Meche reportedly to sign with Royals per Fox Sports

[wilk]

Again, Per Rotoworld:

 

The Cardinals are targeting free agent Jason Schmidt, though they may not go beyond three years to sign him.

 

"There's a question of how far we go, but we're going," GM Walt Jocketty said. "We'd like to have him." Agent Randy Hendricks said Schmidt was receptive to St. Louis, and that the team's reluctance to go beyond three years wouldn't be much of a problem. However, it appears likely that Schmidt will get $60 million over four years from some team, perhaps the Cubs or the Dodgers.

Source: Cardinals.mlb.com

 

This is a direct quote. Last time I looked, St. Louis was not on the west coast or anywhere near Seattle.

 

Sure, it's St. Louis rather than Chicago. But, I've yet to see the Cubs get blown off as quickly as Milwaukee did. Therefore, I'm not willing to assume Schmidt has no interest in the money the Cubs seem to have readily available to hand out.

 

A direct quote from the Cardinal's GM. The comments from his agent that Rotoworld refers to is: "Hendricks acknowledged that despite a couple of perceived hindrances to a deal, Schmidt wouldn't mind being a Cardinal. He said that Schmidt's preference to remain on the West Coast is real, but has been overblown..."

 

So his preference to stay on the West coast is "real" but he "wouldn't mind" being a Cardinal. Again, far from a direct quote where Schmidt states he has interest in Chicago. Even "wouldn't mind" and "interest in" are very different and the defending champions are quite different from a last place team even if they're both central teams.

 

They're not going to quickly dismiss offers from teams with a lot of money or defending champions because obviously this is significant leverage. I'm not saying it's impossible Schmidt settles on a team east of where he has previously stated but it's clearly his preference. You said you could dig up quotes "where Schmidt has stated that he has interest in Chicago," are we concluding that while we could make assumptions such that West Coast isn't a necessity, neither he nor his agent has mentioned interest in Chicago?

[BigbadB]

New rumors about Manny possibly being traded to Seattle or LA could take one of those teams out of the hunt for Schmidt as well.

[BigbadB]

A direct quote from the Cardinal's GM. The comments from his agent that Rotoworld refers to is: "Hendricks acknowledged that despite a couple of perceived hindrances to a deal, Schmidt wouldn't mind being a Cardinal. He said that Schmidt's preference to remain on the West Coast is real, but has been overblown..."

 

So his preference to stay on the West coast is "real" but he "wouldn't mind" being a Cardinal. Again, far from a direct quote where Schmidt states he has interest in Chicago. Even "wouldn't mind" and "interest in" are very different and the defending champions are quite different from a last place team even if they're both central teams.

 

They're not going to quickly dismiss offers from teams with a lot of money or defending champions because obviously this is significant leverage. I'm not saying it's impossible Schmidt settles on a team east of where he has previously stated but it's clearly his preference. You said you could dig up quotes "where Schmidt has stated that he has interest in Chicago," are we concluding that while we could make assumptions such that West Coast isn't a necessity, neither he nor his agent has mentioned interest in Chicago?

 

Okay, you've convinced me. I have no business thinking that Schmidt has any interest in pitching for the Cubs because there is no solid proof.

[TruffleShuffle]

Once Schmidt starts working with Duncan, he'll probably put up an ERA below 1 :x

[wilk]

Okay, you've convinced me. I have no business thinking that Schmidt has any interest in pitching for the Cubs because there is no solid proof.

 

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not. You're obviously allowed to have any opinion you want. It's when you said there were quotes from Schmidt that I was interested in materializing it.

 

I don't think the Cubs have been entirely ruled out from his side--mostly since they're throwing around money--but I think they'd be lower than teams like the Dodgers, Mariners and even Cardinals. Of course, that would mean they'd have to give significantly more than them if Chicago is even an option to him at all.

[BigbadB]

Yep, it was sarcastic. While I can't find anything directly out of Schmidt's mouth that he would be interested in the Cubs, I don't see why your opinion should be held as gospel and mine should be tormented.

