ESPN 1000 - Cubs are going after Schmidt next

[baseball7897]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

 

he threw over 200 innings last year.

 

Shmidt is a fastball/change up pitcher. Although I don't like the abuse he's taken over the last several years those types of pitchers are very durable.

 

BTW where does the "decrease in stride length and decrease in velocity" come from? I mean on what information is this observation based?

 

Schmidt used to throw mid 90's. He was down to 88-90mph at the end of this season. Now, a variety of things can be the reasoning for this. Over worked is the main reasoning, however. Over worked usually means the pitcher becomes tired, and when the pitcher is tired his mechanics begin to take a nose dive. Which means he is more favorable for a arm injury(Kerry Wood). If a pitcher is losing length on his stride, it usually means his shoulder cannot keep up with the length the pitcher is taking. Schmdit is known for his absolutely insane length on his stride. Probably the longest in the game today. When he has to shorten that stride, it possibly means his shoulder cannot extend out to the point it used too.

[Rob]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

 

he threw over 200 innings last year.

 

Shmidt is a fastball/change up pitcher. Although I don't like the abuse he's taken over the last several years those types of pitchers are very durable.

 

BTW where does the "decrease in stride length and decrease in velocity" come from? I mean on what information is this observation based?

 

Schmidt used to throw mid 90's. He was down to 88-90mph at the end of this season. Now, a variety of things can be the reasoning for this. Over worked is the main reasoning, however. Over worked usually means the pitcher becomes tired, and when the pitcher is tired his mechanics begin to take a nose dive. Which means he is more favorable for a arm injury(Kerry Wood). If a pitcher is losing length on his stride, it usually means his shoulder cannot keep up with the length the pitcher is taking. Schmdit is known for his absolutely insane length on his stride. Probably the longest in the game today. When he has to shorten that stride, it possibly means his shoulder cannot extend out to the point it used too.

 

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

[CubsWin]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

 

he threw over 200 innings last year.

 

Shmidt is a fastball/change up pitcher. Although I don't like the abuse he's taken over the last several years those types of pitchers are very durable.

 

BTW where does the "decrease in stride length and decrease in velocity" come from? I mean on what information is this observation based?

 

Schmidt used to throw mid 90's. He was down to 88-90mph at the end of this season. Now, a variety of things can be the reasoning for this. Over worked is the main reasoning, however. Over worked usually means the pitcher becomes tired, and when the pitcher is tired his mechanics begin to take a nose dive. Which means he is more favorable for a arm injury(Kerry Wood). If a pitcher is losing length on his stride, it usually means his shoulder cannot keep up with the length the pitcher is taking. Schmdit is known for his absolutely insane length on his stride. Probably the longest in the game today. When he has to shorten that stride, it possibly means his shoulder cannot extend out to the point it used too.

Is there reason to think that Schmidt's stride length is shortening or are you just talking hypothetically?

[CubinNY]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

 

he threw over 200 innings last year.

 

Shmidt is a fastball/change up pitcher. Although I don't like the abuse he's taken over the last several years those types of pitchers are very durable.

 

BTW where does the "decrease in stride length and decrease in velocity" come from? I mean on what information is this observation based?

 

Schmidt used to throw mid 90's. He was down to 88-90mph at the end of this season. Now, a variety of things can be the reasoning for this. Over worked is the main reasoning, however. Over worked usually means the pitcher becomes tired, and when the pitcher is tired his mechanics begin to take a nose dive. Which means he is more favorable for a arm injury(Kerry Wood). If a pitcher is losing length on his stride, it usually means his shoulder cannot keep up with the length the pitcher is taking. Schmdit is known for his absolutely insane length on his stride. Probably the longest in the game today. When he has to shorten that stride, it possibly means his shoulder cannot extend out to the point it used too.

He had an ERA+ of over 100 last year and pitched over 200 innings.

 

If he was hurt or is hurt he certianly didn't show it last year.

 

I really have a hard time discovering on what facts you base your opinions.

 

Just take a look at his career numbers.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schmija01.shtml

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

How many Schmidt starts did you see last season?

