Its Bowl Season...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

SFlorida finished ahead of Cincy but please don't let facts get in the way. Assume away.

 

They had the same conference record and Cincy beat them head-to-head by 17. You'll also notice that he put LSU in front of Arkansas even though Arkansas finished in front of them. It's because LSU beat them head-to-head and then they had opposite finishes(Arkansas drops the SEC title and bowl game, LSU whoops up in their bowl game).

[TruffleShuffle]

This is why I want a playoff. The good ole boys vote and things just remain the same.

 

More inane speak. The good ol' boys stopped giving the Big East credit when Miami, Va Tech and BC left. And lo and behold, the Big East sucked in 2004! Look, if you want the Big East to play 4 games of Outback Bowl calibre or better, then you're advocating that half the Big East teams go to top bowls. That's not going to happen. Sorry, but I'm always going to be more impressed by the 4th place team in the SEC - a team which beats 2/3 of its conference - than the 4th place team in the Big East - which only beat half its conference.

 

And like I said, once the Big East proves that teams like L'ville, WVU and Rutgers can STAY good over a period of time, they'll get their chance. The ACC played second-fiddle for bowl selections until they brought in teams that are good most years. And, while I'm not sure how the Big East can accomplish this, it sure as hell would help their credibility to have more than 8 teams.

[CuseCubFan69]

Let me preface this little exercise by stating that I do not like the SEC in any way. This is how I would rank the top 8 SEC teams and the 8 Big East teams, based only on this season of play. I would like to see anyone else's opinion this as well.

 

1. Florida

2. LSU

3. Louisville

4. West Virginia

5. Arkansas

6. Auburn

7. Rutgers

8. Tennessee

9. Georgia

10.South Carolina

11.Kentucky

12.Cincy

13.South Florida

14.Pitt

15.UConn

16.Syracuse

 

While I believe the top 3 Big East teams are in the class of the top SEC teams this season, the 4-8 of the Big East is very poor in comparison to the middle 4-8 of the SEC.

 

This is why I want a playoff. The good ole boys vote and things just remain the same. I want the games decided on the field and not by voters and until it is this is what is going to happen time and time again, polls like this. Of course if there is a playoff I'm sure the people in charge would only let one Big East team in.

 

 

SFlorida finished ahead of Cincy but please don't let facts get in the way. Assume away.

[DCNashville]

 

 

SFlorida finished ahead of Cincy but please don't let facts get in the way. Assume away.

 

Cincy also spanked South Florida head to head and played a much tougher schedule. Four of their five losses were to Ohio State, Louisville, West Virginia, and Virginia Tech---all solid if not great teams. The fifth loss was to a decent 6-6 Pitt team. In my estimation, Cincy is clearly the better team.

[DCNashville]

Just to add to the previous point, Cincy's strength of schedule was ranked #5 while South Florida's was ranked #74. But don't let those facts or the head-to-head results get in the way. Assume away.

[soccer10k]

Let me preface this little exercise by stating that I do not like the SEC in any way. This is how I would rank the top 8 SEC teams and the 8 Big East teams, based only on this season of play. I would like to see anyone else's opinion this as well.

 

1. Florida

2. LSU

3. Louisville

4. West Virginia

5. Arkansas

6. Auburn

7. Rutgers

8. Tennessee

9. Georgia

10.South Carolina

11.Kentucky

12.Cincy

13.South Florida

14.Pitt

15.UConn

16.Syracuse

 

While I believe the top 3 Big East teams are in the class of the top SEC teams this season, the 4-8 of the Big East is very poor in comparison to the middle 4-8 of the SEC.

 

I'd put Arkansas over Louisville and WVU.

 

I'd put teams that can pass the ball over Arkansas.

 

Well, you could still keep Arkansas over WVU then.

 

Pat White is a far better passer than the Mustain/Dick combination and it's not even close.

[soccer10k]

Perhaps the more interesting argument concerns the Big 10 vs. the SEC. From top to bottom, which stacks up better? I've only looked at the top 10 in each league to have even numbers for comparison.

