The 2006-2007 Chicago Bulls Thread

[illiniguy]

What is JR Smith's per compared to PJ Browns? Or Chandlers vs. Brown? We clearly got the worse end of both of those deals.

Smith's PER is 15.84. A step down from both Gordon's 18.64 and Hinrich's 16.90. The Bulls could've ditched Thabo in favor of Smith, but the kid's got some issues Pax didn't want to deal with. I don't blame him.

 

Brown's value is his expiring contract. When the Bulls resign Deng, Noch and Gordon, or swing a deal for Gasol, the value of that will be made clear.

Fair enough, but right now it hurts to watch PJ play. He is a shell of what he used to be able to do.

[1908]

Fair enough, but right now it hurts to watch PJ play. He is a shell of whathe used to be able to do.

No surpirse there.

[illiniguy]

Fair enough, but right now it hurts to watch PJ play. He is a shell of whathe used to be able to do.

No surpirse there.

So if that is the plan they better not even think about trading one of those young guys then. Unless it really nets someone good. I mean Garnett great, not Pau Gasol good until I reach the playoffs good.

[ChiCubsFan]

As 1908 said, the deal was never Chandler for Brown. The deal was Chandler for an expiring contract (and therefore cap space). Chandler is not "flourishing" quite as much as some people think. He's playing pretty good. And he's probably playing a little better than Ben Wallace, but the thing he's doing now that he wasn't able to do consistently enough in the past is stay out of foul trouble and stay on the court. He's averaging 34.3 minutes per game. I don't have his numbers from last year, but that has to be a big improvement. I was honestly expecting more out of Big Ben for a few more season, but unfortunately that doesn't look like it's going to happen.

 

As for losing to the Bobcats. I think it had more to do with returning from a 7 game road trip out west, then playing one game at home and then playing the next day back on the road. I didn't see the game, but the guys had to be worn out. Not making excuses, they should still win. But I'm not ready to hang Skiles and trade half the team because of it.

[1908]

So if that is the plan they better not even think about trading one of those young guys then.

Pax has followed that plan so far.

 

Unless it really nets someone good. I mean Garnett great, not Pau Gasol good until I reach the playoffs good.

Pau's four years younger than Garnett, and their production's within shouting distance this season -- KG, 25.39 to Pau, 23.63. I adore the Big Ticket but I'm not sure I'd give up much more for him than I would for Gasol at this point.

[Soul]

So if that is the plan they better not even think about trading one of those young guys then.

Pax has followed that plan so far.

 

Unless it really nets someone good. I mean Garnett great, not Pau Gasol good until I reach the playoffs good.

Pau's four years younger than Garnett, and their production's within shouting distance this season -- KG, 25.39 to Pau, 23.63. I adore the Big Ticket but I'm not sure I'd give up much more for him than I would for Gasol at this point.

 

I think the point is, do we think of the solution in terms of getting another player?

 

Or do we need to think about whether we've reached the ceiling of what Skiles can accomplish as an NBA coach?

[ChiCubsFan]

So if that is the plan they better not even think about trading one of those young guys then.

Pax has followed that plan so far.

 

Unless it really nets someone good. I mean Garnett great, not Pau Gasol good until I reach the playoffs good.

Pau's four years younger than Garnett, and their production's within shouting distance this season -- KG, 25.39 to Pau, 23.63. I adore the Big Ticket but I'm not sure I'd give up much more for him than I would for Gasol at this point.

 

I think the point is, do we think of the solution in terms of getting another player?

 

Or do we need to think about whether we've reached the ceiling of what Skiles can accomplish as an NBA coach?

 

I don't believe in coaches that can only take a team so far. I think you are either a good coach or a bad coach. Skiles is a good coach. Wasn't Tony Dungy perceived as a coach who couldn't get his team "over the hump"? Yet he was the coach that brought home the Lombardi trophy to Indianapolis. Do you think if Skiles was the coach of the Bulls teams in the 90s that they wouldn't have won a Championship? I'm pretty sure they would have. My biggest problem with Skiles is that he isn't playing Tyrus Thomas enough. I think we will, however, see more of TT in the 2nd half and into the playoffs.

[Soul]

So if that is the plan they better not even think about trading one of those young guys then.

Pax has followed that plan so far.

 

Unless it really nets someone good. I mean Garnett great, not Pau Gasol good until I reach the playoffs good.

Pau's four years younger than Garnett, and their production's within shouting distance this season -- KG, 25.39 to Pau, 23.63. I adore the Big Ticket but I'm not sure I'd give up much more for him than I would for Gasol at this point.