 

The ones he made against the Cubs. Not to mention the video anyalsis I have on him from a pitching program.

 

So you're basing your assessment on Schmidt on two starts, one in May and one at the beginning of September. The first of which, he pitched 9 IP, allowing 1 run on five hits while walking none; and the second of which he pitched 7 IP, allowing 3 runs on 8 hits while walking two.

 

Yep. Sounds like trouble to me. [/sarcasm]

[baseball7897]

Yeah, you should. The loss in velocity and the decreasing length of his stride don't bother you? Or the decrease in K's?

 

No, not really. I think his arm will be fine since he hardly throws any breaking balls, and he kept the ball down last year. He strikes me as a good pitcher - not the kind of guy who falls apart when he loses a tick or two off his fastball.

 

Well it should. A decrease in velocity and the decreasing length of a pitchers stride are two of the biggest keys to a shoulder injury.

 

throwing less hard makes a pitcher hurt his shoulder? interesting.

 

no. It's a symptom of shoulder injury.

 

he threw over 200 innings last year.

 

Shmidt is a fastball/change up pitcher. Although I don't like the abuse he's taken over the last several years those types of pitchers are very durable.

 

BTW where does the "decrease in stride length and decrease in velocity" come from? I mean on what information is this observation based?

 

Schmidt used to throw mid 90's. He was down to 88-90mph at the end of this season. Now, a variety of things can be the reasoning for this. Over worked is the main reasoning, however. Over worked usually means the pitcher becomes tired, and when the pitcher is tired his mechanics begin to take a nose dive. Which means he is more favorable for a arm injury(Kerry Wood). If a pitcher is losing length on his stride, it usually means his shoulder cannot keep up with the length the pitcher is taking. Schmdit is known for his absolutely insane length on his stride. Probably the longest in the game today. When he has to shorten that stride, it possibly means his shoulder cannot extend out to the point it used too.

 

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

 

Throwing across his body is probably the main reasoning for his arm injuries.

[UK1679666180]

Is there reason to think that Schmidt's stride length is shortening or are you just talking hypothetically?

 

He's had a history of groin problems, if it flares up from all the torque, he can compensate by shortening his stride. He might be up in the zone that day and trying to get down the ball down.

 

It could be fatigue but, Schmidt might be one of the rare ones where he can shorten his stride and as long as he'd still intact mechanically, he'll be fine.

 

He has some of the best mechanics in the game.

[YearofDaCubs]

2 years ago Schmidt would hit 98 on the gun but last year was struggling to hit 94. He still pitched fairly well but clearly his best days are behind him and that's what worries me about signing Schmidt.

[bhogg]

after all the big signings, the media will be all over the Cubs. The cubs will become media darlings.

 

Of course, they'll be predicted to win the NL.. . . . .it doesnt mean they will.

[Rob]

after all the big signings, the media will be all over the Cubs. The cubs will become media darlings.

 

Of course, they'll be predicted to win the NL.. . . . .it doesnt mean they will.

 

Even with Schmidt, we're probably still a year out.

 

If we re-sign Barrett next season, find somebody to play SS, and get contributions from Pie and guys like Veal, Gallagher, and EPatt... that's when we can really contend. I just don't think we're really in a position to with such a weak up-the-middle group right now in DeRosa, Izturis, and Jacque... and without any good, cheap pitching help.

[Soul]

2 years ago Schmidt would hit 98 on the gun but last year was struggling to hit 94. He still pitched fairly well but clearly his best days are behind him and that's what worries me about signing Schmidt.

 

It depends on the length of the deal. I have no doubt Schmidt's best days are behind him, but that doesn't mean he can't still be very effective for a few more years. Plenty of pitchers are still pretty darn good after their prime years. I think Schmidt has a decent shot at falling in to that category, though no one can be sure.

