On the Pat Burrell Bandwagon

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Why does Philly hate Burrell so much? The last two seasons, he's been dead on 390 OBP and 500 SLG. For all the man-love on this site for Adam Dunn for example, Burrell is just as productive and wouldn't cost nearly as much in trade. For all the talk about Carlos Lee, Burrell is a better hitter and a little younger.

 

With Pat the Bat in your lineup hitting 5th, Murton could then be used to help acquire some pitching in trade. Murton for Erik Bedard?

 

BTW, I realize Burrell is owed a lot of money, but $$ isn't a concern for us this year. We need the players, and Burrell solves LF for us. He'll be entering his age 30 season in 2007.

[rocket]

i would like pat burrel. can he play right field, out of curiosity?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Can either Burrell or Murton play rightfield?

 

I'd be for getting Burrell, but it would be nice if we could get him and make room for Murton.

[Laura]

Can either Burrell or Murton play rightfield?

 

I'd be for getting Burrell, but it would be nice if we could get him and make room for Murton.

 

Can Jacque Jones play RF? I guess he has range but ...

[VanceJergins]

He may have OBP near .400 and SLG over .500, but what was his average with RISP in the 8th inning or later in games within 3 runs in the last 2 months of the season? Huh? HUH!?

 

I've mentioned Burrell being available in a couple threads and how I'd love to get him. But I agree that we should find a spot for Murton. I think Murton's defense is very much under estimated and he could fairly easily handle RF. Not saying he'd win a gold glove or drive in as many runs with his glove as Izturis, but I think he could handle it. And I dont think it would take much to get Burrell. Everyone knows Phily wants to get rid of him and he's not very highly valued anyway. I think Jones and a B prospect might do it. Get Burrell for LF, move Murton to RF, sign Lofton for CF, and Soriano for 2B and how about this lineup: Lofton, Burrell, Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Murton, Barrett, Izturis. Not too shabby, and very realistic.

[SouthSideRyan]

I knew Burrell was being given the Abreu treatment in Philly(hated for no apparent reason), but I didn't realize his #s were that solid. He'd cost pretty much nothing to boot.

[VanceJergins]

I knew Burrell was being given the Abreu treatment in Philly(hated for no apparent reason), but I didn't realize his #s were that solid. He'd cost pretty much nothing to boot.

 

Their treatment of very good players is really weird. Do that fans hate these guys or just managment?

[Guest]

I knew Burrell was being given the Abreu treatment in Philly(hated for no apparent reason), but I didn't realize his #s were that solid. He'd cost pretty much nothing to boot.

 

Their treatment of very good players is really weird. Do that fans hate these guys or just managment?

 

near as I can tell, their fans hate everything.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How much would one have to give up in a trade for him? I would much prefer him to someone like Carlos Lee.

 

Gotta get rid of Jacque, though.

Edited October 18, 2006 by CaliforniaRaisin

[SouthSideRyan]

I'd be willing to bet they'd take Jacque for Burrell straight up. They might even pitch in a little cash. Unless the Phillies have some OF prospect they're trying to make way for?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'd do that in a heartbeat.

 

They have no halfway decent OF prospects in the high minors.

[WrigleyField 22]

He is set to make $13M and $14M the next two years. I would want the Phillies to eat at least $7M on the deal (3,4) so we pay him $10M a year. If we are trading Jacque for him, it comes out to be only $6M/$5M more each year.

 

Defense is my only concern. Murton or Burrel would have to handle RF.

[mhuber92211]

HA, HA at Murton for Bedard... that would happen. Bedard is equivalant to Hill (probably better). Would you trade Hill for Murton?

[jmajew]

I think a deal of Jones/ Marshall for Burrell could work. Then you can reasonably expect them to pick up a third of his remaining contract. 3-6 of Lee, Burrell, Ramirez, Murton looks pretty solid for the next few years.

 

If we can trade for Burrell and then sign lugo to play short we can put Pie in center and we got ourselves a nice little lineup. Lugo, Theriot, Lee, Burrell, Ramirez, Murton, Barrett, Pie. It would be a much more cost efficient plan.

 

On a side note, I got a great story about Burrell. It was in the summer of 2002 and i was sitting in the bleachers on a hot summer day when were playing the phillies. Burrell was out there shagging some flyballs. Some really hot chicks were yelling for him to toss him a ball and he yells back only if you show me your $$$$, the girls were willing to oblige but Burrell told them to stop and tossed them the ball. Priceless.

[CubFanPhilly]

He is set to make $13M and $14M the next two years. I would want the Phillies to eat at least $7M on the deal (3,4) so we pay him $10M a year. If we are trading Jacque for him, it comes out to be only $6M/$5M more each year.

 

Defense is my only concern. Murton or Burrel would have to handle RF.

 

Other than an awful 2003 (just after signing his big contract) Burrell's put up solid numbers.

 

He's not much of a personality- he's perceived as having no leadership ability / he's not a "winner". He's a poor outfielder and when he's going badly he looks lost at the plate. I've had a Phillies season ticket holder tell me, "the most aggravating thing about Burrell is that he's stupid, never learns anything at the plate. You'll see him strike out on the same combination of pitches from the same pitcher over and over..."

 

And finally, he's not the type of guy Philly fans fall in love with. I think a lot of Phillies fans look at Burrell and see J.D. Drew (talented, smug, overpaid, underachiever...). That'll get you booed in Philly any day. But I think most Phillies fans don't "hate" Burrell. They just see his contract as the biggest obstacle to improving the team (i.e., getting more pitching).

 

---

 

If the Phillies are eating at least $7 mil. they'll want a real prospect in return (pitching). My guess is that they'd want someone like Gallagher and a lesser pitching prospect and might settle for Marshall instead of Gallagher.

