2007 Hall of Fame Ballots: Gwynn & Ripken Inducted

[rocket]

Not that he'd get in, but it's pretty sad that no one even mentions this guy:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clarkwi02.shtml

 

He's not even on the ballot. That seems wrong.

 

He's basically Mark Grace sans Gold Gloves. He did have THE prettiest swing though I think I've seen in the MLB. Griffey is a close second.

 

And Mark Grace is better than a lot of people on the ballot.

[OleMissCub]

Not that he'd get in, but it's pretty sad that no one even mentions this guy:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clarkwi02.shtml

 

He's not even on the ballot. That seems wrong.

 

He's basically Mark Grace sans Gold Gloves. He did have THE prettiest swing though I think I've seen in the MLB. Griffey is a close second.

 

And Mark Grace is better than a lot of people on the ballot.

 

Absolutely...I still have hopes that one day Gracie will get in via the Veterans Committee

[Bruce Miles]

the HoF voting is a sham. 75% should only be mandatory if they make it mandatory for all eligible vpoters to actually cast ballots. plus we know that the voters are living HoF members, many of whom hold personal grudges, don't like the "new way of baseball", or purposely don't vote for players at their own position as to not somehow dilute their own greatness (coughjoemorgancough)

 

Living Hall of Fame members vote only for those on the Veterans Committee ballot. They do not vote in this phase of Hall of Fame balloting. This phase is reserved for BBWAA members who have been members for at least 10 years.

 

ah, my mistake. But is it the BBWAA or the Veteran's vote that is notorious for voters not sending ballots?

 

It seems to me it was the "old" (no pun intended) Veterans Committee that had trouble getting its full complement to vote. Before the system was revamped, the Veterans Committee was made up of a panel appointed by the Hall of Fame. Some of the older members at times could not get to the meeting.

The new Veterans Committee has higher voter turnout as does the BBWAA.

 

and the system allows you to vote for as many or as few players as you would like, correct?

 

You may vote for as few as zero players and up to as many as 10.

 

Do you ever publish the list of whom you vote, Bruce?

 

Yes.

[Rob]

the HoF voting is a sham. 75% should only be mandatory if they make it mandatory for all eligible vpoters to actually cast ballots. plus we know that the voters are living HoF members, many of whom hold personal grudges, don't like the "new way of baseball", or purposely don't vote for players at their own position as to not somehow dilute their own greatness (coughjoemorgancough)

 

Living Hall of Fame members vote only for those on the Veterans Committee ballot. They do not vote in this phase of Hall of Fame balloting. This phase is reserved for BBWAA members who have been members for at least 10 years.

 

ah, my mistake. But is it the BBWAA or the Veteran's vote that is notorious for voters not sending ballots?

 

It seems to me it was the "old" (no pun intended) Veterans Committee that had trouble getting its full complement to vote. Before the system was revamped, the Veterans Committee was made up of a panel appointed by the Hall of Fame. Some of the older members at times could not get to the meeting.

The new Veterans Committee has higher voter turnout as does the BBWAA.

 

and the system allows you to vote for as many or as few players as you would like, correct?

 

You may vote for as few as zero players and up to as many as 10.

 

Do you ever publish the list of whom you vote, Bruce?

 

Yes.

 

Do you ever publish it in Spanish?

[thedaymen]

Who I would vote for bolded, who I think will get in italicsed.

 

Harold Baines, Albert Belle, Dante Bichette, Bert Blyleven, Bobby Bonilla, Scott Brosius, Jay Buhner, Ken Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Dave Concepcion, Eric Davis, Andre Dawson, Tony Fernandez, Steve Garvey, Rich "Goose" Gossage, Tony Gwynn, Orel Hershiser, Tommy John, Wally Joyner, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Paul O'Neill, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Cal Ripken Jr., Bret Saberhagen, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Devon White, Bobby Witt.

 

I don't feel that either belong in the HOF, but I'm curious as to how you can vote for Jack Morris while not voting for Tommy John.

 

While Dawson and Murphy were very good players, I think they both fall a little short of being considered HOF-worthy.

 

Morris over Tommy John was an editing error. I think I can only vote for 10 people, correct?

 

I notice that almost none of the great power hitters of the 1980's will make the Hall...Mike Scmidt...thats pretty much it. I think Rice, Andre, and Murph belong as well.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Ken Rosenthal will not vote for McGwire.

[OleMissCub]

Ken Rosenthal will not vote for McGwire.

 

Good for him!

[cl smooth]

anyone notice the flub on the front page of cubs.com where it says that dawson came to the cubs via a trade?

 

seriously...who writes this stuff?!

[fromthestretch]

Ken Rosenthal will not vote for McGwire.

 

Good for him!

 

I respect your reasons for not thinking he is HOF worthy more than I do Rosenthal's. At least you're basing it on what he did (or didn't do) on the field, whereas it appears Rosenthal simply won't vote for him because there's a chance he took an illegal substance, whether there's proof or not. Hell, he even admits that andro was legal when McGwire was "caught" using it.

[Derwood]

anyone notice the flub on the front page of cubs.com where it says that dawson came to the cubs via a trade?