 

1. Ohio State

2. Michigan

3. Florida

4. LSU

5. Wisconsin

6. Arkansas

7. Auburn

8. Penn State

9. Tennessee

10.Georgia

11.Purdue

12.South Carolina

13.Kentucky

14.Alabama

15.Iowa

16.Minnesota

17.Indiana

18.Vandy

19.Michigan State

20.Northwestern

 

In 2006, at least, I believe the SEC was significantly better than the Big 10, despite perhaps being weaker at the top. I'm still not convinced that OSU, UM, and Wisconsin aren't the three best teams in this group. The middle and bottom of the B10 was just pretty awful this season, however.

 

Also, I agree that LSU is more talented, but it is hard to put them above possible national champion Florida.

 

You mean the same UM that got hammered by USC, that UM?

 

I would put Florida and LSU ahead of Michigan.

Edited January 7, 2007 by soccer10k

[CubColtPacer]

Perhaps the more interesting argument concerns the Big 10 vs. the SEC. From top to bottom, which stacks up better? I've only looked at the top 10 in each league to have even numbers for comparison.

 

1. Ohio State

2. Michigan

3. Florida

4. LSU

5. Wisconsin

6. Arkansas

7. Auburn

8. Penn State

9. Tennessee

10.Georgia

11.Purdue

12.South Carolina

13.Kentucky

14.Alabama

15.Iowa

16.Minnesota

17.Indiana

18.Vandy

19.Michigan State

20.Northwestern

 

In 2006, at least, I believe the SEC was significantly better than the Big 10, despite perhaps being weaker at the top. I'm still not convinced that OSU, UM, and Wisconsin aren't the three best teams in this group. The middle and bottom of the B10 was just pretty awful this season, however.

 

Also, I agree that LSU is more talented, but it is hard to put them above possible national champion Florida.

 

You mean the same UM that got hammered by USC, that UM?

 

I would put Florida and LSU ahead of Michigan.

 

If Florida gets hammered by OSU, do you change it back? It's pretty close between those schools though.

[soccer10k]

Perhaps the more interesting argument concerns the Big 10 vs. the SEC. From top to bottom, which stacks up better? I've only looked at the top 10 in each league to have even numbers for comparison.

 

1. Ohio State

2. Michigan

3. Florida

4. LSU

5. Wisconsin

6. Arkansas

7. Auburn

8. Penn State

9. Tennessee

10.Georgia

11.Purdue

12.South Carolina

13.Kentucky

14.Alabama

15.Iowa

16.Minnesota

17.Indiana

18.Vandy

19.Michigan State

20.Northwestern

 

In 2006, at least, I believe the SEC was significantly better than the Big 10, despite perhaps being weaker at the top. I'm still not convinced that OSU, UM, and Wisconsin aren't the three best teams in this group. The middle and bottom of the B10 was just pretty awful this season, however.

 

Also, I agree that LSU is more talented, but it is hard to put them above possible national champion Florida.

 

You mean the same UM that got hammered by USC, that UM?

 

I would put Florida and LSU ahead of Michigan.

 

If Florida gets hammered by OSU, do you change it back? It's pretty close between those schools though.

 

Maybe, depends on the score and how bad they get beat. But as of right now, there is no way you can put Michigan ahead of Florida and LSU based on the games that have been played so far.

[TruffleShuffle]

Pat White is a far better passer than the Mustain/Dick combination and it's not even close.

 

Pat White in his freshman year was about as bad passing-wise as Mustain was this year, and you can't tell me that Arkansas doesn't play better defenses than West Virginia does.

[DCNashville]

 

Maybe, depends on the score and how bad they get beat. But as of right now, there is no way you can put Michigan ahead of Florida and LSU based on the games that have been played so far.