 

The Cubs have tons of money to throw at Schmidt. If that doesn't interest him, so be it. But, if they want to lay out tons of money for Lilly and Meche, then why not throw all that same money at Schmidt if need be, to get it done. Schmidt is a difference maker. Lilly and Meche are not.

[TruffleShuffle]

You get better production from Schmidt and Marshall/Guzman than you do from Lilly and Meche, and you do so while only having one long-term contract on the books.

[wilk]

Yep, it was sarcastic. While I can't find anything directly out of Schmidt's mouth that he would be interested in the Cubs, I don't see why your opinion should be held as gospel and mine should be tormented.

 

The Cubs have tons of money to throw at Schmidt. If that doesn't interest him, so be it. But, if they want to lay out tons of money for Lilly and Meche, then why not throw all that same money at Schmidt if need be, to get it done. Schmidt is a difference maker. Lilly and Meche are not.

 

How absurd could this be? It's your opinion that Schmidt has a published quote stating interest in playing for Chicago that can't be materialized? No. I never questioned your opinion, I questioned your claim:

 

I can dig up quotes where Schmidt has stated that he has interest in...Chicago.

 

So I asked you to. You quote Rotoworld twice and neither are Schmidt nor his agent mentioning interest in Chicago. The "..." was St. Louis, which I wasn't interested in you "digging up" since I saw Schmidt's agent say he "wouldn't mind St. Louis" and the semantics didn't matter to me. But quotes FROM SCHMIDT stating INTEREST IN CHICAGO I'd like to see. I clarify if you're just assuming with a little leap of Cub faith and there aren't actual quotes from Schmidt (or his agent) mentioning Chicago ... and this causes your apparently caustic turn. I never mentioned my opinion to that point at all and I never questioned your opinion. If your post had said "I think Schmidt would come to Chicago because the Cubs have tons of money to throw at him," I wouldn't have questioned a thing. But you instead said: "I can dig up quotes where Schmidt has stated that he has interest in Chicago." And then you rationalize the sarcasm by once and for all saying you can't find anything out of Schmidt's mouth (your original claim). Again, that's the only thing I called into question. Don't blame me.

Edited December 6, 2006 by wilk

[Rusch33]

Since Schmidt is off the market, hopefully we can get Meche and Lilly.

 

Just get us some damn pitchers.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

New rumors about Manny possibly being traded to Seattle or LA could take one of those teams out of the hunt for Schmidt as well.

 

I believe the Dodger rumors are based on after signing Schmidt (trading Penny).

[BigbadB]

So I asked you to. You quote Rotoworld twice and neither are Schmidt nor his agent mentioning interest in Chicago. The "..." was St. Louis, which I wasn't interested in you "digging up" since I saw Schmidt's agent say he "wouldn't mind St. Louis" and the semantics didn't matter to me. But quotes FROM SCHMIDT stating INTEREST IN CHICAGO I'd like to see. I clarify if you're just assuming with a little leap of Cub faith and there aren't actual quotes from Schmidt (or his agent) mentioning Chicago ... and this causes your apparently caustic turn. I never mentioned my opinion to that point at all and I never questioned your opinion. If your post had said "I think Schmidt would come to Chicago because the Cubs have tons of money to throw at him," I wouldn't have questioned a thing. But you instead said: "I can dig up quotes where Schmidt has stated that he has interest in Chicago." And then you rationalize the sarcasm by once and for all saying you can't find anything out of Schmidt's mouth (your original claim). Again, that's the only thing I called into question. Don't blame me.

 

Quotes from Schmidt or his agent are good enough for me. Maybe not for you. Agree to disagree. I'm fine with that.

 

Until I see reports that state Schmidt is not interested in pitching for Chicago, I'm not going to assume he has zero interest.

 

And while I didn't word it properly when I stated I could dig up quotes, what I actually meant was that I could find information that shows that Schmidt hasn't completely closed the door on everyone outside of the west coast.

[BigbadB]

Based on the latest news, I guess it doesn't matter.