 

seriously...who writes this stuff?!

 

Carrie Muskat?

[Bruce Miles]

anyone notice the flub on the front page of cubs.com where it says that dawson came to the cubs via a trade?

 

seriously...who writes this stuff?!

 

Carrie Muskat?

 

In defense of Carrie, no, she does not write photo captions. That's a desk error.

[Guest]

anyone notice the flub on the front page of cubs.com where it says that dawson came to the cubs via a trade?

 

seriously...who writes this stuff?!

 

Carrie Muskat?

 

In defense of Carrie, no, she does not write photo captions. That's a desk error.

 

You don't have time to address all her errors Bruce. And where did they dig up these people asking questions this month?

[NewUserName]

I wanted to comment of several posts so here goes.

 

1. Tim I really like Trammel also and he easily would make it if not for injuries. I think the modern SS may keep him out.

 

2. Tony Gwynn was fast. He probably could have hit 20 hrs a year also if he wanted to lower his BA.

 

3. I dont post this in defense of McGwire or any other of the possible steriod users. In Sandy Koufax's book it is mentioned that he took a prescription pain killer that is now illegal and a banned substance in baseball. He took it just to pitch. I am sure that he was not the only guy on these painkillers in his time. This is clearly a performance enhancing drug. Do we need to weed out all of this kind of stuff also.

[bhogg]

It's a crime tha will clark is not on the ballots.

 

He's a hall of famer in my book (granted, it's a very liberal book)

 

 

I also can't see why Trammell isn't a HOFer.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Sweet, Scott Brosius and Dante Bichette!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Ken Rosenthal will not vote for McGwire.

 

And neither will I.

[OleMissCub]

Sweet, Scott Brosius and Dante Bichette!

 

How on god's green earth are they on the ballot but Will Clark isn't?? He was 4 times the player both of those guys were.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Sweet, Scott Brosius and Dante Bichette!

 

How on god's green earth are they on the ballot but Will Clark isn't?? He was 4 times the player both of those guys were.

 

Will didn't get enough votes last year to stay on the ballot. The other 2 are making their 1st appearance.

[OleMissCub]

Anyone think Barry Larkin has a shot?

 

.295 lifetime, 2300 hits, 380 SB, NL MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, 12-time allstar.

 

Not sure, but he's certainly more qualified than alot of the scrubs we see put on those lists.

[cbbryan]

Anyone think Barry Larkin has a shot?

 

.295 lifetime, 2300 hits, 380 SB, NL MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, 12-time allstar.

 

Not sure, but he's certainly more qualified than alot of the scrubs we see put on those lists.

 

I think he may have a shot. Ozzie made it for God's sake!

[TruffleShuffle]

Anyone think Barry Larkin has a shot?

 

.295 lifetime, 2300 hits, 380 SB, NL MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, 12-time allstar.

 

Not sure, but he's certainly more qualified than alot of the scrubs we see put on those lists.

 

I think he may have a shot. Ozzie made it for God's sake!

 

Pulled this data from a hardball times article. Here are SS from the last 30 years. Larkin has the third largest difference between his OPS and the league SS OPS

 

                     OPS       SS OPS       DIFF*
Alex Rodriguez       .963        .735        31.0%
Nomar Garciaparra    .919        .736        24.9%
BARRY LARKIN         .815        .678        20.2%
Cal Ripken Jr.       .798        .675        18.2%
Robin Yount          .757        .641        18.1%
Alan Trammell        .767        .665        15.3%
Derek Jeter          .848        .737        15.1%
Miguel Tejada        .807        .744         8.5%
Dave Concepcion      .679        .629         7.9%
Ozzie Smith          .666        .648         2.8%

 

And here's Runs Created Above Position - basically, how many more runs a guy produced over the average SS during his playing career:

 

                          RCAP
Honus Wagner                926   
Arky Vaughan                591   
BARRY LARKIN                488   
Alex Rodriguez              474   
Joe Cronin                  425   
Cal Ripken                  400   
Luke Appling                366   
Alan Trammell               365   
Derek Jeter                 328   
Ernie Banks                 324

 

 

He's Cal Ripken without the consecutive games streak. He made 12 All-Star games, won 9 silver sluggers, 3 gold gloves, an MVP, and a world series ring - so he even has lots of the shiny things that voters like. If Larkin doesn't get voted into the Hall, then the process is a complete joke - well, even moreso than it already is.

[fromthestretch]

Anyone think Barry Larkin has a shot?

 

.295 lifetime, 2300 hits, 380 SB, NL MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, 12-time allstar.

 

Not sure, but he's certainly more qualified than alot of the scrubs we see put on those lists.

 

My only problem with Larkin is his durability. He only played 140 or more games in seven of his 19 seasons. Other than that, he was a great baserunner, a very good offensive shortstop, and played the position very well defensively.

 

I think he's HOF worthy.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Larkin would get my vote as would Tim Raines.

 

I think both may struggle to get in which is a shame.

[bhogg]

Barry Larkin is a no brainer to me.

[abuck1220]

is schilling a hall of famer?