The General Managers' Meetings Thread

[fromthestretch]

There has to be someone worse than JH.

 

Since very few posters gave him props for signing his own free agents (ARam, Wood, and Miller), I would think he should be ahead of the GMs that couldn't even sign their own free agents (Soriano, Drew, Schmidt, Zito, CLee, etc.).

 

What?

 

You want to rank him ahead of Beane because he managed to resign Ramirez but Beane didn't resign Zito? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

Sure it does. I realize that the A's made the playoffs with Zito but Beane should have cashed that chip at the deadline. Zito's loss would have been overcome with the depth the A's had.

 

Hendry's big negative is that he overpays for medocrity. Again I say whoopeedo. Medocrity is what exists in baseball. There are only so many "superstars" available. Last offseason most here were clamoring for Brian Giles. That would have equaled roughly the same as what Jones put together. The difference is that Jones has a more manageable contract and that leaves the right doors open for Hendry - Trades.

 

There hasn't been one trade that Hendry has made that has been a poor move. If Hendry has a club of mangeable and tradeable contracts then we can be active on the trade front.

 

I wouldn't exactly call the Maddux-for-Izturis deal a good one. Although, if he can deal Izturis as part of a package to get an impact player, I'll stop complaining about that one.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

There has to be someone worse than JH.

 

Since very few posters gave him props for signing his own free agents (ARam, Wood, and Miller), I would think he should be ahead of the GMs that couldn't even sign their own free agents (Soriano, Drew, Schmidt, Zito, CLee, etc.).

 

What?

 

You want to rank him ahead of Beane because he managed to resign Ramirez but Beane didn't resign Zito? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

Sure it does. I realize that the A's made the playoffs with Zito but Beane should have cashed that chip at the deadline. Zito's loss would have been overcome with the depth the A's had.

 

Hendry's big negative is that he overpays for medocrity. Again I say whoopeedo. Medocrity is what exists in baseball. There are only so many "superstars" available. Last offseason most here were clamoring for Brian Giles. That would have equaled roughly the same as what Jones put together. The difference is that Jones has a more manageable contract and that leaves the right doors open for Hendry - Trades.

 

There hasn't been one trade that Hendry has made that has been a poor move. If Hendry has a club of mangeable and tradeable contracts then we can be active on the trade front.

 

I wouldn't exactly call the Maddux-for-Izturis deal a good one. Although, if he can deal Izturis as part of a package to get an impact player, I'll stop complaining about that one.

 

Don't forget Pierre for Mitre, Nolasco, Pinto.

[fromthestretch]

There has to be someone worse than JH.

 

Since very few posters gave him props for signing his own free agents (ARam, Wood, and Miller), I would think he should be ahead of the GMs that couldn't even sign their own free agents (Soriano, Drew, Schmidt, Zito, CLee, etc.).

 

What?

 

You want to rank him ahead of Beane because he managed to resign Ramirez but Beane didn't resign Zito? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

Sure it does. I realize that the A's made the playoffs with Zito but Beane should have cashed that chip at the deadline. Zito's loss would have been overcome with the depth the A's had.

 

Hendry's big negative is that he overpays for medocrity. Again I say whoopeedo. Medocrity is what exists in baseball. There are only so many "superstars" available. Last offseason most here were clamoring for Brian Giles. That would have equaled roughly the same as what Jones put together. The difference is that Jones has a more manageable contract and that leaves the right doors open for Hendry - Trades.

 

There hasn't been one trade that Hendry has made that has been a poor move. If Hendry has a club of mangeable and tradeable contracts then we can be active on the trade front.

 

I wouldn't exactly call the Maddux-for-Izturis deal a good one. Although, if he can deal Izturis as part of a package to get an impact player, I'll stop complaining about that one.

 

Don't forget Pierre for Mitre, Nolasco, Pinto.

 

I'm definitely trying really hard to forget that one.

[USSoccer]

Both of those deals were actually good deals. Pierre was valued at 3 ML pitchers. That is what other teams were offering. In reality Mitre was (and still is) below average and Pinto has proven to be exactly what he was here, an inconsisent thrower. Nolasco was the only valuable pitcher given up and Pierre has a lot of value. I think at times what is lost is that a team does have to give up value in order to get a piece of the puzzle. Like Pierre or not he was the best leadoff option available last offseason (and likely this offseason as well). Why else would other teams be looking at giving him 10 million a year?

 

Maddux for Izturis is a good deal as well. Bag on "Izzy" but he is a top 5 NL SS. All Star and an above .300 average is nothing to shake a stick at. In 2005 he was above .300 for much of the 1st half. Maddux had little to no value and the Cubs could only send him to 1 team.

 

Hendry gets a lot of negativity and much he deserves but all in all he is a much better GM then he is painted to be. Say that he puts bad teams on the field and I would vehemently disagree. During the season are they bad, sure but the question is why. Why is NEVER asnwered by soling looking at statistics.

 

#1-Leadoff is not a position. Pierre is a bad baseball player with one skill that's pretty much useless without the ability to get on base. Just because other teams are similarly deluded about "leadoff" being a position on a team and are willing to throw silly money at Pierre doesn't validate a bad trade that wasted precious, tradeable assets.