[wilk]

Quotes from Schmidt or his agent are good enough for me. Maybe not for you. Agree to disagree. I'm fine with that.

 

No, they would be good but you hadn't given one... A quote from a MLB.com writer saying Schmidt's agent hadn't ruled out St. Louis is not a quote from Schmidt stating interest in Chicago. Which leads me to:

 

And while I didn't word it properly when I stated I could dig up quotes, what I actually meant was that I could find information that shows that Schmidt hasn't completely closed the door on everyone outside of the west coast.

 

Then I guess the problem was in how you worded it. You have to understand when you attribute a quote to someone and say you could provide it that's quite different than saying your opinion is that West coast isn't a necessity since he hadn't publically stated zero interest in all the non-West teams in circulating rumors. The latter (what you actually meant) is an opinion and something I would have had no questions with. The first (what you actually said) was not a matter of opinion since you claimed you could provide a published statement of interest. I only wanted to know if I missed something or if you had meant something other than you said. Glad we got that cleared up.

[Soul]

Based on the latest news, I guess it doesn't matter.

 

I realize it's 100% speculation, but it sure looks to me like Schmidt took our 3/44 offer and went right back to the Dodgers & Mariners and asked for a bit more.

 

And he got it.

[CubinNY]

Quotes from Schmidt or his agent are good enough for me. Maybe not for you. Agree to disagree. I'm fine with that.

 

No, they would be good but you hadn't given one... A quote from a MLB.com writer saying Schmidt's agent hadn't ruled out St. Louis is not a quote from Schmidt stating interest in Chicago. Which leads me to:

 

And while I didn't word it properly when I stated I could dig up quotes, what I actually meant was that I could find information that shows that Schmidt hasn't completely closed the door on everyone outside of the west coast.

 

Then I guess the problem was in how you worded it. You have to understand when you attribute a quote to someone and say you could provide it that's quite different than saying your opinion is that West coast isn't a necessity since he hadn't publically stated zero interest in all the non-West teams in circulating rumors. The latter (what you actually meant) is an opinion and something I would have had no questions with. The first (what you actually said) was not a matter of opinion since you claimed you could provide a published statement of interest. I only wanted to know if I missed something or if you had meant something other than you said. Glad we got that cleared up.

 

The point is moot

[nilodnayr]

Like a cow's opinion

[Rob]

With Schmidt off the board, I'd rather not sign Lilly or Meche.

 

I didn't see us making a run next year without a legit top-of-the-rotation guy. Since we didn't get Matsuzaka, Schmidt's gone, and we aren't looking at Zito... we wont have one.

 

Lilly and Meche wouldn't be enough to help put us in contention, so neither one on their own would be either.

 

Throw the rookies out there next season and see who sticks. Make a run in 08.

[soapy]

With Schmidt off the board, I'd rather not sign Lilly or Meche.

 

I didn't see us making a run next year without a legit top-of-the-rotation guy. Since we didn't get Matsuzaka, Schmidt's gone, and we aren't looking at Zito... we wont have one.

 

Lilly and Meche wouldn't be enough to help put us in contention, so neither one on their own would be either.

 

Throw the rookies out there next season and see who sticks. Make a run in 08.

 

Or sign Bonds and Church and have a loaded offense.

[baseball7897]

With Schmidt off the board, I'd rather not sign Lilly or Meche.

 

I didn't see us making a run next year without a legit top-of-the-rotation guy. Since we didn't get Matsuzaka, Schmidt's gone, and we aren't looking at Zito... we wont have one.

 

Lilly and Meche wouldn't be enough to help put us in contention, so neither one on their own would be either.

 

Throw the rookies out there next season and see who sticks. Make a run in 08.

 

Or sign Bonds and Church and have a loaded offense.

 

Still need pitching.

[BigbadB]

The point is moot

 

Why do I remember this as a Saturday Night Live skit? Is it because it was one?

[soapy]

With Schmidt off the board, I'd rather not sign Lilly or Meche.

