Jacque Jones Appreciation

[Sammy Sofa]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time.

Edited September 18, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[Sammy Sofa]

And please show specifically me where a player's continued "lack of hustle," whatever that is, repeatedly cost his team games or even runs. Edited September 18, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[Mizzou]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?"

An extra base? Not making an out?

[Sammy Sofa]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?"

An extra base? Not making an out?

 

I edited my post above to expand on that. I think "hustle" is so subjective and varies so much from player to player, coach to coach and fan to fan that trying to set some kind of "hustling standard" to even begin to figure out if a player's lack of or having "hustle" significantly helps or hurts a team is next to impossible.

 

Obviously, if there's a shot a player can a make a play, they should leg it out. I take issue with the "hustle critics" who get all agitated when someone trots out an obvious groundball out where they'd be thrown out by a mile and plays along those lines. Are we going to take issue with players who aren't using two hands EVERY time they try to make a catch or go for a grounder?

[Bruno7481]

I'm at a loss for words here....

 

Reminds me of the debate a while back where some would rather a player strikeout, then make contact and potentially hit into a DP. True, that may happen, but the possibillity of something positive happening with contact severly outweighs the guaranteed negative of a strikeout.

 

Hustling can't hurt, it can even help you win. Rather it may be beating out a play, taking an extra base, whatever the case may be.

 

I think the idea of hustle goes deeper. I think it is a great reflection of work ethic, which affects a player's preperation, training, extra work, etc. All positive things.

 

There's not a hustle stat I can point to unfortunately. But just because there isn't a stat associated with it doesn't make it invisible.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm at a loss for words here....

 

Reminds me of the debate a while back where some would rather a player strikeout, then make contact and potentially hit into a DP. True, that may happen, but the possibillity of something positive happening with contact severly outweighs the guaranteed negative of a strikeout.

 

There are just different mentalities at work here. You'll find a lot of people here that often would rather see a strikeout than someone who continually "puts the ball in play." I'm one of them. It varies from situation to situation and player to player.

 

Same with this "hustle" theory. I don't know if some of you are thinking Im saying players shouldn't try on plays they actually have a slim chance of making. I'm not. I'm simply taking issue with the idea that a player who does something like jog out an obvious groundball out is doing something horribly wrong and is possibly costing his team runs or games by doing so. It strikes me as absurd. I'm also hearing what sounds like people endorsing guys like Burnitz or Jones as being somehow comparable or not toally unfavorable when compared to "lazy" players like Dunn, Aramis and Manny. I'm sorry, I'm not more impressed with a medicore player who legs things out. They're still miles away from the superstar that dogs an obvious out every so often. Running your guts out over easy outs doesn't magically make them better players, or even good. It just makes them average to bad players that get winded and sweaty more often.

 

If I'm playing favortism towards the better players, so be it. Their skills are DEFINITELY winning games left and right. The average players' "hustle" might be doing something just as much as it might not be. The two aren't even comparable.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Jones has been playing over his head for the last 3 weeks.......

 

08/27 - 09/17      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Jones              71   17   23    2    1    5   42   13    8   20  0.324  0.400  0.592  0.992

 

Keep it up as long as you can, Jacque !!

 

Love those 8 BBs in 80 PA !!

[soccer10k]

On the whole, I like what Jacque has done as a Cub.

[cjbucks]

Larry Dierker's thoughts on somewhat of a similiar subject.

 

http://blogs.chron.com/larrydierker/

 

 

I guess i gotta tip my cap to Vance on this one.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time.

 

Actually reaching or gaining an extra base if a fielder commits a mistake? That's possible even if a fielder doesn't commit a mistake.

 

If Aramis really isn't hustling because he's afraid of injury, he needs to get a trainer this offseason.

 

Aramis not hustling isn't on my top 10 list of Cub problems.

[Rob]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time.

