Assesment on Hill, so far?

[YearofDaCubs]

Who knows what would have happened if Hill didn't figure it out. I think he could have been a goner? Having Baker as manager is a scary thing.

[TruffleShuffle]

Who knows what would have happened if Hill didn't figure it out. I think he could have been a goner? Having Baker as manager is a scary thing.

 

Well, if he didn't figure it out, he should have been a goner. One can't keep throwing a guy out there with a 9.00 ERA. Like if the Cubs had called him up on July 28 and he got hammered from that date until the end of the year, can you really go into next year with that guy in your plans? But, I think Hill would've been farmed out again if he'd had about 3 bad starts in a row after coming up. To his credit, two of his first four starts were real strong, and he's made the most of his opportunity.

 

Plus, there isn't much positive about so many pitchers getting hurt, but if Wood, Prior, Marshall and a host of others had stayed healthy this year, Hill would likely have never seen the bigs. So, the injuries and the crappy record have given the Cubs to find out more on their young guys for next year.

[C.C.]

The only thing I still worry about Hill is how does he pitch under pressure? I mean it's easy to pitch for a last place team that is playing for nothing.

But then again, he may never have to worry about playing for something, as long as he pitches for the Cubs...

 

Are you freaking kidding?

 

After his poor start of the season, demotion to the bullpen, and demotion to AAA, every start is a pressure situation.

 

Pressure is an individual phenomenon not a team or group one.

 

When I am golfing and am lining up a 4 foot put for par, with no money on the line, no crowd, and just my friends watching is one of the biggest pressure situation I face on a weekly basis.

 

I don't agree with you. Even if he failed this time around he would've gotten serveral more shots at the bigs because of his stats in the minors. Todd Walker once said it's easy to play for smaller market teams that draw no fans because there is no pressure. Playing for Boston and NY is far more pressure, where you are expected to excel from day 1 and expected to win.

 

I don't know how to respond other than asking you about when you feel pressure. Is it becuase of the situation or becuase of what others say about the situation?

 

BTW- I would think that pitching in Wrigley in front of a packed house, for a manager and GM who haven't exactly "had his back" is a pretty big pressure situation.

 

How much pressure do you think Anibel Sanchez had last night when he was pitching in front of 30,000 empty seats?

 

I don't play in the major leagues? So I don't know what kind of pressure players feel. I'm assuming it's a hellva alot harder to play in Boston, NY then in Tampa Bay or KC.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't play in the major leagues? So I don't know what kind of pressure players feel. I'm assuming it's a hellva alot harder to play in Boston, NY then in Tampa Bay or KC.

 

If it were harder, then we'd probably see marked differences in performance when players go from one to the other.

[C.C.]

I don't play in the major leagues? So I don't know what kind of pressure players feel. I'm assuming it's a hellva alot harder to play in Boston, NY then in Tampa Bay or KC.

 

If it were harder, then we'd probably see marked differences in performance when players go from one to the other.

 

I think you do see that. Look at the stats of Edgar Renteria where he had 30 errors with Boston and only 11 so far this year. AROD in NY has how many errors at 3rd base. You can't tell me the fans getting on him isn't pressure? What City other then NY would boo AROD as much as they have? Cory Patterson feeling the heat last year?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't play in the major leagues? So I don't know what kind of pressure players feel. I'm assuming it's a hellva alot harder to play in Boston, NY then in Tampa Bay or KC.

 

If it were harder, then we'd probably see marked differences in performance when players go from one to the other.

 

I think you do see that. Look at the stats of Edgar Renteria where he had 30 errors with Boston and only 11 so far this year. AROD in NY has how many errors at 3rd base. You can't tell me the fans getting on him isn't pressure? What City other then NY would boo AROD as much as they have? Cory Patterson feeling the heat last year?

 

So Renteria was impacted by the pressure but he's not anymore? What about Beltran going from KC to NY? There's no correlation there for performance.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't play in the major leagues? So I don't know what kind of pressure players feel. I'm assuming it's a hellva alot harder to play in Boston, NY then in Tampa Bay or KC.

 

If it were harder, then we'd probably see marked differences in performance when players go from one to the other.