 

Sure you can---I believe OSU and USC are the two best teams in the country and UM lost to just those two teams. LSU lost to an above-average Auburn team and lost by two scores to Florida. Michigan beat ND just as bad as or worse than LSU beat them. I think there's no way you can put Michigan below LSU. Florida could possibly be ahead of Michigan, but I haven't seen a luckier team in the national title game since 2003 Ohio State. Florida squeaked by Vandy, Tennessee, and South Carolina and beat Florida State by a just a TD. Michigan had the better season, and Florida's big loss to OSU will indicate who the better team is.

[TruffleShuffle]

 

Maybe, depends on the score and how bad they get beat. But as of right now, there is no way you can put Michigan ahead of Florida and LSU based on the games that have been played so far.

 

Sure you can---I believe OSU and USC are the two best teams in the country and UM lost to just those two teams. LSU lost to an above-average Auburn team and lost by two scores to Florida. Michigan beat ND just as bad as or worse than LSU beat them. I think there's no way you can put Michigan below LSU. Florida could possibly be ahead of Michigan, but I haven't seen a luckier team in the national title game since 2003 Ohio State. Florida squeaked by Vandy, Tennessee, and South Carolina and beat Florida State by a just a TD. Michigan had the better season, and Florida's big loss to OSU will indicate who the better team is.

 

So to summarize:

 

-Michigan lost to "your" two best teams in the country.

-LSU is worse than Michigan because they lost to worse teams than Michigan lost to

-Your #2 team in the nation lost to teams with 4 losses and 6 losses, respectively.

-Michigan beat ND as bad or worse than LSU beat them, even though LSU won by one more point, and LSU outgained ND by 150 yards more than Michigan outgained them by.

 

:?:

[soccer10k]

Pat White is a far better passer than the Mustain/Dick combination and it's not even close.

 

Pat White in his freshman year was about as bad passing-wise as Mustain was this year, and you can't tell me that Arkansas doesn't play better defenses than West Virginia does.

 

We aren't talking about last year. We're talking about this year. This year White was a far better than Mustain and Dick, who you conveniently left off and is a sophomore and attempted just as many passes as Mustain did. This year, White had a far higher completion percentage, yards per attempt, more touchdowns, fewer picks and a way higher QB rating.

 

Even if we were looking at each's freshman year, White as a freshman was better than Mustain. White had a higher completion percentage, more yards per attempt and a higher QB rating.

[DCNashville]

 

Maybe, depends on the score and how bad they get beat. But as of right now, there is no way you can put Michigan ahead of Florida and LSU based on the games that have been played so far.

 

Sure you can---I believe OSU and USC are the two best teams in the country and UM lost to just those two teams. LSU lost to an above-average Auburn team and lost by two scores to Florida. Michigan beat ND just as bad as or worse than LSU beat them. I think there's no way you can put Michigan below LSU. Florida could possibly be ahead of Michigan, but I haven't seen a luckier team in the national title game since 2003 Ohio State. Florida squeaked by Vandy, Tennessee, and South Carolina and beat Florida State by a just a TD. Michigan had the better season, and Florida's big loss to OSU will indicate who the better team is.

 

So to summarize:

 

-Michigan lost to "your" two best teams in the country.

-LSU is worse than Michigan because they lost to worse teams than Michigan lost to

-Your #2 team in the nation lost to teams with 4 losses and 6 losses, respectively.

-Michigan beat ND as bad or worse than LSU beat them, even though LSU won by one more point, and LSU outgained ND by 150 yards more than Michigan outgained them by.

 

:?:

 

That's why I used words like "I believe." In watching both Michigan and LSU play ND, I thought Michigan was the better team. They dominated the entire game, LSU dominated a half. USC lost nailbiters in their games, LSU and Florida both lost by 10+ points in a loss.

 

Again, its all "my" opinion.

[soccer10k]

In their defense, Florida's loss was essentially by 4 points. Auburn returned a fumble for a touchdown as time expired and didn't attempt the extra point. The game was closer than the 10 point margin indicated.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pat White is a far better passer than the Mustain/Dick combination and it's not even close.