 

I think the point is, do we think of the solution in terms of getting another player?

 

Or do we need to think about whether we've reached the ceiling of what Skiles can accomplish as an NBA coach?

 

I don't believe in coaches that can only take a team so far. I think you are either a good coach or a bad coach. Skiles is a good coach. Wasn't Tony Dungy perceived as a coach who couldn't get his team "over the hump"? Yet he was the coach that brought home the Lombardi trophy to Indianapolis. Do you think if Skiles was the coach of the Bulls teams in the 90s that they wouldn't have won a Championship? I'm pretty sure they would have. My biggest problem with Skiles is that he isn't playing Tyrus Thomas enough. I think we will, however, see more of TT in the 2nd half and into the playoffs.

 

I'm pretty sure that Bulls team would have run Skiles out of town. Jordan owned that ballclub; Jackson was able to get out of the way enough, I don't think Skiles would.

 

And that's what I'm getting at. There's a certain player Skiles works best with. Often they aren't the superstars. Gasol's a good example. Everyone wants to bring him in. Have you seen Gasol? This is not the kind of player who will react well when Skiles screams at him, in my opinion. He'll likely shut down until he's traded. He just seems very low-key to me.

 

If you want to build a team of tough, gritty journeymen then Skiles is your guy. He did a good job pulling us out of the doldrums----taking players who just wanted to work hard and using them to put up respectable records. But championships in the NBA are about superstars. And I question whether Skiles is the right coach to work with a true superstar player. Or whether he will allow any of the potential stars on his team to flourish enough to reach their potential.

[1908]

I think the point is, do we think of the solution in terms of getting another player?

 

Or do we need to think about whether we've reached the ceiling of what Skiles can accomplish as an NBA coach?

I don't believe in coaches that can only take a team so far. I think you are either a good coach or a bad coach. Skiles is a good coach. Wasn't Tony Dungy perceived as a coach who couldn't get his team "over the hump"? Yet he was the coach that brought home the Lombardi trophy to Indianapolis. Do you think if Skiles was the coach of the Bulls teams in the 90s that they wouldn't have won a Championship? I'm pretty sure they would have. My biggest problem with Skiles is that he isn't playing Tyrus Thomas enough. I think we will, however, see more of TT in the 2nd half and into the playoffs.

I do think one good coach can be better than another good coach, but I agree with this sentiment for the most part. I'll always blame talent before I blame coaching.

 

I'm all for the Bulls getting more talented. Just not convinced trading for Gasol or another star will accomplish that. Everything depends on the price.

[ChiCubsFan]

I think the point is, do we think of the solution in terms of getting another player?

 

Or do we need to think about whether we've reached the ceiling of what Skiles can accomplish as an NBA coach?

I don't believe in coaches that can only take a team so far. I think you are either a good coach or a bad coach. Skiles is a good coach. Wasn't Tony Dungy perceived as a coach who couldn't get his team "over the hump"? Yet he was the coach that brought home the Lombardi trophy to Indianapolis. Do you think if Skiles was the coach of the Bulls teams in the 90s that they wouldn't have won a Championship? I'm pretty sure they would have. My biggest problem with Skiles is that he isn't playing Tyrus Thomas enough. I think we will, however, see more of TT in the 2nd half and into the playoffs.

I do think one good coach can be better than another good coach, but I agree with this sentiment for the most part. I'll always blame talent before I blame coaching.

 

I'm all for the Bulls getting more talented. Just not convinced trading for Gasol or another star will accomplish that. Everything depends on the price.

 

Well of course. My point wasn't to say that there's only good and only bad. Of course there are different levels of good and different levels of bad. My point was that if a coach is a good coach, which I believe Skiles is, then he's just as capable of leading a team to a championship. I don't believe there are coaches who can only resurrect teams from the dead but not lead them to titles.

[ChiCubsFan]

So if that is the plan they better not even think about trading one of those young guys then.

Pax has followed that plan so far.

 

Unless it really nets someone good. I mean Garnett great, not Pau Gasol good until I reach the playoffs good.

Pau's four years younger than Garnett, and their production's within shouting distance this season -- KG, 25.39 to Pau, 23.63. I adore the Big Ticket but I'm not sure I'd give up much more for him than I would for Gasol at this point.

 

I think the point is, do we think of the solution in terms of getting another player?

 

Or do we need to think about whether we've reached the ceiling of what Skiles can accomplish as an NBA coach?

