Soriano Rejects Nationals Offer of 5 years and $70M?

[erik316wttn]

I really wanted Soriano but he's looking too expensive now. I'm getting sick of players having career years right before they hit free agency and getting absurdly bloated contracts.

 

A breakout year in a contract year should always set of red flags.

[Soriano12]

Baseball would have been 100X better off had they got a salary cap in place during the 90's. Good job Bud. Combine that with you closing your eyes to roids for over a decade and I am putting you down as the worst commish

ever in pro sports.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Baseball would have been 100X better off had they got a salary cap in place during the 90's. Good job Bud. Combine that with you closing your eyes to roids for over a decade and I am putting you down as the worst commish

ever in pro sports.

 

 

So you would have rather watched several seasons get cancelled or seasons played with replacement players because the PA would have never agreed to a salary cap. The system we have was as close as it was going to get.

[Soriano12]

Baseball would have been 100X better off had they got a salary cap in place during the 90's. Good job Bud. Combine that with you closing your eyes to roids for over a decade and I am putting you down as the worst commish

ever in pro sports.

 

 

So you would have rather watched several seasons get cancelled or seasons played with replacement players because the PA would have never agreed to a salary cap.

 

The players would have caved had they used replacements for a while, believe me they would have caved.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Baseball would have been 100X better off had they got a salary cap in place during the 90's. Good job Bud. Combine that with you closing your eyes to roids for over a decade and I am putting you down as the worst commish

ever in pro sports.

 

 

So you would have rather watched several seasons get cancelled or seasons played with replacement players because the PA would have never agreed to a salary cap.

 

The players would have caved had they used replacements for a while, believe me they would have caved.

 

I'm not so sure you are right there. Either way, I think preventing a work stoppage would have been better than having lost more of a season to replacement players.

[Soriano12]

The Cubs were pretty bad in the mid-90's, I wouldn't have minded(as a Cubs fan).

 

When Gil Meche inks his 5 year 45 million dollar deal this offseaon, it will

be a pinnacle of how bad it it.

[illiniguy]

The Cubs were pretty bad in the mid-90's, I wouldn't have minded(as a Cubs fan).

 

When Gil Meche inks his 5 year 45 million dollar deal this offseaon, it will

be a pinnacle of how bad it it.

Why should the players get capped when I have to pay $8.00 for a beer and $5.50 for a hot dog? Lets say I have a family of 4. Tickets are $20.00. Then I decide we are all gonna get a drink and some dogs at the above rates, substituting pops for the kids. I just spent $134.00 Now take that times 40,000 like the cubs get a game. Where should that money go? All of it to the owners, or a nice slice for the players who we all came to watch? Good for Gil Meche.

 

On a side note, can anyone believe a kid from the Domincan Republic can turn down $70 million dollars? Must be some kind of feeling to tell your boss nah $70 million just isn't gonna hack it.

[abuck1220]

Soriano is looking like a "Beltre-light", if you catch my drift. I can't justify the sort of cash he (apparently) wants for an OPS in the 800's.

 

who the hell's putting up an .800 OPS? soriano put up a .900+ OPS in the toughest hitter's park in the bigs in the toughest hitter's division in baseball. i can't see his numbers going down much playing all those games in gabp, mmp, miller park, etc. i'm also intrigued by the fact that he doubled his typical walk total last season.

 

i'd give him 5/75 and play him at 2b/cf...whichever he wants.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Soriano is looking like a "Beltre-light", if you catch my drift. I can't justify the sort of cash he (apparently) wants for an OPS in the 800's.

 

who the hell's putting up an .800 OPS? soriano put up a .900+ OPS in the toughest hitter's park in the bigs in the toughest hitter's division in baseball. i can't see his numbers going down much playing all those games in gabp, mmp, miller park, etc. i'm also intrigued by the fact that he doubled his typical walk total last season.

 

i'd give him 5/75 and play him at 2b/cf...whichever he wants.

 

That's the same thing people said about Beltre moving away from Dodger Stadium.

