Paul Sullivan's rehaul of the Chicago Cubs

[dalgreen]

With Sullivan's revamp, you had better hope that they stay healthy. With Sheffield, Mussina, Durham, and Lowell in addition to Prior and Wood on the team, we might lead the league in players going to the DL.

 

I'll give Sullivan credit for getting the ball rolling by suggesting a 2007 lineup. If Hendry were a thinking outside the box kind of guy, I'd love to see him ask Cashman if ARod would drop his no-trade clause and see if the Yankees would pay $10 million of ARod's $25 million a year, and I'd pretty much agree to any reasonable trade. I have no problem letting ARam walk, but I would like to replace him with someone better than Lowell.

[Warpticon]

I like Durham, and would definitely advocate getting him as a stopgap. Keeps the Cubs from rushing Patterson, who is close but not there yet (although he has been tearing up AAA ball in very limited time, so he may be closer than suspected), but doesn't block him long-term. I'd offer a one year deal for decent money, and hopefully nobody's dumb enough to offer him a long-term deal. He'd eliminate the "need" to sign a stereotypical leadoff guy (pierre, roberts) for CF, giving the Cubs better options. I would then move Jones to CF and shoot for a big bat to play LF or RF, keeping Murton at the other position (RF seems more feasible, naturally). Alternately, making a play for either Giles or A. Jones from ATL, since both seem to be available in the right deal. And it is imperative to keep Ramirez.

 

If they got A. Jones, what do we do with our own Jock Jones?

 

Leave him in right. We could use his power and not suffer for his lack of OBP if we have Durham/Murton/Lee/Ramirez/Jones/Barrett batting at the top of the order easily. Heck, Jones would be a fantastic #7 hitter if you could pull that off.

 

Actually, I'd love to see the Cubs trade for Andruw Jones and trade for Carlos Lee. Not going to happen, and not really worth what you pay for, probably, but I just keep giggling at the idea of a Lee/Jones/Lee/Jones middle of the lineup.

Edited September 1, 2006 by Warpticon

[Twiggy]

Sully hasn't been thinking straight all year long.

[RockTheIvy]

I like Durham, and would definitely advocate getting him as a stopgap. Keeps the Cubs from rushing Patterson, who is close but not there yet (although he has been tearing up AAA ball in very limited time, so he may be closer than suspected), but doesn't block him long-term. I'd offer a one year deal for decent money, and hopefully nobody's dumb enough to offer him a long-term deal. He'd eliminate the "need" to sign a stereotypical leadoff guy (pierre, roberts) for CF, giving the Cubs better options. I would then move Jones to CF and shoot for a big bat to play LF or RF, keeping Murton at the other position (RF seems more feasible, naturally). Alternately, making a play for either Giles or A. Jones from ATL, since both seem to be available in the right deal. And it is imperative to keep Ramirez.

 

If they got A. Jones, what do we do with our own Jock Jones?

 

Leave him in right. We could use his power and not suffer for his lack of OBP if we have Durham/Murton/Lee/Ramirez/Jones/Barrett batting at the top of the order easily. Heck, Jones would be a fantastic #7 hitter if you could pull that off.

 

Oh I see. Yeah, I could live with Jones batting seventh. I guess I misread your post and thought you would move Murton to Right regardless of other moves. That lineup would be kick ass, and the defense would be much improved.

[imb]

With Sullivan's revamp, you had better hope that they stay healthy. With Sheffield, Mussina, Durham, and Lowell in addition to Prior and Wood on the team, we might lead the league in players going to the DL.

 

I'll give Sullivan credit for getting the ball rolling by suggesting a 2007 lineup. If Hendry were a thinking outside the box kind of guy, I'd love to see him ask Cashman if ARod would drop his no-trade clause and see if the Yankees would pay $10 million of ARod's $25 million a year, and I'd pretty much agree to any reasonable trade. I have no problem letting ARam walk, but I would like to replace him with someone better than Lowell.

 

They wouldnt even have to do that. The Rangers are still paying, what, 6 or 8 million a season of arod money?

[kylescubs23]

I keep getting this feeling that Marcus Giles is going to be our 2nd basemen next year.

[ToupeeOnFire]

Rehauling the Cubs for next year begins with re-signing Aramis. There are certain things you have a reasonable amount of control over and Aram's situation is one of them, as opposed to a volatile free agent market where you have no idea about where any particular player wants to play and what it will take to get them. I think the worst mistake anyone can make is to assume that the Cubs will use the money freed up by Aramis to get players of comparable or greater value. Even if they were to get such a player (like Carlos Lee), it would mean filling third base with a player of lesser value (like David Bell) and a Lee/Bell LF/3B combo compared to Murton/Aram is not really any improvement at all - I'd call it a downgrade. Plus, trusting Jim Hendry to make the most of his available resources is complete folly.