 

I don't believe in coaches that can only take a team so far. I think you are either a good coach or a bad coach. Skiles is a good coach. Wasn't Tony Dungy perceived as a coach who couldn't get his team "over the hump"? Yet he was the coach that brought home the Lombardi trophy to Indianapolis. Do you think if Skiles was the coach of the Bulls teams in the 90s that they wouldn't have won a Championship? I'm pretty sure they would have. My biggest problem with Skiles is that he isn't playing Tyrus Thomas enough. I think we will, however, see more of TT in the 2nd half and into the playoffs.

 

I'm pretty sure that Bulls team would have run Skiles out of town. Jordan owned that ballclub; Jackson was able to get out of the way enough, I don't think Skiles would.

 

And that's what I'm getting at. There's a certain player Skiles works best with. Often they aren't the superstars. Gasol's a good example. Everyone wants to bring him in. Have you seen Gasol? This is not the kind of player who will react well when Skiles screams at him, in my opinion. He'll likely shut down until he's traded. He just seems very low-key to me.

 

If you want to build a team of tough, gritty journeymen then Skiles is your guy. He did a good job pulling us out of the doldrums----taking players who just wanted to work hard and using them to put up respectable records. But championships in the NBA are about superstars. And I question whether Skiles is the right coach to work with a true superstar player. Or whether he will allow any of the potential stars on his team to flourish enough to reach their potential.

 

Isn't Pat Riley kind of similar to Skiles in coaching style. I mean he suspended players last year for being overweight. Skiles hasn't even done that to Sweets. Riley made it work with Shaq, Payton, and D Wade. I'm pretty confident that Skiles could make it work with a superstar, as long as he isn't a punk. Why can't players take some criticsm from their coach. Who cares if he yells and makes you work hard. You're supposed to do that.

[CubColtPacer]

So Soul, do you think Skiles may be a Tom Coughlin/Bobby Knight type of coach? Coaches who get good things out of their team for a while (even overachieve sometimes) but work them so hard that they are inconsistent at times and wear down by playoff time (Knight for the players of the last 20 years, before that was a little different of a situation). Those coaches also had a little trouble with "star" players. I can definitely see a little bit of that from afar, and the rules do wear on a player (see what Tiki had to say about Coughlin earlier in the week about how tired he was). I don't know enough to say that he should be fired or not, but I was just wondering if that was the way you were going.

[Soul]

So Soul, do you think Skiles may be a Tom Coughlin/Bobby Knight type of coach? Coaches who get good things out of their team for a while (even overachieve sometimes) but work them so hard that they are inconsistent at times and wear down by playoff time (Knight for the players of the last 20 years, before that was a little different of a situation). Those coaches also had a little trouble with "star" players. I can definitely see a little bit of that from afar, and the rules do wear on a player (see what Tiki had to say about Coughlin earlier in the week about how tired he was). I don't know enough to say that he should be fired or not, but I was just wondering if that was the way you were going.

 

I think the NBA is a completely different animal than the NFL. I don't want to say Skiles' teams wear down by playoff time, because I haven't really seen that. Actually Skiles, for all his faults, plays alot of his bench often to keep guys fresh.

 

What I'm seeing is a club that was put together by Paxson for Skiles. And it's worked pretty well. But how far can this go? To me, I'm seeing players who leave this club and stretch their legs a bit, starting to do better than they did in Chicago. What if Skiles isn't giving a guy like Deng all the opportunity he needs to be that superstar? I do worry about things like that.

[Andy]

Anyone going to watch the Slam Dunk tonight?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Anyone going to watch the Slam Dunk tonight?

 

When is it?

[Andy]

Anyone going to watch the Slam Dunk tonight?

 

When is it?

The whole shebang started at 8 on TNT...I don't think they've gotten to the dunks yet though. They just had some sort of bizarre shooting stars competition that I don't know the rules of, but a "Chicago" team of Ben Gordon, Scottie Pippen and Dupree from the Chicago Sky beat a "Detroit" team of Chauncey Billups, Bill Laimbeer and Swin Cash from the Shock.

 

Laimbeer, BTW, looked terribly depressing in a regular basketball uniform.

[Flames24Rulz]

Anyone going to watch the Slam Dunk tonight?

 

When is it?

The whole shebang started at 8 on TNT...I don't think they've gotten to the dunks yet though. They just had some sort of bizarre shooting stars competition that I don't know the rules of, but a "Chicago" team of Ben Gordon, Scottie Pippen and Dupree from the Chicago Sky beat a "Detroit" team of Chauncey Billups, Bill Laimbeer and Swin Cash from the Shock.