[SouthSideRyan]

Baseball would have been 100X better off had they got a salary cap in place during the 90's. Good job Bud. Combine that with you closing your eyes to roids for over a decade and I am putting you down as the worst commish

ever in pro sports.

 

Hi, I'm Gary Bettman.

[SouthSideRyan]

The Cubs were pretty bad in the mid-90's, I wouldn't have minded(as a Cubs fan).

 

When Gil Meche inks his 5 year 45 million dollar deal this offseaon, it will

be a pinnacle of how bad it it.

Why should the players get capped when I have to pay $8.00 for a beer and $5.50 for a hot dog? Lets say I have a family of 4. Tickets are $20.00. Then I decide we are all gonna get a drink and some dogs at the above rates, substituting pops for the kids. I just spent $134.00 Now take that times 40,000 like the cubs get a game. Where should that money go? All of it to the owners, or a nice slice for the players who we all came to watch? Good for Gil Meche.

 

On a side note, can anyone believe a kid from the Domincan Republic can turn down $70 million dollars? Must be some kind of feeling to tell your boss nah $70 million just isn't gonna hack it.

 

I'd say you should stop buying 8 dollar pops.

[XZero771679666304]

Soriano is looking like a "Beltre-light", if you catch my drift. I can't justify the sort of cash he (apparently) wants for an OPS in the 800's.

 

who the hell's putting up an .800 OPS? soriano put up a .900+ OPS in the toughest hitter's park in the bigs in the toughest hitter's division in baseball. i can't see his numbers going down much playing all those games in gabp, mmp, miller park, etc. i'm also intrigued by the fact that he doubled his typical walk total last season.

 

i'd give him 5/75 and play him at 2b/cf...whichever he wants.

 

That's the same thing people said about Beltre moving away from Dodger Stadium.

 

And Lee from Pro Player.

 

Soriano has had a lot more consistent success than Beltre, you know that. You can't compare the two. Plus, Yankee stadium is no picnic for right handed hitters, either. He has had four solid power seasons, three of which came in tough hitters parks.

 

Will he hit nearly 50 homers every year? No. But 35-40 is reasonable to expect on an annual basis.

 

Is 40 homers, 30+ SB and a mediocre OBP worth the price he will be asking? Probably not.

[RynoRules]

Soriano is looking like a "Beltre-light", if you catch my drift. I can't justify the sort of cash he (apparently) wants for an OPS in the 800's.

 

who the hell's putting up an .800 OPS? soriano put up a .900+ OPS in the toughest hitter's park in the bigs in the toughest hitter's division in baseball. i can't see his numbers going down much playing all those games in gabp, mmp, miller park, etc. i'm also intrigued by the fact that he doubled his typical walk total last season.

 

i'd give him 5/75 and play him at 2b/cf...whichever he wants.

 

Take it easy - I said "Beltre light", and if you look it up, he never had a .900 OPS before last year. Now, may be he was so much better b/c he was playing LF and thus taking less of a beating, concentrating more on hitting, etc., but it bothers me that he did this in his walk year. Moreover, does someone alll of a sudden acquire plate discipline at age 30? Perhaps yes, but is it likely? I dunno, that's why I don't want to give him so much money and so many years. We don't have that kind of margin of error.

[XZero771679666304]

Soriano is looking like a "Beltre-light", if you catch my drift. I can't justify the sort of cash he (apparently) wants for an OPS in the 800's.

 

who the hell's putting up an .800 OPS? soriano put up a .900+ OPS in the toughest hitter's park in the bigs in the toughest hitter's division in baseball. i can't see his numbers going down much playing all those games in gabp, mmp, miller park, etc. i'm also intrigued by the fact that he doubled his typical walk total last season.

 

i'd give him 5/75 and play him at 2b/cf...whichever he wants.

 

Take it easy - I said "Beltre light", and if you look it up, he never had a .900 OPS before last year. Now, may be he was so much better b/c he was playing LF and thus taking less of a beating, concentrating more on hitting, etc., but it bothers me that he did this in his walk year. Moreover, does someone alll of a sudden acquire plate discipline at age 30? Perhaps yes, but is it likely? I dunno, that's why I don't want to give him so much money and so many years. We don't have that kind of margin of error.