 

#2-Cesar Izturis is not only not a top 5 SS, he's not a .300 hitter.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Both of those deals were actually good deals. Pierre was valued at 3 ML pitchers. That is what other teams were offering. In reality Mitre was (and still is) below average and Pinto has proven to be exactly what he was here, an inconsisent thrower. Nolasco was the only valuable pitcher given up and Pierre has a lot of value. I think at times what is lost is that a team does have to give up value in order to get a piece of the puzzle. Like Pierre or not he was the best leadoff option available last offseason (and likely this offseason as well). Why else would other teams be looking at giving him 10 million a year?

 

Wow, Pierre for Mitre-Nolasco-Pinto was not a good deal? For all this talk that Pinto is an inconsistent thrower (he definitely has control issues), he sure seemed to have good results at Albuquerque (a hitter's haven at 4500' in elevation in a hitter's league) and in the big leagues. I'm not sure how you can say Nolasco was the only valuable pitcher in the trade last season, let alone in future seasons. Just like Nolasco, Pinto's ceiling is a 3/4 pitcher and I can't see what makes you write him off like you do.

 

And that doesn't get into the fact that Pierre is overvalued (and continues to be).

 

EDIT: For some reason, I decided to call Albuquerque a pitcher's park. :?

Edited November 16, 2006 by CaliforniaRaisin

[Yeti]

#2-Cesar Izturis is not only not a top 5 SS, he's not a .300 hitter.

to reinforce this statement...

Izturis career numbers

 

.259 ave

.336 slg

.295 OBP

[Pinktermite]

Teams are looking to pay 10 million for Pierre because they are stupid. I (like a handful of others on here) were duped into thinking he was decent...I'm proud to say that I have reformed these thoughts, but only my priest knows (who happens to be a Sox fan).

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Teams are looking to pay 10 million for Pierre because they are stupid. I (like a handful of others on here) were duped into thinking he was decent...I'm proud to say that I have reformed these thoughts, but only my priest knows (who happens to be a Sox fan).

 

I hope your priest doesn't know Ken Williams!! :)

[BigbadB]

#2-Cesar Izturis is not only not a top 5 SS, he's not a .300 hitter.

to reinforce this statement...

Izturis career numbers

 

.259 ave

.336 slg

.295 OBP

 

Haha. He's not even a .300 OBP guy. I've had it up to here with guys like this on the Cubs roster:

 

Damian Jackson

Cesar Izturis

Rey Ordonez

Jose Macias

Freddie Bynum

Neifi Perez

Ronny Cedeno

Lenny Harris

Jose Hernandez

Ramon Martinez

Enrique Wilson

Tony Womack

Jerry Hairston Jr.

John Mabry

Alex Gonzalez

Augie Ojeda

Bobby Hill (oldcubsfan will appreciate that I added him to this list)

 

This is just infielders and just during the Baker administration. Look at that list. That's an average of more than 4 horrid infielders per year.

 

I could do the same with the outfield. You remember names like Troy O'Leary, Jeromy Burnitz, Angel Pagan, Jason Dubois, Todd Hollandsworth, Doug Glanville, Trenidad Hubbard, Tom Goodwin, Calvin Murray, Ben Grieve, Matt Lawton, Juan Pierre and Jody Gerut.

 

This is a big market team. Look at this list and tell me we can't do better than sub .300 OBP's and I'll eat my shorts.

 

2003: 13th in NL in OBP

2004: 11th in NL in OBP

2005: 12th in NL in OBP

2006: 16th in NL in OBP

 

Maddux for Izturis? We should have just kept Maddux if that's the best LA had to offer. I'd much rather have the sandwich pick in next year's draft than Cesar Izturis. Cesar Izturis is just more of the same.

[BigbadB]

Better yet, I'm dying to know how Hendry could make such a horrible trade for Izturis with Maddux after LA came and and swooped up Furcal out of Hendry's basket of goodies. Then, to make it worse, Colletti signed Nomar and further rubbed Hendry's nose in it. Then, he traded Milton Bradley (someone Dusty was at least interested in) to someone else.

 

All of that, and Hendry gives Maddux to the Dodgers for a broken down, no hit SS that makes way too much money for what little he can provide with a bat.

[Yeti]

Maddux for Izturis? We should have just kept Maddux if that's the best LA had to offer. I'd much rather have the sandwich pick in next year's draft than Cesar Izturis. Cesar Izturis is just more of the same.

no kidding i always knew he didnt have a bat, but i never really looked at his numbers till a few minutes ago and all i can say is "WOW he's bad"

[BigbadB]

The Dodgers had Kent, Furcal, Betemit and Lugo for their middle infield along with Izturis.

 

The Cubs have a valuable arm to trade with a team attempting to win their division and go deep into the playoffs and a plethora of prospects to offer. The best LA had to give was Izturis? I would have told them to shop somewhere else. The old saying is "you gotta give something to get something" was certainly in play, but completely ignored.

