Week 13: Bears vs. Minnesota - Sunday, Dec 3, 12 pm CST

[Soriano12]

If the Vikings have a quarterback even close to league average, they run away with that game yesterday.

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: funny stuff :lol: :lol:

[hawkeyecub]

If the Vikings have a quarterback even close to league average, they run away with that game yesterday.

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: funny stuff :lol: :lol:

 

Is it?

 

How often do teams win games when their offense puts up 107 total yards and turns the ball over 5 times?

[Banedon]

If the Vikings have a quarterback even close to league average, they run away with that game yesterday.

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: funny stuff :lol: :lol:

 

Is it?

 

How often do teams win games when their offense puts up 107 total yards and turns the ball over 5 times?

 

The "If" game is always going to result in these kind of arguments, because everyone can play it. If the Bears have a quarterback close to league average, what happens then? If If If...

[WindyCity]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20061203/capt.258b29ebceb84e35bb96ee12ec800cff.aptopix_vikings_bears_football_cxb103.jpg

 

:D

[Soul]

If the Vikings have a quarterback even close to league average, they run away with that game yesterday.

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: funny stuff :lol: :lol:

 

Is it?

 

How often do teams win games when their offense puts up 107 total yards and turns the ball over 5 times?

 

The "If" game is always going to result in these kind of arguments, because everyone can play it. If the Bears have a quarterback close to league average, what happens then? If If If...

 

Yep yep.

[goonys evil twin]

No Duggan was not about to get put in the hospital. Get out a tape or DVR recording and watch that play again. He was wide open and had 5 yards of room.

 

You are delusional. He would have been lucky to take one step forward before losing his head.

 

False.

 

I have it on DVR and just slowed it down right now. Duggan is at the 34 yard line when the ball bounces off his pads. Briggs is 6 yards behind him, just across the 40. Vasher is at the 36, but about 7-8 yards toward the sideline. The safety is all the way upfield at the 25.

He had 5 yards before he got hit by anyone and I doubt Vasher was going to knock him out, nor was Briggs when he was chasing him from behind.

 

Do you think players instantaneously make catches and turn up field? Do you not realize how notoriously effective the Bears closing speed is? Seriously, you're in dream land. Your team got the crap kicked out of it by a team with a QB playing like a high schooler.

[Chocolate Milk]

Amazing that the Bears have the best Passing Defense in the NFL by a wide margin considering all it takes is an average QB to shread them.

[hawkeyecub]

No Duggan was not about to get put in the hospital. Get out a tape or DVR recording and watch that play again. He was wide open and had 5 yards of room.

 

You are delusional. He would have been lucky to take one step forward before losing his head.

 

False.

 

I have it on DVR and just slowed it down right now. Duggan is at the 34 yard line when the ball bounces off his pads. Briggs is 6 yards behind him, just across the 40. Vasher is at the 36, but about 7-8 yards toward the sideline. The safety is all the way upfield at the 25.

He had 5 yards before he got hit by anyone and I doubt Vasher was going to knock him out, nor was Briggs when he was chasing him from behind.

 

Do you think players instantaneously make catches and turn up field? Do you not realize how notoriously effective the Bears closing speed is? Seriously, you're in dream land. Your team got the crap kicked out of it by a team with a QB playing like a high schooler.

 

Oh they did? I had absolutely no idea. Wow, that really stung deep. That's a zinger.

 

You said he would have been lucky to take one step before losing his head. That's totally wrong and has nothing to do with the Bears beating the Vikings. No I don't think players instantaneously make catches and turn up field. I do think they can get up field rather quickly when they're ALREADY turning their shoulders as the ball clanks off their pads.

Do you think players instantaneously turn and get 7 yards up field while hitting the reciever in one motion? Apparently.

I guess I didn't know Nathan Vasher could cover 7 yards in one step from a guy who was already turning his shoulders upfield.

I didn't know Lance Briggs was going to cover 6 yards in one step and knock his head off from behind.

I didn't know their safety was going to cover 10 yards with a single step and knock his head off either.

 

You're right, I really underestimated the "notoriously effective" closing speed of the Bears. Even though I've never seen any of those above things happen in my life of playing and watching football, I just haven't been watching these superhuman Bears. Foolish me.

[Chocolate Milk]

No Duggan was not about to get put in the hospital. Get out a tape or DVR recording and watch that play again. He was wide open and had 5 yards of room.

 

You are delusional. He would have been lucky to take one step forward before losing his head.

 

False.

 

I have it on DVR and just slowed it down right now. Duggan is at the 34 yard line when the ball bounces off his pads. Briggs is 6 yards behind him, just across the 40. Vasher is at the 36, but about 7-8 yards toward the sideline. The safety is all the way upfield at the 25.

He had 5 yards before he got hit by anyone and I doubt Vasher was going to knock him out, nor was Briggs when he was chasing him from behind.

 

Do you think players instantaneously make catches and turn up field? Do you not realize how notoriously effective the Bears closing speed is? Seriously, you're in dream land. Your team got the crap kicked out of it by a team with a QB playing like a high schooler.

 

Oh they did? I had absolutely no idea. Wow, that really stung deep. That's a zinger.

 

You said he would have been lucky to take one step before losing his head. That's totally wrong and has nothing to do with the Bears beating the Vikings. No I don't think players instantaneously make catches and turn up field. I do think they can get up field rather quickly when they're ALREADY turning their shoulders as the ball clanks off their pads.

Do you think players instantaneously turn and get 7 yards up field while hitting the reciever in one motion? Apparently.

I guess I didn't know Nathan Vasher could cover 7 yards in one step from a guy who was already turning his shoulders upfield.

I didn't know Lance Briggs was going to cover 6 yards in one step and knock his head off from behind.