 

Pat White in his freshman year was about as bad passing-wise as Mustain was this year, and you can't tell me that Arkansas doesn't play better defenses than West Virginia does.

 

We aren't talking about last year. We're talking about this year. This year White was a far better than Mustain and Dick, who you conveniently left off and is a sophomore and attempted just as many passes as Mustain did. This year, White had a far higher completion percentage, yards per attempt, more touchdowns, fewer picks and a way higher QB rating.

 

Even if we were looking at each's freshman year, White as a freshman was better than Mustain. White had a higher completion percentage, more yards per attempt and a higher QB rating.

 

Arkansas played 14 games, 6 of them against teams in the top 20. West Virginia played 13 games, 2 of them against teams in the top 25(and Louisville isn't exactly known for it's defense). There's clearly a strength of schedule component to consider with the difference in the quality of the two teams' opponents.

[soccer10k]

Pat White is a far better passer than the Mustain/Dick combination and it's not even close.

 

Pat White in his freshman year was about as bad passing-wise as Mustain was this year, and you can't tell me that Arkansas doesn't play better defenses than West Virginia does.

 

We aren't talking about last year. We're talking about this year. This year White was a far better than Mustain and Dick, who you conveniently left off and is a sophomore and attempted just as many passes as Mustain did. This year, White had a far higher completion percentage, yards per attempt, more touchdowns, fewer picks and a way higher QB rating.

 

Even if we were looking at each's freshman year, White as a freshman was better than Mustain. White had a higher completion percentage, more yards per attempt and a higher QB rating.

 

Arkansas played 14 games, 6 of them against teams in the top 20. West Virginia played 13 games, 2 of them against teams in the top 25(and Louisville isn't exactly known for it's defense). There's clearly a strength of schedule component to consider with the difference in the quality of the two teams' opponents.

 

If I had a pick of one of the three quarterbacks I would pick White and wouldn't think twice.

[CuseCubFan69]

Pat White is a far better passer than the Mustain/Dick combination and it's not even close.

 

Pat White in his freshman year was about as bad passing-wise as Mustain was this year, and you can't tell me that Arkansas doesn't play better defenses than West Virginia does.

 

We aren't talking about last year. We're talking about this year. This year White was a far better than Mustain and Dick, who you conveniently left off and is a sophomore and attempted just as many passes as Mustain did. This year, White had a far higher completion percentage, yards per attempt, more touchdowns, fewer picks and a way higher QB rating.

 

Even if we were looking at each's freshman year, White as a freshman was better than Mustain. White had a higher completion percentage, more yards per attempt and a higher QB rating.

 

Arkansas played 14 games, 6 of them against teams in the top 20. West Virginia played 13 games, 2 of them against teams in the top 25(and Louisville isn't exactly known for it's defense). There's clearly a strength of schedule component to consider with the difference in the quality of the two teams' opponents.

 

Again, since the SEC has 12 teams and they do not play anyone out of conference this "top 25" thing is built on nothing. Read what I wrote about non-conference schedule, the top 3 SEC teams played 1 Bowl team...1. If Pitt, Cincy and SFlorida played AA teams out of conference they could have gone undefeated too and had a shot at being in the top 25. How did Arkansas do against USC? There is a reason these teams don't play anyone.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pat White is a far better passer than the Mustain/Dick combination and it's not even close.

 

Pat White in his freshman year was about as bad passing-wise as Mustain was this year, and you can't tell me that Arkansas doesn't play better defenses than West Virginia does.

 

We aren't talking about last year. We're talking about this year. This year White was a far better than Mustain and Dick, who you conveniently left off and is a sophomore and attempted just as many passes as Mustain did. This year, White had a far higher completion percentage, yards per attempt, more touchdowns, fewer picks and a way higher QB rating.

 

Even if we were looking at each's freshman year, White as a freshman was better than Mustain. White had a higher completion percentage, more yards per attempt and a higher QB rating.