 

My apologies. I didn't have a chance to rant about this deal when it happened. That deal still makes me angry. Mainly because Izturis is dead weight taking up a roster spot and hogging payroll to do so.

 

The player that Izturis's stats closest resembles at age 26? Royce Clayton.

[WrigleyField 22]

BigBad B, I totally agree with you, but some of those guys are kinda hard to be critical of.

Matt Lawton? Only started to suck once we had him

Bobby Hill? He was seen as a good prospect. Were we not to give him a chance?

 

Some of these guys filled in during emergencies and hardly saw time, wasn't like Hendry entered the season with them (Jackson, Wilson, Glanville, Ojeda, Grieve)

 

Even the Yanks or BoSox have had their share of embarassing players.

 

But yea, Hendry has had too many.

[BigbadB]

I actually liked a few of those guys, but didn't feel it would be fair to leave them out.

 

The point is that they value a guy like Ordonez or Enrique Wilson over someone like Theriot or Bobby Hill.

 

At least Theriot has done something with his time in the bigs other than stinking up the joint.

 

And I can live with a subpar guy on the bench like DeRosa or Izturis if all they really are is bench players who give the starter a breather once in a blue moon.

 

But, how many games has Neifi started in the last 2 years? How many games did he bat at the top of the order? Sure, Dusty filled out the line up card, but Hendry could have put his foot down on that long ago. He seemed fine with watching a guy who can't get on base hit 2nd all year long. Rey Ordonez was only with the team for a week or two. Did he bat at the top of the order? Yep. Enrique Wilson? Check.

 

Izturis being penciled in to play SS is just more of the same.

 

Bobby Hill has put up a better OBP in his brief career with Pittsburgh than most of the other guys on that list. Though I'm not complaining about having Aramis on the roster. Just illustrating that this team is clueless when it comes to OBP.

Edited November 16, 2006 by BigbadB

[Monco]

If Izturis really was a .300 hitter and a top 5 NL shortstop we wouldn't be so concerned about the lineup.

[Laura]

The Knoxville News-Sentinel[/url]"] The only manager at these meetings, Piniella wasn't here to sightsee. The Chicago front office asked him to drive down the Florida coast for a reason - it wanted him to talk personally to free agents.

 

"You talk to Lou, he's so passionate about winning, it makes an impression," Cubs GM Jim Hendry said.

 

Among the players Piniella talked to was pitcher Gil Meche, who worked his first major league game for Piniella.

 

"We need starting pitching, we need a couple of position players," Piniella said. "And we're going to get them and see what happens."

 

"Another ring? That's what they hired me for. That would be the perfect way to end a career, wouldn't it? I wanted one in Seattle. I never had a chance for one in Tampa. Chicago is hungry for a title. I'm hungry for a title. I've got a three-year contract with a team option for a fourth year," Piniella said. "This is it for me. This is the last challenge, the last job. It'll get all I've got."

[Balsa]

Give 'em hell Lou!

[Brian]

ol' Lou is growing on me

[C.C.]

Beat the Cubbie passion into them Lou!

[BigbadB]

I have to admit that I like his sound bites. A pleasant change from Dusty's nonchalant "we need some good players, I think I'll go fishing."

[Brian]

It always seemed like Dusty wanted to win with the Cubs because that would give him another story. "I was on deck when Aaron broke the Babe's record..." - - "I won with the Cubs". Lou sounds like he wants to win period, I don't think he cares that it's the Cubs who haven't done crap in 100 years. I really don't think we'll hear much of Dusty's "tip your cap" post game comments anymore either.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

It always seemed like Dusty wanted to win with the Cubs because that would give him another story. "I was on deck when Aaron broke the Babe's record..." - - "I won with the Cubs". Lou sounds like he wants to win period, I don't think he cares that it's the Cubs who haven't done crap in 100 years. I really don't think we'll hear much of Dusty's "tip your cap" post game comments anymore either.

 

We might hear some flip over the post game spread comments though.

 

And if he does, Glendon is going to be pissed!

[daske17]

It always seemed like Dusty wanted to win with the Cubs because that would give him another story. "I was on deck when Aaron broke the Babe's record..." - - "I won with the Cubs". Lou sounds like he wants to win period, I don't think he cares that it's the Cubs who haven't done crap in 100 years. I really don't think we'll hear much of Dusty's "tip your cap" post game comments anymore either.

 

So if Piniella wins the World Series this year with the Cubs, do you think it's automatic that he wins Manager of the Year?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It always seemed like Dusty wanted to win with the Cubs because that would give him another story. "I was on deck when Aaron broke the Babe's record..." - - "I won with the Cubs". Lou sounds like he wants to win period, I don't think he cares that it's the Cubs who haven't done crap in 100 years. I really don't think we'll hear much of Dusty's "tip your cap" post game comments anymore either.

 

So if Piniella wins the World Series this year with the Cubs, do you think it's automatic that he wins Manager of the Year?

 

I'm almost positive they vote on that before the playoffs.

[Brian]

If he does that this year (next I guess actually), he should be nominated for Sainthood or something, MOY isn't enough.