 

Laimbeer, BTW, looked terribly depressing in a regular basketball uniform.

 

And the Chicago team was DQ'ed because Ben shot out of turn.

[Andy]

Anyone going to watch the Slam Dunk tonight?

 

When is it?

The whole shebang started at 8 on TNT...I don't think they've gotten to the dunks yet though. They just had some sort of bizarre shooting stars competition that I don't know the rules of, but a "Chicago" team of Ben Gordon, Scottie Pippen and Dupree from the Chicago Sky beat a "Detroit" team of Chauncey Billups, Bill Laimbeer and Swin Cash from the Shock.

 

Laimbeer, BTW, looked terribly depressing in a regular basketball uniform.

 

And the Chicago team was DQ'ed because Ben shot out of turn.

That figures.

 

It's friggin criminal that BG's not playing in the game by the way. I've mentioned that before.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

By the way, did you all see Reggie Bush get hurt yesterday in a celebrity all-star game thingy? I bet the Saints are real pleased.

[Flames24Rulz]

By the way, did you all see Reggie Bush get hurt yesterday in a celebrity all-star game thingy? I bet the Saints are real pleased.

 

Yeah, nothing serious though. I'd be very surprised if he takes part in that next year.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Jason Kapono wins the three-point shooting contest. :D:D:D

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Yay, UCLA getting love as Kapono gets his trophy. :)

[Soriano12]

I'd like to see John Paxon take some more heat.

 

How about complety screwing up the 2006 draft. Tyrus Thomas was a bad pick. His offensive game is so far away it isn't funny. He did not fill a need. Before the draft I wanted Brandon Roy who was most NBA ready. Now imagine if the Bulls had Roy, they could easily trade Gordon + Deng for Gasol. How about this lineup:

 

PF Gasol

SF Nocioni

C Wallace

SG Roy

PG Hinrich

 

That lineup takes the east, IMO. Then with his 2nd pick in the first round he could have taken Rondey Carney as a SF off the bench. Just a terrible draft. Paxon hasn't made a decent move since the 04 draft. I wish people in Chicago would stop treating him like some kind of god. He looks good(in comparison) because he isn't Krause, but he is a below avg GM. The talent on the court speaks for itself.

[ChiCubsFan]

I'd like to see John Paxon take some more heat.

 

How about complety screwing up the 2006 draft. Tyrus Thomas was a bad pick. His offensive game is so far away it isn't funny. He did not fill a need. Before the draft I wanted Brandon Roy who was most NBA ready. Now imagine if the Bulls had Roy, they could easily trade Gordon + Deng for Gasol. How about this lineup:

 

PF Gasol

SF Nocioni

C Wallace

SG Roy

PG Hinrich

 

That lineup takes the east, IMO. Then with his 2nd pick in the first round he could have taken Rondey Carney as a SF off the bench. Just a terrible draft. Paxon hasn't made a decent move since the 04 draft. I wish people in Chicago would stop treating him like some kind of god. He looks good(in comparison) because he isn't Krause, but he is a below avg GM. The talent on the court speaks for itself.

 

I still think I'd rather have Deng, Gordon, Thomas, Thabo over Careny, Roy, Gasol. Yeah, the latter might be better right now, but in the long run I'd rather have Deng and company.

[Soriano12]

I'd like to see John Paxon take some more heat.

 

How about complety screwing up the 2006 draft. Tyrus Thomas was a bad pick. His offensive game is so far away it isn't funny. He did not fill a need. Before the draft I wanted Brandon Roy who was most NBA ready. Now imagine if the Bulls had Roy, they could easily trade Gordon + Deng for Gasol. How about this lineup:

 

PF Gasol

SF Nocioni

C Wallace

SG Roy

PG Hinrich

 

That lineup takes the east, IMO. Then with his 2nd pick in the first round he could have taken Rondey Carney as a SF off the bench. Just a terrible draft. Paxon hasn't made a decent move since the 04 draft. I wish people in Chicago would stop treating him like some kind of god. He looks good(in comparison) because he isn't Krause, but he is a below avg GM. The talent on the court speaks for itself.

 

I still think I'd rather have Deng, Gordon, Thomas, Thabo over Careny, Roy, Gasol. Yeah, the latter might be better right now, but in the long run I'd rather have Deng and company.

 

Really? Agree to disagree I guess. I like the balance in my lineup. Inside scoring with Gasol, and a 2 guard that can score in the post as well.

 

Oh, well, what's done is done, but I have little faith in Paxon at this point.