 

Soriano put up similar numbers in 2002 and 2003, with just a handful of homers more in 2006. His walks were up this year, but his AVG down from those years. I wouldn't expect a significant dropoff in the coming years. Soriano's OPS this year was about .080 above his career OPS.

 

Beltre's OPS in 2004 was nearly .250 above his career average, and .300 more than his 2003 and 2005.

 

IMO, Beltre's contract year fluke deserves to be in a class of its own.

 

Either way you want to look at it, Soriano isn't worth 15 million plus per year, IMO.

[soapy]

Even if Soriano settles back in around a .830-.860 OPS (his 3-year average from 03-05 was .848), he'd be one of the top CF or 2B in baseball (he would have ranked 3rd in both in 2006).

[Wheelimus]

As a team, we're to the point that we either get the best players in the free agent class, pull of a fleece of a trade, or we're mediocre, again.

 

If the Tribune is going to up payroll, we can afford to overspend a little bit.

 

5/75 is fair and I pay it, in this market, so long as he agrees to play center. Because that effectively negates the overpaying, since you can plug a minimum salary guy (The Riot) in at second base. Riot is our new leadoff hitter, and we're set.

 

And if the payroll rumors are true, we still have 20 to 25 million to spend, enough to get a good starting pitcher, re-sign Wood, and have enough leftover for trade flexibility.

[frostwyrm]

If you want a productive CF just put Jones there and get him a platoon partner. That'd be a lot cheaper than Soriano.

[TheDude]

That's a big deal he turned down. I'd like to see confirmation from the club that they will raise the team budget before inking that kind of deal on Soriano.

 

If the Cubs overpay, do so for Schmidt before Soriano.

[goonys evil twin]

That's a big deal he turned down. I'd like to see confirmation from the club that they will raise the team budget before inking that kind of deal on Soriano.

 

If the Cubs overpay, do so for Schmidt before Soriano.

 

You could make an argument that Schmidt is more of a risk than Soriano. Schmidt wasn't good last year. He wasn't anything special in his 20's. He's older, and has had injury problems. He had a better peak year than Soriano, but he's no better on average.

[TheDude]

That's a big deal he turned down. I'd like to see confirmation from the club that they will raise the team budget before inking that kind of deal on Soriano.

 

If the Cubs overpay, do so for Schmidt before Soriano.

 

You could make an argument that Schmidt is more of a risk than Soriano. Schmidt wasn't good last year. He wasn't anything special in his 20's. He's older, and has had injury problems. He had a better peak year than Soriano, but he's no better on average.

 

In the last 4 years he had more than 200 IP in all except one, when he had 172 IP. That is the only injury year, and was also the only one with an ERA over 4 and average numbers elsewhere.

 

So his only 'average' season in the last 4 years was one he was injured. Otherwise he has been great to very good. He's 33 and has the make-up of a pitcher that can last up to 40.

 

Knowing what pitching does for you in the playoffs, and thinking about a playoff rotation featuring Zambrano and Schmidt, and seeing repeatedly what happens to a Yankees team with a lineup full of Sorianos for the last 5 years, I'd take the gamble on the pitcher every time.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Schmidt wasn't good last year.

 

What? He had a 3.59 ERA (126 ERA+), 1.26 WHIP, 7.59 K/9, 2.25 K/BB, and a .238/.310/.379/.687 line against.

[BigbadB]

I'm really torn on Soriano. I don't think I'd mess with him. I'd keep him within my sights, but I'd focus on trades to make the team better along with less significant FA signings.

 

I'd bring back Wade Miller, Kerry Wood and extend Aramis.

 

I would target guys like Julio Lugo, Durham, Vicente Padilla and Kenny Lofton on the market.

 

I'd attempt to trade Jacque Jones and Bob Howry along with a prospect for JD Drew. I'd attempt to trade Cedeno, Dempster (and cash) and a prospect pitcher to Tampa for Crawford.