 

Paul Sullivan mentions Mike Lowell as a potential stop-gap, but really, what's the point? He's set to make $9 million next year and the Cubs will have to give up something to get him. In the end, you're not really saving much over the $11 million Aram would get next year or whatever it would take for him to agree to an extension. What he is suggesting is throwing Aram aside for a one year stopgap of Mike Lowell, $2 million in cash saved, and a future of Scott Moore. I like Scott Moore, but we all know how these "3rd baseman of the future!" projects turn out. Unless the ultimate goal is to blow the whole thing up and start over, I'll keep Aram thank you very much.

 

Finally, can we please stop with the "Aramis didn't deliver in April and May when they needed him" argument. Two months does not make a season and one player does not make a team. Aramis has now given the Cubs three consecutive outstanding seasons. If you are too blind to see that, then you deserve the type of crud-infested, slap-happy, swing-at-everything Aramisless offense Jim Hendry is likely to deliver next year. And for all the complaints of his nebulous “lack of hustle”, I’m reminded of a guy the Cubs gave a three year contract to who plays right field, makes boneheaded play after boneheaded play, frequently makes stupid outs on the basepaths, and when he is not throwing the ball into the ground, is throwing the ball to wherever his intended target isn’t. Hitting aside, I’ll take the occasional non-hustle guy who is pretty steady in all other aspects of the game and doesn’t make stupid mistakes over the guy who plays baseball like a chicken with his head cut off. If you are looking to free up money in order to sign some players that is the place to start.

[dew1679666265]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0609010199sep01,1,5037072.story?coll=chi-sportscubs-hed

 

His lineup for next year:

 

1. Gary Matthews Jr. CF 2. Ray Durham 2B 3 Derrek Lee 1B 4. Gary Sheffield RF 5. Michael Barrett C 6. Mike Lowell 3B 7. Jacque Jones LF 8. Cesar Izturis SS

 

I like the idea of Durham, I had never really considered him. I don't like Lowell to replace Ramirez and certainly don't like Matthews. GM Jr is bad as a leadoff man, 260 BA .334 OBP .416 SLG career numbers, plus he's 32. Pierre would be better than him.

[RockTheIvy]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0609010199sep01,1,5037072.story?coll=chi-sportscubs-hed

 

His lineup for next year:

 

1. Gary Matthews Jr. CF 2. Ray Durham 2B 3 Derrek Lee 1B 4. Gary Sheffield RF 5. Michael Barrett C 6. Mike Lowell 3B 7. Jacque Jones LF 8. Cesar Izturis SS

 

I like the idea of Durham, I had never really considered him. I don't like Lowell to replace Ramirez and certainly don't like Matthews. GM Jr is bad as a leadoff man, 260 BA .334 OBP .416 SLG career numbers, plus he's 32. Pierre would be better than him.

 

The .334 OBP and the .416 slugging would be better than Pierre. And if he plays like he did this year...

[dew1679666265]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0609010199sep01,1,5037072.story?coll=chi-sportscubs-hed

 

His lineup for next year:

 

1. Gary Matthews Jr. CF 2. Ray Durham 2B 3 Derrek Lee 1B 4. Gary Sheffield RF 5. Michael Barrett C 6. Mike Lowell 3B 7. Jacque Jones LF 8. Cesar Izturis SS

 

I like the idea of Durham, I had never really considered him. I don't like Lowell to replace Ramirez and certainly don't like Matthews. GM Jr is bad as a leadoff man, 260 BA .334 OBP .416 SLG career numbers, plus he's 32. Pierre would be better than him.

 

The .334 OBP and the .416 slugging would be better than Pierre. And if he plays like he did this year...

 

Matthews' .334 OBP is worse than Pierre's .351 career, I fail to see how Matthews is better in that regard. As far as slugging, yeah Matthews has him but I'm willing to sacrifice 40 points in slugging for 17 points of OBP with a leadoff hitter, especially when Pierre kills him in BA, .302 (Pierre) and .260 (GM). Plus, at 32 the chances of him repeating are slim to none. Especially given the fact that the only three times he's topped a .350 OBP in his career excluding this year, he's played in 23, 109, and 87 games. Finally, he's going to cost some money coming off this kind of year. I see no benefit in acquiring him.