 

Arkansas played 14 games, 6 of them against teams in the top 20. West Virginia played 13 games, 2 of them against teams in the top 25(and Louisville isn't exactly known for it's defense). There's clearly a strength of schedule component to consider with the difference in the quality of the two teams' opponents.

 

Again, since the SEC has 12 teams and they do not play anyone out of conference this "top 25" thing is built on nothing. Read what I wrote about non-conference schedule, the top 3 SEC teams played 1 Bowl team...1. If Pitt, Cincy and SFlorida played AA teams out of conference they could have gone undefeated too and had a shot at being in the top 25. How did Arkansas do against USC? There is a reason these teams don't play anyone.

 

They played USC(dominated a BCS bowl) out of conference, then Florida, LSU(dominated a BCS bowl), Tennessee(lost a close bowl game against a similar B10 team), Auburn(won a close bowl game against a similar B12 team), and Wisconsin(who beat Arkansas in a close bowl game). This is a tired argument, you're wrong.

 

And Pitt, Cincy, and South Florida are not on the same plane as Auburn or Tennessee, not even if they played a joke non-conference schedule(oh wait, Pitt and USF already did). Even attempting to make this argument makes you appear like you can't be rational about the Big East.

[CuseCubFan69]

Pat White is a far better passer than the Mustain/Dick combination and it's not even close.

 

Pat White in his freshman year was about as bad passing-wise as Mustain was this year, and you can't tell me that Arkansas doesn't play better defenses than West Virginia does.

 

We aren't talking about last year. We're talking about this year. This year White was a far better than Mustain and Dick, who you conveniently left off and is a sophomore and attempted just as many passes as Mustain did. This year, White had a far higher completion percentage, yards per attempt, more touchdowns, fewer picks and a way higher QB rating.

 

Even if we were looking at each's freshman year, White as a freshman was better than Mustain. White had a higher completion percentage, more yards per attempt and a higher QB rating.

 

Arkansas played 14 games, 6 of them against teams in the top 20. West Virginia played 13 games, 2 of them against teams in the top 25(and Louisville isn't exactly known for it's defense). There's clearly a strength of schedule component to consider with the difference in the quality of the two teams' opponents.

 

Again, since the SEC has 12 teams and they do not play anyone out of conference this "top 25" thing is built on nothing. Read what I wrote about non-conference schedule, the top 3 SEC teams played 1 Bowl team...1. If Pitt, Cincy and SFlorida played AA teams out of conference they could have gone undefeated too and had a shot at being in the top 25. How did Arkansas do against USC? There is a reason these teams don't play anyone.

 

They played USC(dominated a BCS bowl) out of conference, then Florida, LSU(dominated a BCS bowl), Tennessee(lost a close bowl game against a similar B10 team), Auburn(won a close bowl game against a similar B12 team), and Wisconsin(who beat Arkansas in a close bowl game). This is a tired argument, you're wrong.

 

And Pitt, Cincy, and South Florida are not on the same plane as Auburn or Tennessee, not even if they played a joke non-conference schedule(oh wait, Pitt and USF already did). Even attempting to make this argument makes you appear like you can't be rational about the Big East.

 

You have to read the content of what was written. You don't seem to be rational, listen...you mentioned top 25. OK, I'll write it again, Top 25. If Pitt....SFlorida.....Cincy play crappy AA teams they would undefeated and be in the Top 25 like Missouri was and the statement was that a SEC team played 6 bowl teams (ALL WITHIN IT'S OWN CONFERENCE). That was the rational.

 

We are not talking about the bowl games at this point as I was talking about the regular season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

They played USC(dominated a BCS bowl) out of conference, then Florida, LSU(dominated a BCS bowl), Tennessee(lost a close bowl game against a similar B10 team), Auburn(won a close bowl game against a similar B12 team), and Wisconsin(who beat Arkansas in a close bowl game). This is a tired argument, you're wrong.