 

OF: Murton, Crawford, Drew, Restovich, Lofton, Pagan

IF: Ramirez, Lugo, Durham, Lee, Izturis, Theriot

C: Barrett, Soto

 

SP: Zambrano, Prior, Miller, Hill, Padilla, Marshall, Guzman, etc...

RP: Eyre, Wuertz, Wood, Marmol, Mateo, Novoa, Aardsma, Ohman, Rusch

 

Crawford (age 25, .348 OBP in 2006, just entering prime)

Lugo (age 31, .340+ OBP last 3 years)

Lee (needs no introduction)

Drew (lefty power bat desperately needed in between Lee and Ramirez)

Ramirez (will absolutely love driving in guys from the 5 slot)

Durham (potential top of the order guy, placeholder for Patterson)

Murton (could be involved in midseason trade if Pie is ready)

Barrett (is there a better #8 hitter in the league?)

 

Durham and Murton are like a whole 2nd top of the order, but at the bottom. Sign a Kevin Millar type as a 4th outfielder/1b in case Murton is moved to make room for Pie. Crawford slides over to LF. Besides, replacing Pagan or Lofton with someone like Millar provides a bit more pop off the bench.

 

That's how I would rebuild for 2007. They might have to give up a few decent prospects to get guys like Crawford and Drew, but that's two guys I think I'd rather have than someone like Soriano.

[goonys evil twin]

Schmidt wasn't good last year.

 

What? He had a 3.59 ERA (126 ERA+), 1.26 WHIP, 7.59 K/9, 2.25 K/BB, and a .238/.310/.379/.687 line against.

 

Last year, meaning 2005, not this year, meaning 2006.

 

94 ERA+. The knock against Soriano is he's performing in a contract year, and is usually not as good as he was this year.

 

Why doesn't Schmidt get same criticism? He's got a much longer track record of underperforming his career year stats. He's got injury issues, and pitchers, in general, are far bigger risks than hitters.

 

If people want to stay away from Soriano due to the risk involved in overpaying, the exact same issues arise when discussing Schmidt.

[jtownie]

Schmidt wasn't good last year.

 

What? He had a 3.59 ERA (126 ERA+), 1.26 WHIP, 7.59 K/9, 2.25 K/BB, and a .238/.310/.379/.687 line against.

 

Last year, meaning 2005, not this year, meaning 2006.

 

94 ERA+. The knock against Soriano is he's performing in a contract year, and is usually not as good as he was this year.

 

Why doesn't Schmidt get same criticism? He's got a much longer track record of underperforming his career year stats. He's got injury issues, and pitchers, in general, are far bigger risks than hitters.

 

If people want to stay away from Soriano due to the risk involved in overpaying, the exact same issues arise when discussing Schmidt.

Who in the FA pitching market would you target? Zito? Padilla? Another?

 

Or would you rather try and trade for some pitching?

 

Schmidt scares me for his injury history and the fact that he is getting old. If he were in his 20s still I might be more inclined to take a chance.

[C.C.]

Schmidt wasn't good last year.

 

What? He had a 3.59 ERA (126 ERA+), 1.26 WHIP, 7.59 K/9, 2.25 K/BB, and a .238/.310/.379/.687 line against.

 

Last year, meaning 2005, not this year, meaning 2006.

 

94 ERA+. The knock against Soriano is he's performing in a contract year, and is usually not as good as he was this year.

 

Why doesn't Schmidt get same criticism? He's got a much longer track record of underperforming his career year stats. He's got injury issues, and pitchers, in general, are far bigger risks than hitters.

 

If people want to stay away from Soriano due to the risk involved in overpaying, the exact same issues arise when discussing Schmidt.

Who in the FA pitching market would you target? Zito? Padilla? Another?

 

Or would you rather try and trade for some pitching?

 

Schmidt scares me for his injury history and the fact that he is getting old. If he were in his 20s still I might be more inclined to take a chance.

 

I'd target Soriano, Padilla, and knock on the door of Weaver. Zito and Schimdt are going to cost a ton! Schimdt is a gamble because of health and Zito is not an elite pitcher in the ML.