[neely crenshaw]

schmidt is a funny cat, when it comes to stuff, he's velocity flucuates from start to start. at the end of lasy season i'm his fastball hit 88-90 but i also know it hit 93-94 in other starts. and this goes on all year.

he does not have to be our ace...right now it does seem to matter to hendry what he spends, as long as he keeps filling holes..i don't care whta it costs. if we stop short of filling everything..or at least trying because we spent too much then i'll reconsider..he will take the ball, and make 95% of his starts...which we need badly! he and z at the top...will be nice!

we still need one more durable starter..maybe meche. if it is 3 years, i would bet that he lasts as a decent pitcher-more so than maddux did.

really what else do we sign if we don't get schmidt? there are some middle of the road guys but then we are either hoping that prior comes backa stud or just trying to compete. overpay or not..if we get schmidt we are trying to put together a team that can win it...and regardless of money, that's what i want!

 

sorry as much as i like guys like lilly and meche...unless we catch lightning in the bottle a rotation of z,meche,lilly,hill and marshall are not going to win a pennent!.....i refuse to even consider prior

[NoDak]

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

 

Actually, talk to most athletic trainers or physical therapists and they will tell you that ALL pitchers throw with an unnatural motion.

 

That not withstanding, KW is considered the definition of bad mechanics.

[Vinestal]

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

 

Actually, talk to most athletic trainers or physical therapists and they will tell you that ALL pitchers throw with an unnatural motion.

 

That not withstanding, KW is considered the definition of bad mechanics.

 

and Prior was considered as having "perfect mechanics" by most experts, so what does that tell you?

[UK1679666180]

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

 

Actually, talk to most athletic trainers or physical therapists and they will tell you that ALL pitchers throw with an unnatural motion.

 

That not withstanding, KW is considered the definition of bad mechanics.

 

and Prior was considered as having "perfect mechanics" by most experts, so what does that tell you?

 

It tells me that he was overworked, took some direct trauma to vital areas for pitching, altered his mechanics to compensate, and hasn't been the same since.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

 

Actually, talk to most athletic trainers or physical therapists and they will tell you that ALL pitchers throw with an unnatural motion.

 

That not withstanding, KW is considered the definition of bad mechanics.

 

and Prior was considered as having "perfect mechanics" by most experts, so what does that tell you?

 

That he's the JD Drew of pitchers? A pampered baby perhaps?

[Rob]

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

 

Actually, talk to most athletic trainers or physical therapists and they will tell you that ALL pitchers throw with an unnatural motion.

 

That not withstanding, KW is considered the definition of bad mechanics.

 

and Prior was considered as having "perfect mechanics" by most experts, so what does that tell you?

 

It tells me that he was overworked, took some direct trauma to vital areas for pitching, altered his mechanics to compensate, and hasn't been the same since.

 

The direct traumas certainly didn't help, but he would have had issues even if it weren't for the trauma.

 

The more pitches a pitcher throws, the more he gets fatigued. The more fatigued he gets, the more his mechanics begin to degrade. Even if Prior had perfect mechanics when he started the game, throwing 120 pitches was certainly going to give him bad mechanics for that last bunch. Bad mechanics equals a higher chance of injury.

 

Dusty killed Prior.

[Vinestal]

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

 

Actually, talk to most athletic trainers or physical therapists and they will tell you that ALL pitchers throw with an unnatural motion.

 

That not withstanding, KW is considered the definition of bad mechanics.

 

and Prior was considered as having "perfect mechanics" by most experts, so what does that tell you?

 

It tells me that he was overworked, took some direct trauma to vital areas for pitching, altered his mechanics to compensate, and hasn't been the same since.

 

I wasnt exactly sure what it meant myself thats why I left it open to interpretation lol... I guess it means that mechanics arent the only thing that can ruin a pitcher.

I dont know why so many people have written off Prior as never being able to return to his 2003 form. Im really hoping he can. He's never really had "major" surgery. He's had a very Cublike string of incredibly bad luck.

[UK1679666180]

Don't pretend Wood had good mechanics up until he gets tired... The way he yanks his arm across the body is unnatural even when he's not fatigued.

 

Actually, talk to most athletic trainers or physical therapists and they will tell you that ALL pitchers throw with an unnatural motion.

 

That not withstanding, KW is considered the definition of bad mechanics.

 

and Prior was considered as having "perfect mechanics" by most experts, so what does that tell you?

