eyre & howry

[TruffleShuffle]

right now the only strength the Cubs having head to this offseason is there bullpen and you guys want to weaken it?

 

If it means adding strength to the far more important rotation and lineup, hell yeah.

 

yeah, but then the cubs are creating a hole while patching up another. It's why you don't trade Z for A-Rod, even if you think it's a good deal, the Cubs can't afford to be giving away talent. This team is BAD, and really the only good way to improve a team this depleted in the short run is to make free agent signings and, if necessary, trade minor leaguers for major-league ready talent.

[CuseCubFan69]

right now the only strength the Cubs having head to this offseason is there bullpen and you guys want to weaken it?

 

If it means adding strength to the far more important rotation and lineup, hell yeah.

 

Right on! :afro:

 

Make a deal that improves your team, it's just that simple.

[goonys evil twin]

right now the only strength the Cubs having head to this offseason is there bullpen and you guys want to weaken it?

 

If it means adding strength to the far more important rotation and lineup, hell yeah.

 

yeah, but then the cubs are creating a hole while patching up another.

 

No. It's creating a smaller more managable hole in order to patch a far larger and more important hole. Like it or not, a good bullpen is worthless on a bad team. And it's not like the Cubs bullpen would fall to pieces if Scott Eyre was traded. He's no difference maker. He's a very small piece to a very messed up puzzle. And relatively easy to replace.

[sherwood921]

right now the only strength the Cubs having head to this offseason is there bullpen and you guys want to weaken it?

 

If it means adding strength to the far more important rotation and lineup, hell yeah.

 

yeah, but then the cubs are creating a hole while patching up another. It's why you don't trade Z for A-Rod, even if you think it's a good deal, the Cubs can't afford to be giving away talent. This team is BAD, and really the only good way to improve a team this depleted in the short run is to make free agent signings and, if necessary, trade minor leaguers for major-league ready talent.

 

I disagree. I'd decrease the talent in my bullpen for a similar increase in the offense. The offense is going to play a much bigger role over the course of the season.

[TruffleShuffle]

right now the only strength the Cubs having head to this offseason is there bullpen and you guys want to weaken it?

 

If it means adding strength to the far more important rotation and lineup, hell yeah.

 

yeah, but then the cubs are creating a hole while patching up another.

 

No. It's creating a smaller more managable hole in order to patch a far larger and more important hole. Like it or not, a good bullpen is worthless on a bad team. And it's not like the Cubs bullpen would fall to pieces if Scott Eyre was traded. He's no difference maker. He's a very small piece to a very messed up puzzle. And relatively easy to replace.

 

Yes, but what are you using him to get? It's not like you're going to get any sort of big impact player for him. Sure, I'll make a deal if I'm going to bet a big-time bat or good starter in return, but Eyre certainly isn't enough. If you're saying Eyre & prospects, then I'm fine with that.

[goonys evil twin]

Yes, but what are you using him to get? It's not like you're going to get any sort of big impact player for him. Sure, I'll make a deal if I'm going to bet a big-time bat or good starter in return, but Eyre certainly isn't enough. If you're saying Eyre & prospects, then I'm fine with that.

 

Obviously it would be Eyre in a package. No middle reliever is worth a decent SP or position player straight up.

[baseball7897]

Why does everyone want Eyre traded?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why does everyone want Eyre traded?

 

He wasn't very good last year and makes a lot of money.

[baseball7897]

Why does everyone want Eyre traded?

 

He wasn't very good last year and makes a lot of money.

 

He had a couple of injuries last year also. His weight was a obvious problem as well.

[goonys evil twin]

Why does everyone want Eyre traded?

 

He wasn't very good last year and makes a lot of money.

 

He had a couple of injuries last year also. His weight was a obvious problem as well.

 

And he refuses to exercise.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why does everyone want Eyre traded?

 

He wasn't very good last year and makes a lot of money.

 

He had a couple of injuries last year also. His weight was a obvious problem as well.

