term yet to be seen. Haren's already made the Cards look a little silly, but if Nolasco doesn't step his game up and Hirsch doesn't pan out...so what that those players were traded for those players?

 

Haren accomplished something in each of the last two years that Lilly has not ever done.

[jjgman21]

Hrm, wolf's avatar got me thinking. Over the last three offseasons, NL Central teams have traded Haren, Nolasco and Hirsch for Mulder, Pierre and Jennings. Ouch.

 

ya know, Haren's a nice pitcher, but has he really proven anything other than being a Ted Lilly type starter? Nolasco looks to have a future, but 89 ERA+ isn't anything to set your hair on fire about. Hirsch hasn't done anything at all in the majors.

 

I guess my point is, those trades look lopsided in terms of potential and what they brought the receiving team in the long term, but potential hasn't been met and the long term yet to be seen. Haren's already made the Cards look a little silly, but if Nolasco doesn't step his game up and Hirsch doesn't pan out...so what that those players were traded for those players?

 

Haren accomplished something in each of the last two years that Lilly has not ever done.

 

what, a few more innings? so what? it doesn't detract from my primary point. fine, Marquis hasn't proven to be anything beyond Lilly with a few more innings.