 

It tells me that he was overworked, took some direct trauma to vital areas for pitching, altered his mechanics to compensate, and hasn't been the same since.

 

The direct traumas certainly didn't help, but he would have had issues even if it weren't for the trauma.

 

The more pitches a pitcher throws, the more he gets fatigued. The more fatigued he gets, the more his mechanics begin to degrade. Even if Prior had perfect mechanics when he started the game, throwing 120 pitches was certainly going to give him bad mechanics for that last bunch. Bad mechanics equals a higher chance of injury.

 

Dusty killed Prior.

 

That's only if you believe that even had he worked normal work loads and suffered the same traumas that he would not be in the same position as he is now. I can't make that claim.

 

I wasnt exactly sure what it meant myself thats why I left it open to interpretation lol... I guess it means that mechanics arent the only thing that can ruin a pitcher.

I dont know why so many people have written off Prior as never being able to return to his 2003 form. Im really hoping he can. He's never really had "major" surgery. He's had a very Cublike string of incredibly bad luck

.

 

Many things can ruin a pitcher both mentally and physically that are not related to poor mechanics.

[Rob]

 

The direct traumas certainly didn't help, but he would have had issues even if it weren't for the trauma.

 

The more pitches a pitcher throws, the more he gets fatigued. The more fatigued he gets, the more his mechanics begin to degrade. Even if Prior had perfect mechanics when he started the game, throwing 120 pitches was certainly going to give him bad mechanics for that last bunch. Bad mechanics equals a higher chance of injury.

 

Dusty killed Prior.

 

That's only if you believe that even had he worked normal work loads and suffered the same traumas that he would not be in the same position as he is now. I can't make that claim.

 

I'm not implying the traumas had no effect. I was just saying this day situation was coming anyways... though it most likely wouldn't have been the train wreck it has become without the injuries. He's certainly injury prone... but I don't necessarily believe his arm is in the same boat without a lot of contributing factors.

 

I wasnt exactly sure what it meant myself thats why I left it open to interpretation lol... I guess it means that mechanics arent the only thing that can ruin a pitcher.

I dont know why so many people have written off Prior as never being able to return to his 2003 form. Im really hoping he can. He's never really had "major" surgery. He's had a very Cublike string of incredibly bad luck

.

 

Many things can ruin a pitcher both mentally and physically that are not related to poor mechanics.

 

Indeed. Zach Greinke says "hello."

[Guest]

shoulder injuries have destroyed many a young pitcher. I see his return to 2003 form as low probability for that reason. it can happen a la chris carpenter, but frequently doesn't.

[Vinestal]

shoulder injuries have destroyed many a young pitcher. I see his return to 2003 form as low probability for that reason. it can happen a la chris carpenter, but frequently doesn't.

 

Yeah but we dont even know what was wrong with that shoulder. Its not like he had a defined rotator cuff tear or something of that nature. It doesnt seem like he's had the type of injuries you cant come back from.

[Soul]

Schmidt's velocity may be tailing off, but that's what happens to most pitchers at some point. He's been through some tough seasons already, and pitched a heck of a lot. My guess is, he'll do a slow burn down until he isn't effective anymore---and that point won't likely be reached until maybe 3 years from now.

 

He pitched another 200+ innings last year, and he was supposed to be broken down *then*. Had another 180 K's, went to the All-Star game again (yeah, yeah---means nothing, except it actually does).

 

I don't see him falling off the cliff like a Wood or Prior. I'd sign Schmitty to up to 4 years.

[cubbyvirus00]

what does it matter a whole lot if his fastball MPH goes down? Power pitchers need to rely on placement and movement more then speed as their career stretches out longer.

[goonys evil twin]

what does it matter a whole lot if his fastball MPH goes down? Power pitchers need to rely on placement and movement more then speed as their career stretches out longer.

 

It matters, because stuff matters, and when your stuff lessens, your effectiveness lessens. Guys can still be relatively effective with less stuff, but they won't be as effective. And less MPH can also suggest some sort of health issue, which could lead to much worse things in the near or long-term.