[RockTheIvy]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0609010199sep01,1,5037072.story?coll=chi-sportscubs-hed

 

His lineup for next year:

 

1. Gary Matthews Jr. CF 2. Ray Durham 2B 3 Derrek Lee 1B 4. Gary Sheffield RF 5. Michael Barrett C 6. Mike Lowell 3B 7. Jacque Jones LF 8. Cesar Izturis SS

 

I like the idea of Durham, I had never really considered him. I don't like Lowell to replace Ramirez and certainly don't like Matthews. GM Jr is bad as a leadoff man, 260 BA .334 OBP .416 SLG career numbers, plus he's 32. Pierre would be better than him.

 

The .334 OBP and the .416 slugging would be better than Pierre. And if he plays like he did this year...

 

Matthews' .334 OBP is worse than Pierre's .351 career, I fail to see how Matthews is better in that regard. As far as slugging, yeah Matthews has him but I'm willing to sacrifice 40 points in slugging for 17 points of OBP with a leadoff hitter, especially when Pierre kills him in BA, .302 (Pierre) and .260 (GM). Plus, at 32 the chances of him repeating are slim to none. Especially given the fact that the only three times he's topped a .350 OBP in his career excluding this year, he's played in 23, 109, and 87 games. Finally, he's going to cost some money coming off this kind of year. I see no benefit in acquiring him.

 

I like Juan Pierre, but I think his days of hitting well over .300 are in the past. That being said, I'm not advocating Sarge Jr., because, as you said, I don't think he'll solve our leadoff issues either.

 

I guess I just wouldn't be too dissapointed if we could be guranteed of a .334 OBP batting leadoff for an entire season.

[Mark Priors Calves]

I really like Ray Durham for a 1 or at worst 2 year deal.

[CuseCubFan69]

I really like Ray Durham for a 1 or at worst 2 year deal.

 

Isn't Durham a swing at every pitch type guy too?

[rocket]

I really like Ray Durham for a 1 or at worst 2 year deal.

 

Isn't Durham a swing at every pitch type guy too?

 

He has a career .073 IsoD, so probably not.

[CuseCubFan69]

I really like Ray Durham for a 1 or at worst 2 year deal.

 

Isn't Durham a swing at every pitch type guy too?

 

He has a career .073 IsoD, so probably not.

 

Interesting, not bad and he has some power too, isn't he around 33/34 years old?

 

Ok...if the Cubs can get ARod and AJones I'll settle for Durham at second instead of Soriano.

[A New Era]

I really like Ray Durham for a 1 or at worst 2 year deal.

 

Isn't Durham a swing at every pitch type guy too?

 

He has a career .073 IsoD, so probably not.

 

Interesting, not bad and he has some power too, isn't he around 33/34 years old?

 

Ok...if the Cubs can get ARod and AJones I'll settle for Durham at second instead of Soriano.

 

Hopeful, aren't you?

[dew1679666265]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0609010199sep01,1,5037072.story?coll=chi-sportscubs-hed

 

His lineup for next year:

 

1. Gary Matthews Jr. CF 2. Ray Durham 2B 3 Derrek Lee 1B 4. Gary Sheffield RF 5. Michael Barrett C 6. Mike Lowell 3B 7. Jacque Jones LF 8. Cesar Izturis SS

 

I like the idea of Durham, I had never really considered him. I don't like Lowell to replace Ramirez and certainly don't like Matthews. GM Jr is bad as a leadoff man, 260 BA .334 OBP .416 SLG career numbers, plus he's 32. Pierre would be better than him.

 

The .334 OBP and the .416 slugging would be better than Pierre. And if he plays like he did this year...

 

Matthews' .334 OBP is worse than Pierre's .351 career, I fail to see how Matthews is better in that regard. As far as slugging, yeah Matthews has him but I'm willing to sacrifice 40 points in slugging for 17 points of OBP with a leadoff hitter, especially when Pierre kills him in BA, .302 (Pierre) and .260 (GM). Plus, at 32 the chances of him repeating are slim to none. Especially given the fact that the only three times he's topped a .350 OBP in his career excluding this year, he's played in 23, 109, and 87 games. Finally, he's going to cost some money coming off this kind of year. I see no benefit in acquiring him.

 

I like Juan Pierre, but I think his days of hitting well over .300 are in the past. That being said, I'm not advocating Sarge Jr., because, as you said, I don't think he'll solve our leadoff issues either.

 

I guess I just wouldn't be too dissapointed if we could be guranteed of a .334 OBP batting leadoff for an entire season.

 

I just don't understand how Matthews can be viewed as a bit better than Pierre when judging their numbers. I like Pierre too, maybe not enough to bring him back for multi-years, and I strongly believe it would be a large decrease to drop Pierre and add Matthews. If we don't bring back Juan, we need to either sign an impact CF or a solid stopgap until Pie is ready, Matthews is neither.