 

I think you do see that. Look at the stats of Edgar Renteria where he had 30 errors with Boston and only 11 so far this year. AROD in NY has how many errors at 3rd base. You can't tell me the fans getting on him isn't pressure? What City other then NY would boo AROD as much as they have? Cory Patterson feeling the heat last year?

 

Yeah, David Ortiz sure went in the toilet after going from small-market, no-pressure Minnesota to the media frenzy in Boston.

[Deeg]

So Renteria was impacted by the pressure but he's not anymore? What about Beltran going from KC to NY? There's no correlation there for performance.

 

There was certainly a correlation last year - Beltran got off to a terrible start and ended up having a mediocre (for him) season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

So Renteria was impacted by the pressure but he's not anymore? What about Beltran going from KC to NY? There's no correlation there for performance.

 

There was certainly a correlation last year - Beltran got off to a terrible start and ended up having a mediocre (for him) season.

 

He also played with an injury through a great portion of the season.

[TruffleShuffle]

So Renteria was impacted by the pressure but he's not anymore? What about Beltran going from KC to NY? There's no correlation there for performance.

 

There was certainly a correlation last year - Beltran got off to a terrible start and ended up having a mediocre (for him) season.

 

Yeah, and now he's having his best major league season by far. Kind of throws a monkey wrench into your theory.

[C.C.]

I don't play in the major leagues? So I don't know what kind of pressure players feel. I'm assuming it's a hellva alot harder to play in Boston, NY then in Tampa Bay or KC.

 

If it were harder, then we'd probably see marked differences in performance when players go from one to the other.

 

I think you do see that. Look at the stats of Edgar Renteria where he had 30 errors with Boston and only 11 so far this year. AROD in NY has how many errors at 3rd base. You can't tell me the fans getting on him isn't pressure? What City other then NY would boo AROD as much as they have? Cory Patterson feeling the heat last year?

 

Yeah, David Ortiz sure went in the toilet after going from small-market, no-pressure Minnesota to the media frenzy in Boston.

 

Every players different. Some thrive off it and some don't.

[Deeg]

First of all, its not my theory. But if I was to theorize, the Renteria and Beltran examples would make an interesting circumstantial case that it takes a year for some guys to adjust to going from a small-market team to a media circus.

[TruffleShuffle]

I will say, this idea does explain why the most prominent team in baseball, in the biggest media market in the country, has had such a hard time winning championships. Their players just struggle under the pressure.

[C.C.]

I will say, this idea does explain why the most prominent team in baseball, in the biggest media market in the country, has had such a hard time winning championships. Their players just struggle under the pressure.

 

As I said every player's different. It's not my theory either. I'm just saying what Todd Walker has said. Maybe Todd Walker is the only baseball player who feels this way, I don't know.

[CubinNY]

I will say, this idea does explain why the most prominent team in baseball, in the biggest media market in the country, has had such a hard time winning championships. Their players just struggle under the pressure.

 

As I said every player's different. It's not my theory either. I'm just saying what Todd Walker has said. Maybe Todd Walker is the only baseball player who feels this way, I don't know.

 

Maybe Todd Walkers was just making stuff up? Maybe he was asked a stupid question and started to theorize.

 

Let's get this back to Hill. Maybe he is more comfortable pitching in the bigs. Maybe that's why is better. Maybe all his problems are psychological. It could be true.

 

However, I highly doubt it. In life there is a learning curve for every organism. The learning can only take place from experience.

 

Rich Hill started off terrible and wasn't given enough time to show what he could do before being yanked around by the brain trust.

 

Now you are saying he has done ok with no pressure, when in fact you have no idea how much pressure he's been pitching under since being called up. Neither do I.

 

But knowing what I know about behaivor, I'd say it was quite a bit. Dusty and Hendry both basically said, "It's time to put out and produce or you won't get another shot" the last time he came back.

[fromthestretch]

First of all, its not my theory. But if I was to theorize, the Renteria and Beltran examples would make an interesting circumstantial case that it takes a year for some guys to adjust to going from a small-market team to a media circus.

 

I would think that if you sign a big contract with a team and perform poorly in the first season due to the pressure, you would probably feel even more pressure the second year to try to make up for such a poor first season.

 

There are so many outside factors that we most likely don't know about that makes it difficult to say that Renteria and Beltran didn't perform well because of pressure.