 

And Pitt, Cincy, and South Florida are not on the same plane as Auburn or Tennessee, not even if they played a joke non-conference schedule(oh wait, Pitt and USF already did). Even attempting to make this argument makes you appear like you can't be rational about the Big East.

 

You have to read the content of what was written. You don't seem to be rational, listen...you mentioned top 25. OK, I'll write it again, Top 25. If Pitt....SFlorida.....Cincy play crappy AA teams they would undefeated and be in the Top 25 like Missouri was and the statement was that a SEC team played 6 bowl teams (ALL WITHIN IT'S OWN CONFERENCE). That was the rational.

 

We are not talking about the bowl games at this point as I was talking about the regular season.

 

Did you read the post? 2 of the 6 teams weren't even from the SEC. And like I just said, USF and Pitt both played terrible non-cons, losing to awful Kansas and awful Michigan State respectively. Cincinnati might've been able to crack the Top 25 had they not lost to Pitt at home, and yesterday they barely beat the 3rd best team in the MAC in their bowl game. They simply were not as good as Auburn or Tennessee.

[CuseCubFan69]

They played USC(dominated a BCS bowl) out of conference, then Florida, LSU(dominated a BCS bowl), Tennessee(lost a close bowl game against a similar B10 team), Auburn(won a close bowl game against a similar B12 team), and Wisconsin(who beat Arkansas in a close bowl game). This is a tired argument, you're wrong.

 

And Pitt, Cincy, and South Florida are not on the same plane as Auburn or Tennessee, not even if they played a joke non-conference schedule(oh wait, Pitt and USF already did). Even attempting to make this argument makes you appear like you can't be rational about the Big East.

 

You have to read the content of what was written. You don't seem to be rational, listen...you mentioned top 25. OK, I'll write it again, Top 25. If Pitt....SFlorida.....Cincy play crappy AA teams they would undefeated and be in the Top 25 like Missouri was and the statement was that a SEC team played 6 bowl teams (ALL WITHIN IT'S OWN CONFERENCE). That was the rational.

 

We are not talking about the bowl games at this point as I was talking about the regular season.

 

Did you read the post? 2 of the 6 teams weren't even from the SEC. And like I just said, USF and Pitt both played terrible non-cons, losing to awful Kansas and awful Michigan State respectively. Cincinnati might've been able to crack the Top 25 had they not lost to Pitt at home, and yesterday they barely beat the 3rd best team in the MAC in their bowl game. They simply were not as good as Auburn or Tennessee.

 

So Kansas and Michigan St are crappy AA teams now? Which of these powerhouses Utah St, SE Mo St, Lou-Monroe that Arkansas played made a bowl to make it 2?

[TruffleShuffle]

So Kansas and Michigan St are crappy AA teams now? Which of these powerhouses Utah St, SE Mo St, Lou-Monroe that Arkansas played made a bowl to make it 2?

 

So which non-conference schedule are you more impressed by?

 

vs Virginia

vs Michigan State

vs Toledo

vs Citadel

@ UCF

 

or

 

vs USC

vs Utah St

vs SE Missouri St

vs UL-Monroe

 

:?:

[CuseCubFan69]

So Kansas and Michigan St are crappy AA teams now? Which of these powerhouses Utah St, SE Mo St, Lou-Monroe that Arkansas played made a bowl to make it 2?

 

So which non-conference schedule are you more impressed by?

 

vs Virginia

vs Michigan State

vs Toledo

vs Citadel

@ UCF

 

or

 

vs USC

vs Utah St

vs SE Missouri St

vs UL-Monroe

 

:?:

 

The top one as at least 3 of them regularly go to bowls. Let's look at Cincy's:

 

E. Kentucky

Ohio State

Virginia Tech

Miami (O)

Akron

[TruffleShuffle]

The top one as at least 3 of them regularly go to bowls.

 

Michigan State regularly goes to bowls?!?!? And Toledo usually goes to a bowl because they play in the MAC and finish 7-5 or 8-4 every year. I'm more impressed by the team that plays one really hard game than 3 pretend-hard games and 2 duds.