 

Yes, and he'll be 35 next year. These things aren't likely to just disappear, and they're more likely to get worse.

[abuck1220]

Just wow. If you're trading Howry, Eyre, and Ohman your bullpen wont be a strength. You would be turning that bullpen into a weakness.

 

and how far did that 'strength' take the cubs last year?

[baseball7897]

Just wow. If you're trading Howry, Eyre, and Ohman your bullpen wont be a strength. You would be turning that bullpen into a weakness.

 

and how far did that 'strength' take the cubs last year?

 

I never understood the concept of turning a strength into a weakness.

 

That strength didnt take the Cubs too far last year, because eveything else about the Cubs was a complete joke.

[goonys evil twin]

Just wow. If you're trading Howry, Eyre, and Ohman your bullpen wont be a strength. You would be turning that bullpen into a weakness.

 

and how far did that 'strength' take the cubs last year?

 

I never understood the concept of turning a strength into a weakness.

 

That strength didnt take the Cubs too far last year, because eveything else about the Cubs was a complete joke.

 

Trading Scott Eyre isn't going to make the bullpen a weakness.

[baseball7897]

Just wow. If you're trading Howry, Eyre, and Ohman your bullpen wont be a strength. You would be turning that bullpen into a weakness.

 

and how far did that 'strength' take the cubs last year?

 

I never understood the concept of turning a strength into a weakness.

 

That strength didnt take the Cubs too far last year, because eveything else about the Cubs was a complete joke.

 

Trading Scott Eyre isn't going to make the bullpen a weakness.

 

Who takes his place then?

[Sammy Sofa]

Just wow. If you're trading Howry, Eyre, and Ohman your bullpen wont be a strength. You would be turning that bullpen into a weakness.

 

and how far did that 'strength' take the cubs last year?

 

I never understood the concept of turning a strength into a weakness.

 

That strength didnt take the Cubs too far last year, because eveything else about the Cubs was a complete joke.

 

Trading Scott Eyre isn't going to make the bullpen a weakness.

 

Who takes his place then?

 

Ideally Wuertz or Ohman (if used against the right batters). We've got all kinds of young pitchers that could use some bullpen time to get more MLB experience...Marmol, Mateo, Marshall, Ryu...

[baseball7897]

Just wow. If you're trading Howry, Eyre, and Ohman your bullpen wont be a strength. You would be turning that bullpen into a weakness.

 

and how far did that 'strength' take the cubs last year?

 

I never understood the concept of turning a strength into a weakness.

 

That strength didnt take the Cubs too far last year, because eveything else about the Cubs was a complete joke.

 

Trading Scott Eyre isn't going to make the bullpen a weakness.

 

Who takes his place then?

 

Ideally Wuertz or Ohman (if used against the right batters). We've got all kinds of young pitchers that could use some bullpen time to get more MLB experience...Marmol, Mateo, Marshall, Ryu...

 

Marmol needs to work on his mechanics, Mateo still hasnt shown me anything, Marshall is a starter with horrible control, and Ryu needs more work in the minors.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If we could trade Eyre for some chemistry and intangibles, I'm all for it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Just wow. If you're trading Howry, Eyre, and Ohman your bullpen wont be a strength. You would be turning that bullpen into a weakness.

 

and how far did that 'strength' take the cubs last year?

 

I never understood the concept of turning a strength into a weakness.

 

That strength didnt take the Cubs too far last year, because eveything else about the Cubs was a complete joke.

 

Trading Scott Eyre isn't going to make the bullpen a weakness.

 

Who takes his place then?

8-)

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Just wow. If you're trading Howry, Eyre, and Ohman your bullpen wont be a strength. You would be turning that bullpen into a weakness.

 

and how far did that 'strength' take the cubs last year?

 

I never understood the concept of turning a strength into a weakness.

 

That strength didnt take the Cubs too far last year, because eveything else about the Cubs was a complete joke.