 

I didn't see us making a run next year without a legit top-of-the-rotation guy. Since we didn't get Matsuzaka, Schmidt's gone, and we aren't looking at Zito... we wont have one.

 

Lilly and Meche wouldn't be enough to help put us in contention, so neither one on their own would be either.

 

Throw the rookies out there next season and see who sticks. Make a run in 08.

 

Or sign Bonds and Church and have a loaded offense.

 

Still need pitching.

 

And if they sign Meche and Lilly, they'll still need pitching.

 

If those are the only legitimate choices (at the prices being mentioned), I go with the kids and stack the offense.

[C.C.]

With Schmidt off the board, I'd rather not sign Lilly or Meche.

 

I didn't see us making a run next year without a legit top-of-the-rotation guy. Since we didn't get Matsuzaka, Schmidt's gone, and we aren't looking at Zito... we wont have one.

 

Lilly and Meche wouldn't be enough to help put us in contention, so neither one on their own would be either.

 

Throw the rookies out there next season and see who sticks. Make a run in 08.

 

Or sign Bonds and Church and have a loaded offense.

 

Still need pitching.

 

And if they sign Meche and Lilly, they'll still need pitching.

 

If those are the only legitimate choices (at the prices being mentioned), I go with the kids and stack the offense.

 

What did "going with the Kids" get us last year?

[Drew Doughty]

With Schmidt off the board, I'd rather not sign Lilly or Meche.

 

I didn't see us making a run next year without a legit top-of-the-rotation guy. Since we didn't get Matsuzaka, Schmidt's gone, and we aren't looking at Zito... we wont have one.

 

Lilly and Meche wouldn't be enough to help put us in contention, so neither one on their own would be either.

 

Throw the rookies out there next season and see who sticks. Make a run in 08.

 

Or sign Bonds and Church and have a loaded offense.

 

Still need pitching.

 

And if they sign Meche and Lilly, they'll still need pitching.

 

If those are the only legitimate choices (at the prices being mentioned), I go with the kids and stack the offense.

 

What did "going with the Kids" get us last year?

 

That's why we would stack the offense.

 

Also, usually players progress as they gain more experience.

 

So we've got that going for us. Which is nice.

[soapy]

With Schmidt off the board, I'd rather not sign Lilly or Meche.

 

I didn't see us making a run next year without a legit top-of-the-rotation guy. Since we didn't get Matsuzaka, Schmidt's gone, and we aren't looking at Zito... we wont have one.

 

Lilly and Meche wouldn't be enough to help put us in contention, so neither one on their own would be either.

 

Throw the rookies out there next season and see who sticks. Make a run in 08.

 

Or sign Bonds and Church and have a loaded offense.

 

Still need pitching.

 

And if they sign Meche and Lilly, they'll still need pitching.

 

If those are the only legitimate choices (at the prices being mentioned), I go with the kids and stack the offense.

 

What did "going with the Kids" get us last year?

 

And Meche and Lilly are going to change that? At least the "kids" have potential for improvement this year. With a loaded offense, they could probably be good enough, at least until the trade deadline.

 

I have no interest in wasting $20 million per year on mediocrity (or worse) when I could get the same thing from the kids and stack up the offense. IMO, it's a better gamble the hoping that Meche and Lilly are going to break out at this stage in their careers (and spending $20 million in the process).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

With Schmidt off the board, I'd rather not sign Lilly or Meche.

 

I didn't see us making a run next year without a legit top-of-the-rotation guy. Since we didn't get Matsuzaka, Schmidt's gone, and we aren't looking at Zito... we wont have one.

 

Lilly and Meche wouldn't be enough to help put us in contention, so neither one on their own would be either.

 

Throw the rookies out there next season and see who sticks. Make a run in 08.

 

Or sign Bonds and Church and have a loaded offense.

 

Still need pitching.

 

And if they sign Meche and Lilly, they'll still need pitching.

 

If those are the only legitimate choices (at the prices being mentioned), I go with the kids and stack the offense.

 

What did "going with the Kids" get us last year?

 

About as far as going with guys like Meche will get us in 07.