 

Based on the limited information we have, one might theorize that they just took it easy after signing those big contracts, not working as hard in the offseason to prepare since they just got their big payday.

[TruffleShuffle]

But knowing what I know about behaivor, I'd say it was quite a bit. Dusty and Hendry both basically said, "It's time to put out and produce or you won't get another shot" the last time he came back.

 

I would hope not. That's about the best way to make a guy pitch like crap.

[abuck1220]

Not sure if this has been posted, but the Cubs record for single-game Ks by a Left-Handed Pitcher is 12 by Jamie Moyer in this game in 1987. Moyer pitched 8 innings and walked 6.

 

Further surfing of retrosheet indicates that Holtzman matched that as a Cub a few times; Moyer's must be the most recent performance.

 

 

weird...i read in more than one place that hill broke the record of 10 held by steve wilson.

[CubColtPacer]

Not sure if this has been posted, but the Cubs record for single-game Ks by a Left-Handed Pitcher is 12 by Jamie Moyer in this game in 1987. Moyer pitched 8 innings and walked 6.

 

Further surfing of retrosheet indicates that Holtzman matched that as a Cub a few times; Moyer's must be the most recent performance.

 

 

weird...i read in more than one place that hill broke the record of 10 held by steve wilson.

 

Maybe you're thinking of the stat that Hill is the first Cubs lefthander to record 10+ strikeouts in a game since Steve Wilson in 1990?

[cubweiser03]

Hill has a better ERA than Marshall now. Damn, dudes come a long way. Marshall was 'ahead of him' at the beginning of the year, doesnt appear that way now.

[gflore34]

Hill has a better ERA than Marshall now. Damn, dudes come a long way. Marshall was 'ahead of him' at the beginning of the year, doesnt appear that way now.

 

I believe Hill' going to turn out to be the stronger of the two, a solid 3, maybe even a 2 someday. Don't see that for Marshall...

[Sammy Sofa]

Hill has a better ERA than Marshall now. Damn, dudes come a long way. Marshall was 'ahead of him' at the beginning of the year, doesnt appear that way now.

 

I believe Hill' going to turn out to be the stronger of the two, a solid 3, maybe even a 2 someday. Don't see that for Marshall...

 

I highly doubt many saw Marshall as more than a really good #4 at best...maybe a #3, but not likely.

 

But I could be mistaken.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Hill has a better ERA than Marshall now. Damn, dudes come a long way. Marshall was 'ahead of him' at the beginning of the year, doesnt appear that way now.

 

I believe Hill' going to turn out to be the stronger of the two, a solid 3, maybe even a 2 someday. Don't see that for Marshall...

 

I highly doubt many saw Marshall as more than a really good #4 at best...maybe a #3, but not likely.

 

But I could be mistaken.

 

Marshall's ceiling is higher than a back of the rotation guy. But you may have been talking about for this/next season, in which case I agree.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hill has a better ERA than Marshall now. Damn, dudes come a long way. Marshall was 'ahead of him' at the beginning of the year, doesnt appear that way now.

 

I believe Hill' going to turn out to be the stronger of the two, a solid 3, maybe even a 2 someday. Don't see that for Marshall...

 

I highly doubt many saw Marshall as more than a really good #4 at best...maybe a #3, but not likely.

 

But I could be mistaken.

 

Marshall's ceiling is higher than a back of the rotation guy. But you may have been talking about for this/next season, in which case I agree.

 

Definitely. Down the line, sure, who knows? Right now, that's not the case.

[Outshined_One]

Hill has a better ERA than Marshall now. Damn, dudes come a long way. Marshall was 'ahead of him' at the beginning of the year, doesnt appear that way now.

 

I believe Hill' going to turn out to be the stronger of the two, a solid 3, maybe even a 2 someday. Don't see that for Marshall...

 

I highly doubt many saw Marshall as more than a really good #4 at best...maybe a #3, but not likely.

 

But I could be mistaken.

 

I think you're mistaken. A lot of people saw Marshall as a potential 2/3 starter once he filled out a bit. Remember, coming into the season, most people saw him as a potential candidate to start at AA or AAA considering his limited experience at AA (I believe 10 games coming into the season?). He managed to do better than most expected, but he still is rough around the edges and still has room for improvement in some areas.