 

Actually reaching or gaining an extra base if a fielder commits a mistake? That's possible even if a fielder doesn't commit a mistake.

 

If Aramis really isn't hustling because he's afraid of injury, he needs to get a trainer this offseason.

 

Aramis not hustling isn't on my top 10 list of Cub problems.

 

Agreed. I can think of at least 10 bigger problems.

 

1. Dusty

2. Hendry

3. MacPhail

4. Rusch's production and contract

5. Izturis

6. Rothschild

7. A severe lack of a genuine #2-type starter. Somebody has to slot in between Z and Hill.

8. Distinct inability to develop position players.

9. Cedeno's bat and the fact that it wont play at second.

10. Our training staff can't keep anybody healthy.

 

And I didn't even mention Jeff Gordon's singing... blech.

[Backtobanks]

The argument has wandered off into the illogical. Comparing a non-hustling superstar with a hustling average player makes no sense. Jones hustling is a better player than Jones not hustling. Of course Jones hustling doesn't make him better than Babe Ruth not hustling. Some of you are comparing apples to oranges. My original point meant that, as a fan, I appreciate any ballplayer giving 100% effort which maximizes that individual's play.

[Guest]

Jacque has given adequate production for his pay. Not good enough to get me excited about him on the team. Not bad enough to have me calling for his removal, either. OTOH - If he were playing a decent CF with those numbers I'd be thrilled to have him.

 

Mr. Hendry, if you are reading: This is a hint.

[Guest]

Oh yeah, on the whole "hustling" thing:

 

It's good in a ballplayer, but it's not anything I want my daughter doing.

[RynoRules]

Oh yeah, on the whole "hustling" thing:

 

It's good in a ballplayer, but it's not anything I want my daughter doing.

 

*Cue the drum roll!!*

 

I like Jacque in the sense that he appears to give his all. I just wish he would try and have the ability of say, Abreu. That said, we knew what we getting here, and like some other folks said, he's a decent complimentary player if surrounded by studs and hitting 7th.

[Mizzou]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?"

An extra base? Not making an out?

 

I edited my post above to expand on that. I think "hustle" is so subjective and varies so much from player to player, coach to coach and fan to fan that trying to set some kind of "hustling standard" to even begin to figure out if a player's lack of or having "hustle" significantly helps or hurts a team is next to impossible.

I don't need anyone to come up with a stat to measure a player's hustle. That's ridiculous and unneccessary. I just want players to give their all. Period.

[CubColtPacer]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?"

An extra base? Not making an out?

 

I edited my post above to expand on that. I think "hustle" is so subjective and varies so much from player to player, coach to coach and fan to fan that trying to set some kind of "hustling standard" to even begin to figure out if a player's lack of or having "hustle" significantly helps or hurts a team is next to impossible.

I don't need anyone to come up with a stat to measure a player's hustle. That's ridiculous and unneccessary. I just want players to give their all. Period.

 

Exactly. Hustle for me isn't about gaining a team extra wins, although it probably has a small effect on a ballgame. Hustle is about enjoying the game as a fan. Players hustling makes the game a great deal more fun. Does that mean I would get rid of a very talented, non-hustling player? No-I want to win also, but I wish he would hustle.

For me, the most fun I had with this team was the day that Z beat out the infield hit and then stole second base. Did it really help out the team? Not really-I don't think he scored in that inning. Was it an awesome moment? In my mind, absolutely.

I'd rather take talent over hustle, but hustling enhances the game experience in so many ways, at least for me. I equate it to character issues off of the field. It may not mean all that much on the field, but it makes a difference to me as a fan. For me, to say that I'm a fan means that the team is a representative of all their fans in some small part, and I want them to represent me well-both in winning and in character.

[CuseCubFan69]

What happens when a pitcher doesn't hustle over to cover first? I think it's way more than just for the enjoyment of the game...it's what winning teams do. Yeah, yeah yeah....they have to have talent but look at the 1 run records of a lot of teams that are in first and tell me that doing the little things like hustling didn't help them win a few of those.