[RockTheIvy]

Well, if we are comparing Sarge Jr. to an impact CF, say, Andrew Jones, then, well, there is no comparison. However, I think that, compared with Pierre, Matthews might be a more complete player.

 

I suppose it depends on whether Pierre plays like he has these past two seasons, or like he did in 2003 and 2004.

[CuseCubFan69]

I really like Ray Durham for a 1 or at worst 2 year deal.

 

Isn't Durham a swing at every pitch type guy too?

 

He has a career .073 IsoD, so probably not.

 

Interesting, not bad and he has some power too, isn't he around 33/34 years old?

 

Ok...if the Cubs can get ARod and AJones I'll settle for Durham at second instead of Soriano.

 

Hopeful, aren't you?

 

I'm a Cub fan....I have to be.

[dew1679666265]

Well, if we are comparing Sarge Jr. to an impact CF, say, Andrew Jones, then, well, there is no comparison. However, I think that, compared with Pierre, Matthews might be a more complete player.

 

I suppose it depends on whether Pierre plays like he has these past two seasons, or like he did in 2003 and 2004.

 

Let's compare Pierre and Matthews then.

 

Matthews

2003- 144games .248 BA .339 OBP 43 BB

2004- 87games .275 BA .350 OBP 33BB

2005-131games .255 BA .320 OBP 47BB

 

Pierre

2003-162games .305 .361 55BB

2004-162games .326 .374 45BB

2005-162games .276 .326 41BB

 

Pierre has had a better BA, OBP, and number of walks each of the last three seasons, excluding this one (and last year in terms of walks). I see no reason to think that Matthews is a more complete player. Juan's better, but I'm not completely behind bringing him back next year. My main point against GM Jr. is that there are much better options that will be available and we would be settling far too low with him, especially considering he's worse than who we currently have and may cost more after this fluke year.

[RockTheIvy]

Well, if we are comparing Sarge Jr. to an impact CF, say, Andrew Jones, then, well, there is no comparison. However, I think that, compared with Pierre, Matthews might be a more complete player.

 

I suppose it depends on whether Pierre plays like he has these past two seasons, or like he did in 2003 and 2004.

 

Let's compare Pierre and Matthews then.

 

Matthews

2003- 144games .248 BA .339 OBP 43 BB

2004- 87games .275 BA .350 OBP 33BB

2005-131games .255 BA .320 OBP 47BB

 

Pierre

2003-162games .305 .361 55BB

2004-162games .326 .374 45BB

2005-162games .276 .326 41BB

 

Pierre has had a better BA, OBP, and number of walks each of the last three seasons, excluding this one (and last year in terms of walks). I see no reason to think that Matthews is a more complete player. Juan's better, but I'm not completely behind bringing him back next year. My main point against GM Jr. is that there are much better options that will be available and we would be settling far too low with him, especially considering he's worse than who we currently have and may cost more after this fluke year.

 

Alright lemme say this. I don't think either of them are very good and I hope neither are on the Cubs next year.

[dew1679666265]

Well, if we are comparing Sarge Jr. to an impact CF, say, Andrew Jones, then, well, there is no comparison. However, I think that, compared with Pierre, Matthews might be a more complete player.

 

I suppose it depends on whether Pierre plays like he has these past two seasons, or like he did in 2003 and 2004.

 

Let's compare Pierre and Matthews then.

 

Matthews

2003- 144games .248 BA .339 OBP 43 BB

2004- 87games .275 BA .350 OBP 33BB

2005-131games .255 BA .320 OBP 47BB

 

Pierre

2003-162games .305 .361 55BB

2004-162games .326 .374 45BB

2005-162games .276 .326 41BB

 

Pierre has had a better BA, OBP, and number of walks each of the last three seasons, excluding this one (and last year in terms of walks). I see no reason to think that Matthews is a more complete player. Juan's better, but I'm not completely behind bringing him back next year. My main point against GM Jr. is that there are much better options that will be available and we would be settling far too low with him, especially considering he's worse than who we currently have and may cost more after this fluke year.

 

Alright lemme say this. I don't think either of them are very good and I hope neither are on the Cubs next year.

 

:lol: I guess I can accept that. I wouldn't mind offering Pierre arbitration myself, but wouldn't sign him to a big deal. The arby deal would just be as a stopgap until Pie is ready. Otherwise, there are much better options possibly available.

[RockTheIvy]

I'm actually in the Cameron camp, but I'm not sure he'll take a one year deal. Who would you like to see?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

PLAY PIE

[RockTheIvy]

PLAY PIE

 

I could dig that. Just curious TT, let's say Pie is slotted to play CF for us next year. How would you fill in the rest of the lineup and where would you bat him?