 

I'd start with Dempster, Jones & Marshall and see if they bite. That'd clear some dead payroll and only costs around $3 mil per yr. But If the Phillies are not asked to eat any bad payroll or throw in cash, Jones and a marginal prospect would likely get it done.

 

Defense should be a concern. With Burrell and Murton in the same outfield I'd want a CF who could cover A LOT of ground.

 

CFP

[don_kessinger_was_good]

My understanding is the Phillies (1) want someone other than Burrell to protect Howard in the lineup (Carlos Lee? Soriano?), and (2) want some salary relief to invest in pitching. So I don't see why they'd take on both Dempster AND Jones, but maybe one of the two, and that would make me happy (both will make $5MM in 2007). That puts our net investment in Burrell at $8MM, and he's worth that. Plus, we rid ourselves of a player we don't want. Count me in. We'll include someone like Guzman or Mateo to seal the deal and see if they bite.

[CubFanPhilly]

My understanding is the Phillies (1) want someone other than Burrell to protect Howard in the lineup (Carlos Lee? Soriano?), and (2) want some salary relief to invest in pitching. So I don't see why they'd take on both Dempster AND Jones, but maybe one of the two, and that would make me happy (both will make $5MM in 2007). That puts our net investment in Burrell at $8MM, and he's worth that. Plus, we rid ourselves of a player we don't want. Count me in. We'll include someone like Guzman or Mateo to seal the deal and see if they bite.

 

They need two decent starters, a 3B and more help in the bullpen. I don't see them having the payroll flexibility to sign a Soriano or Lee. My prediction is a Marquis or Suppan signing, a bullpen sign, and a trade of one of their OF for another young arm or 3B prospect. Dempster, Jones and Marshall might be overly optimistic on my part, but if you modify it, throwing enough cash back their way to make signing another starter a reality, or throwing Moore or Gallagher in the mix instead of Marshall they might go for it.

[CuseCubFan69]

First of all, I still think the Cubs are going to lose Ramirez but if ARam does stay, would aquirering Burrell make the team too right handed if Jones is traded? It would be ok as long as the rightys can hit rightys but I don't know the splits. I'd rather have a Murton, Jones, Burrell OF if it's possible along with Durham at 2nd.

[CubFanPhilly]

First of all, I still think the Cubs are going to lose Ramirez but if ARam does stay, would aquirering Burrell make the team too right handed if Jones is traded? It would be ok as long as the rightys can hit rightys but I don't know the splits. I'd rather have a Murton, Jones, Burrell OF if it's possible along with Durham at 2nd.

 

If ARAM goes, I think you have to pencil in Moore at 3B and do the best you can with the OF, SS, and 2B. Unless, of course, Cabrera is both available and willing/able to play 3B. I also think if ARAM walks it's pointless to spend $115 mil. , but if I HAD to spend the money it's:

 

Murton

Soriano

Lee

A-Rod/Tejada (at whatever the cost)

Drew/Burrell/Jenkins/C. Lee

Moore

Barett

Pie (or Lofton leading off if Pie is dealt)

 

... and spend all the remaining money (rougly $15-18 mil.) on a starter and Wood.

 

Almost all of the guys we're discussing are RH. I think it's very likely that the lineup will be RH dominant next year.

[goonys evil twin]

I knew Burrell was being given the Abreu treatment in Philly(hated for no apparent reason), but I didn't realize his #s were that solid. He'd cost pretty much nothing to boot.

 

Their treatment of very good players is really weird. Do that fans hate these guys or just managment?

 

near as I can tell, their fans hate everything.

 

Burrell sucked the year after he signed his big contract, and to them, that is unforgivable. Now, anything he does is meaningless, especially since the team hasn't won much.

 

This is why I predicted the Abreu trade. I thought for a couple years that Burrell and/or Abreu would be dealt, because Philly turns on its stars when the team around them is not good. It's similar to the ARod situation in NY. As a close, but outside observer of the Philly sports scene, it's very easy to see when a player loses the town, and when he becomes must trade material. Philly people hated Abreu for "meaningless" homeruns and being too patient. If the Cubs had a competent GM it was a situation ripe for ripping them off and filling a huge need on the team.

[goonys evil twin]

First of all, I still think the Cubs are going to lose Ramirez but if ARam does stay, would aquirering Burrell make the team too right handed if Jones is traded? It would be ok as long as the rightys can hit rightys but I don't know the splits. I'd rather have a Murton, Jones, Burrell OF if it's possible along with Durham at 2nd.

 

I don't believe in "too right handed". I think too many managers get caught up in L/R lineups, instead of the best hitters. Besides, the Cubs are actually middle of the pack in the NL for OPS against righties, and at the bottom against lefties.

[Mark_R]

Dempster and Jones for Burrell, no cash exchanged would be an amazing deal for Burrell.

[jtownie]

First of all, I still think the Cubs are going to lose Ramirez but if ARam does stay, would aquirering Burrell make the team too right handed if Jones is traded? It would be ok as long as the rightys can hit rightys but I don't know the splits. I'd rather have a Murton, Jones, Burrell OF if it's possible along with Durham at 2nd.

 

I don't believe in "too right handed". I think too many managers get caught up in L/R lineups, instead of the best hitters. Besides, the Cubs are actually middle of the pack in the NL for OPS against righties, and at the bottom against lefties.

 

Isn't Wrigley better for RH hitters anyways? Or is that what you were saying?

[SCCubbieFAN]

I'm still hoping the Cubs consider moving Jones to CF, getting soriano for 2b, & moving Murton to right. Then Burrell would be a good acq for left.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Everyone in Philadelphia hates everything.