I didn't know their safety was going to cover 10 yards with a single step and knock his head off either.

 

You're right, I really underestimated the "notoriously effective" closing speed of the Bears. Even though I've never seen any of those above things happen in my life of playing and watching football, I just haven't been watching these superhuman Bears. Foolish me.

 

Who cares about this play? You're clinging to it like it actually means something.

[hawkeyecub]

Amazing that the Bears have the best Passing Defense in the NFL by a wide margin considering all it takes is an average QB to shread them.

 

LOL, yep that's EXACTLY what I said. Excellent reading comprehension!

 

No an average QB wouldn't have shredded them. But an average QB would find a way to win a game when his defense allows 107 total (yes total) yards AND 5 turnovers.

That's why this was the first time that's ever happened in the history of the NFL. Hell the Vikings would have been better off running on 1st and 2nd down and punting everytime on 3rd down.

 

For everyone saying that you could say "If the Bears had an average QB they would have blown the Vikings out", well yeah of course they would have. I'm well aware of that.

That's also the reason why an otherwise great team will have an extremely difficult time winning a game in the playoffs.

[hawkeyecub]

Who cares about this play? You're clinging to it like it actually means something.

 

Once again, you completely miss the point.

 

No, it doesn't mean anything. Goony said he would have been blown up after taking one step. One look at the tape shows that's false. I'm merely clarifying that.

[Chocolate Milk]

No an average QB wouldn't have shredded them. But an average QB would find a way to win a game when his defense allows 107 total (yes total) yards AND 5 turnovers.

 

Find a way to win, now? It used to be "run away with the game."

 

You are missing that everyone has made in this thread. Quarterbacks don't play average against the Bears. They don't. The Bears have the best Passing D in the NFL by a wide margin. They have held opposing QB's to a 54 QB rating. They have the #1 DVOA against the pass. Opposing QB's play terribly against the Bears because they are good. Do you get it yet? You're acting like an average QB preformance is easy to acheive against the Bears. It's not. It wasn't the Vikings making the QB look bad, it was the Bears. It's been happening all year.

 

You say if you had average production out of the QB position you would have "run away with the game". Well whoop de do! If my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle! Almost no one has had average QB production against the Bears. What does that tell you? The Bears don't ALLOW average QB production and that's why you didn't win the game.

 

You're whole sour grapes schtick here is pretty sad.

[Banedon]

My question is how can you rave about the Vikings pass defense in this game and say they shut down Grossman, but then turn around and say the Bears D wasn't good, because it was Johnson being bad?

 

Ever think maybe Grossman was just being REALLY bad, and maybe the Vikes didn't play very good D? This are arguments that frankly are pointless, because they're all in the eye of the beholder.

 

Vikings and Bears fans are not going to agree on this.

[hawkeyecub]

No an average QB wouldn't have shredded them. But an average QB would find a way to win a game when his defense allows 107 total (yes total) yards AND 5 turnovers.

 

Find a way to win, now? It used to be "run away with the game."

 

You are missing that everyone has made in this thread. Quarterbacks don't play average against the Bears. They don't. The Bears have the best Passing D in the NFL by a wide margin. They have held opposing QB's to a 54 QB rating. They have the #1 DVOA against the pass. Opposing QB's play terribly against the Bears because they are good. Do you get it yet? You're acting like an average QB preformance is easy to acheive against the Bears. It's not. It wasn't the Vikings making the QB look bad, it was the Bears. It's been happening all year.

 

You say if you had average production out of the QB position you would have "run away with the game". Well whoop de do! If my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle! Almost no one has had average QB production against the Bears. What does that tell you? The Bears don't ALLOW average QB production and that's why you didn't win the game.

 

You're whole sour grapes schtick here is pretty sad.

 

Correct and a 54 QB rating would have won this game. That's my point. I guess I'll re-word my statement from an average QB to a typical performance of an opposing QB against the Bears. If they average giving up a 54 rating, then it's not out of the ordinary and that kind of performance would have won the game.

 

How many times have I said in this thread that the Bears defense is as good as there is and they're a very good team? That doesn't change the fact that a team has never won a game in NFL history where they gain less than 110 and turn it over 5 times. Never.

The Bears average giving up a 54 QB rating? Well anything close to that would have won this game, that's my point.

 

Sour grapes? Yeah that's it.

[hawkeyecub]

My question is how can you rave about the Vikings pass defense in this game and say they shut down Grossman, but then turn around and say the Bears D wasn't good, because it was Johnson being bad?

 

Ever think maybe Grossman was just being REALLY bad, and maybe the Vikes didn't play very good D? This are arguments that frankly are pointless, because they're all in the eye of the beholder.

 

Vikings and Bears fans are not going to agree on this.

 

That's exactly what I was getting at Banedon. I didn't rave about the Vikings pass defense and never once said they shut down Grossman. I just posted the numbers from the game and asked the question.

 

The reason I posed that question about which defense performed better was to see how Bears fans rationalized it. I assumed they would just say that Grossman played horribly and not say it was a result of good defense by the Vikings.

While the Bears defense is MUCH better against the pass this year, Grossman and Johnson are almost identical in QB rating and Grossman has been more prone to the INT.

 

Both QB's played horribly on Sunday. I think the turnovers on both sides were more a result of awful QB play than anything the defense was doing particularly well. That's it.

[Chocolate Milk]

8-) Edited December 5, 2006 by Chocolate Milk

[Chocolate Milk]

I'm going to drop this because it really doesn't matter, no one has any way to prove they are right, and I don't really care.

[BigbadB]

Bears 23

Vikings 13

 

I rest my case.

 

Bears 10-2

Vikings 5-7

 

I further rest my case.