 

Trading Scott Eyre isn't going to make the bullpen a weakness.

 

Who takes his place then?

 

Will Ohman, Clay Rapada...maybe in the second half, Ed Campusano.

 

If Eyre is a big part of a trade for a bat that improves the team, like JD Drew, I don't see how you pass it up.

[rawaction]

For the record....

 

Wuertz ERA+ 174, Howry's ERA+ 146. Howry's career 133 ERA+, career high 166 in 2005 and 2004.

 

Ohman 147 ERA+ 2005, Eyre 157 in 2005 (112 to 137 in 2006). I compared 2005 numbers because Ohman was in Eyre's role that year.

 

A bullpen of Dempster, Eyre, Wood, Wuertz, Howry, Ohman has the makings of a league best bullpen.

 

A bullpen of Dempster, Ohman, Wuertz, Wood, Aardsma, Rapada has the makings of an above average bullpen that costs $8M less.

 

I'll take whatever hit to the bullpen in exchange for an $8M bat or starting pitcher anyday. I would actively seek to trade 1 bullpen arm if I planned on re-signing Wood for the pen. In order, I would look to get rid of Dempster, Eyre, then Howry.

 

Oh yeah, and just to take the thread in a different direction. I ACTUALLY LIKE ROBERTO NOVOA! He has pretty good stuff. His numbers improved across the board from 05. And I won't argue that his numbers were great, but his WHIP and BB/9 (most important stats for a reliever) were better than Eyre's, Dempster's, and Miller's....all players who people on this board have argued that the Cubs MUST hang on to.

Edited October 26, 2006 by rawaction

[Mizzou]

For the record....

 

Wuertz ERA+ 174, Howry's ERA+ 146. Howry's career 133 ERA+, career high 166 in 2005 and 2004.

 

True story, but Howry has had a much better WHIP than Wuertz in each of the past three years. And personally, I don't put a lot of stock into ERA's of relievers, considering that often times they're not even in the game when the run they're being charged with scores.

[RichHillIsABeast]

A bullpen of Dempster, Eyre, Wood, Wuertz, Howry, Ohman has the makings of a league best bullpen.

 

A bullpen of Dempster, Ohman, Wuertz, Wood, Aardsma, Rapada has the makings of an above average bullpen that costs $8M less.

 

I'll take whatever hit to the bullpen in exchange for an $8M bat or starting pitcher anyday.

 

IMO, that second bullpen would get torn up. You don't create a successful 'pen by stringing together some arms with good stats. Who would you have as closer, setup men, loogy, etc?

[rawaction]

A bullpen of Dempster, Eyre, Wood, Wuertz, Howry, Ohman has the makings of a league best bullpen.

 

A bullpen of Dempster, Ohman, Wuertz, Wood, Aardsma, Rapada has the makings of an above average bullpen that costs $8M less.

 

I'll take whatever hit to the bullpen in exchange for an $8M bat or starting pitcher anyday.

 

IMO, that second bullpen would get torn up. You don't create a successful 'pen by stringing together some arms with good stats. Who would you have as closer, setup men, loogy, etc?

 

Not to be an ass, but did you read my post? Dempster is still the closer, first off. Secondly, I made the point the Wuertz and Ohman were in the setup and loogy roles respectively in 2005....in what was a better bullpen than the one in 2006.

 

Well maybe I didn't make the exact point, but still they were in those roles in 2005 and the 2005 pen was miles better.

[rawaction]

For the record....

 

Wuertz ERA+ 174, Howry's ERA+ 146. Howry's career 133 ERA+, career high 166 in 2005 and 2004.

 

True story, but Howry has had a much better WHIP than Wuertz in each of the past three years. And personally, I don't put a lot of stock into ERA's of relievers, considering that often times they're not even in the game when the run they're being charged with scores.

 

I'll give you that, but Wuertz Ks more, gives up a much lower BAA, and keeps the ball on the ground a lot more.