[CubColtPacer]

What happens when a pitcher doesn't hustle over to cover first? I think it's way more than just for the enjoyment of the game...it's what winning teams do. Yeah, yeah yeah....they have to have talent but look at the 1 run records of a lot of teams that are in first and tell me that doing the little things like hustling didn't help them win a few of those.

 

I definitely agree with that. I believe that hustling has an distinct effect on the field. I just wanted to point out that for those who dispute that contention (that the difference is more than negligable), there are still reasons as a fan for wanting a hustling player.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What happens when a pitcher doesn't hustle over to cover first? I think it's way more than just for the enjoyment of the game...it's what winning teams do. Yeah, yeah yeah....they have to have talent but look at the 1 run records of a lot of teams that are in first and tell me that doing the little things like hustling didn't help them win a few of those.

 

I don't know if this is what you're saying, but are you saying that first place teams are there because they win close games, and some of those are won because they do little things like hustle?

[Backtobanks]

Oh yeah, on the whole "hustling" thing:

 

It's good in a ballplayer, but it's not anything I want my daughter doing.

 

*Cue the drum roll!!*

 

I like Jacque in the sense that he appears to give his all. I just wish he would try and have the ability of say, Abreu. That said, we knew what we getting here, and like some other folks said, he's a decent complimentary player if surrounded by studs and hitting 7th.

 

How many players play at 100% and have the ability of someone like Abreu? Players like Abreu are probably in the top 5 - 10% in the league. Unfortunately, when a player reaches "superstar" status often they don't need to show the 100% effort anymore. That's why Jeter is so respected by everyone.

[goonys evil twin]

Oh yeah, on the whole "hustling" thing:

 

It's good in a ballplayer, but it's not anything I want my daughter doing.

 

*Cue the drum roll!!*

 

I like Jacque in the sense that he appears to give his all. I just wish he would try and have the ability of say, Abreu. That said, we knew what we getting here, and like some other folks said, he's a decent complimentary player if surrounded by studs and hitting 7th.

 

How many players play at 100% and have the ability of someone like Abreu? Players like Abreu are probably in the top 5 - 10% in the league. Unfortunately, when a player reaches "superstar" status often they don't need to show the 100% effort anymore. That's why Jeter is so respected by everyone.

 

I'm wondering why Jacque is getting the "100% effort" label. I sure don't see it. The repeated pickoffs and throwing issues scream lazy to me.

[CuseCubFan69]

What happens when a pitcher doesn't hustle over to cover first? I think it's way more than just for the enjoyment of the game...it's what winning teams do. Yeah, yeah yeah....they have to have talent but look at the 1 run records of a lot of teams that are in first and tell me that doing the little things like hustling didn't help them win a few of those.

 

I don't know if this is what you're saying, but are you saying that first place teams are there because they win close games, and some of those are won because they do little things like hustle?

 

I'm saying that doing little things like hustling helps you win some of those close games.

[RockTheIvy]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time.

 

 

Are you just really, really lazy or something?

 

I know "hustling" and "little things" are often not difference makers, but they absolutely cannot hurt a team. I realize Dunn, Ramirez and, well, Ramirez are who they are, but would it hurt them to run a little harder to first? To show they're teamates that they're giving their all?

[goonys evil twin]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time.

 

 

Are you just really, really lazy or something?

 

I know "hustling" and "little things" are often not difference makers, but they absolutely cannot hurt a team. I realize Dunn, Ramirez and, well, Ramirez are who they are, but would it hurt them to run a little harder to first? To show they're teamates that they're giving their all?

 

Hustling, like aggressive, can hurt a team if it's not applied smartly. Some might call trying to stretch a single into a double a hustle play, but it's only hustle if you're safe. Otherwise it's stupidly running into outs. Baseball is not a balls to the wall sport.