The Soccer Thread

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I didn't realize it was a "ever played in the MLS" statement. I thought it was referring only to those currently in the league.

[USSoccer]

I didn't realize it was a "ever played in the MLS" statement. I thought it was referring only to those currently in the league.

 

I guess I was addressing a different thing. Dave is of the opinion that MLS's lack of talent is responsible for our 2006 showing. I personally think that if you look at which players did what, you'll find that the players who played the poorest were mostly the European players. Of the MLS'rs, only Pope and Donovan crapped the bed. If the argument is that MLS is the reason that we were bad in 2006 relative to 2002, you can look at the roster and see that most of the players who played saw signifigant time in the league at one point or another. I can't see how you can look at that and conclude that MLS is the reason we haven't made "the leap" into the international elite.

 

Now, I don't agree with Dave that every talented player should leave MLS, but I do agree that the most talented players who have a chance at developing into legit international players should be sold.

[davecubsfan]

I hate to come off as being anti-MLS, because in reality, I do like MLS for what it is, a very minor league football association with no chance of ever becoming one of the world's elite as has been pushed by MLS. I watch the matches when they're on ESPN or Fox. MLS is viewed very differently on the world stage than it is in America. If MLS could somehow get some older Euro folks into it's league in the twilight of their careers (ie Becks, Ronaldo, Zidane, etc), then the rest of the world would begin to pay attention and the league would become more of a success. I also think MLS would be helped immensely if they'd drop the silly playoffs and instead adapt a league cup (like the English Cup) and have the finals of it be the last match of the year. MLS is trying to cater to the typical American Sports fan by having playoffs, and it's obvious that the typical American sports fan still isn't watching, so it hasn't worked. I would love to see promotion and relegation as well with some of the minor US clubs, but that won't ever happen either. One more thing that probably won't happen but would greatly increase the exposure of the league would be to join the Cup de Libertadores (ie the South American version of the Champion's League) That would give MLS exposure they desperately need with most of South America and watching, plus it would be nice to see how the MLS stacked up against Corinthians and some of the others. I can't remember if the Mexican League takes part in the cup or not, so if I left them out it was out of ignorance.

 

The reason I'd like to see all valuable Americans playing overseas is just the experience. I'm part of the crowd that believes that you play up to your competition, so better competition=better players. I'd much rather see the young members of our USMNT face off against Arsenal, Man U, Real Madrid, etc than to face lesser competition. I will say I have a bit of bias when it comes to Landon Donovan. I absolutely detest him.

[Marco4]

Well, as you'd say it, I'm now 0-4 watching Huddersfield Town this year; 9 points good for 19th in League One. Its going to be a long, long season.

[Mark Priors Calves]

There are some solid matchups in the Premiership Sunday.

 

Arsenal vs. Man U at Old Trafford

Chelsea vs. Liverpool at Stamford Bridge

 

I'd love for Chelsea to come out and play its best game against the Reds. Liverpool has played really well against Chelsea the past few years. Knocked them out of the Champions League, knocked them out of the FA Cup last year, and this year in the FA Shield match. Hopefully playing at home will give Chelsea a boost and come away with 3 points.

[Jon]

The Fire take on DC United today at 3 on ESPN2. Tune in after the Bears' victory.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Chicago takes a 1-0 lead on a Herron goal then the picture completely dies.

[Jon]

Chicago takes a 1-0 lead on a Herron goal then the picture completely dies.

I've got the Spanish radio station on (1200 AM in Chicago). I don't speak Spanish. Better than nothing, though.

 

Atrocious officiating in the first half.

 

Woo, the picture is back.

 

For now.

 

We'll see how long they can keep playing.

 

And as I say that, they clear the field.

[Jon]

Fire with a 1-0 win and 3 huge points!

 

DC United with two red cards in the second half.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bummer. Man, United has really slowed down after their amazing start.

[Mark Priors Calves]

Chelsea 1 Liverpool 0

Arsenal 1 Man U 0

 

Tiger Woods was at the Chelsea match, apparently he's golfing buddies with Shevshenko.

[USSoccer]

Nice win for the Fire 1-0 over DC, but marred by horrendous officiating. 2 United players were sent off for questionable fouls.

 

If MLS wants to continue to develop as a league, it needs to get better officials and learn how to protect creative players like Dempsey, Moreno, and Adu from the more clumsy style of play that the league offers.

[Marco4]

Bummer. Man, United has really slowed down after their amazing start.

 

That's the difference between easy games and hard games.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bummer. Man, United has really slowed down after their amazing start.

 

That's the difference between easy games and hard games.

 

I don't follow. I was referring to DC, not Manchester. Although in hindsight it's astonishingly poor wording on my part.

[hardcorecubfan]

Now that my daughter is at the age of more rules , that as coach I have to learn and teach, I have come to the realization how soccer can be made less boring to the American audience. TAKE AWAY OFF sides!!

 

Yes, what a momentum killer, I can't see any other rule that is such a bummer in any sport.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Now that my daughter is at the age of more rules , that as coach I have to learn and teach, I have come to the realization how soccer can be made less boring to the American audience. TAKE AWAY OFF sides!!

 

Yes, what a momentum killer, I can't see any other rule that is such a bummer in any sport.

 

First of all, anything as drastic as removing offsides isn't going to happen. The sport is wildly popular all over the world and the rules firmly entrenched, and I don't know of any widespread desire to eradicate offsides.

 

Secondly, and most importantly, eliminating offsides would do the opposite of what you intend. Instead of the cat and mouse game of trying to time runs into open space, you'd have defenses that packed way in, and not doing nearly as much on the offensive side of the ball. So what you'd see would be even more conservative than the play you see with offsides.

[goonys evil twin]

Now that my daughter is at the age of more rules , that as coach I have to learn and teach, I have come to the realization how soccer can be made less boring to the American audience. TAKE AWAY OFF sides!!

 

Yes, what a momentum killer, I can't see any other rule that is such a bummer in any sport.

 

First of all, anything as drastic as removing offsides isn't going to happen. The sport is wildly popular all over the world and the rules firmly entrenched, and I don't know of any widespread desire to eradicate offsides.

 

Secondly, and most importantly, eliminating offsides would do the opposite of what you intend. Instead of the cat and mouse game of trying to time runs into open space, you'd have defenses that packed way in, and not doing nearly as much on the offensive side of the ball. So what you'd see would be even more conservative than the play you see with offsides.

 

What about relaxing offsides as opposed to minimizing it? I don't understand the rule all that well, but from what I can tell, I agree with your theory of what would happen if it was eliminated. But what if you just gave a little more leeway to the offensive player? I've seen too many would-be exciting plays stopped by the rule, when all it really was was one player beating another. You shouldn't get punished for that.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Now that my daughter is at the age of more rules , that as coach I have to learn and teach, I have come to the realization how soccer can be made less boring to the American audience. TAKE AWAY OFF sides!!

 

Yes, what a momentum killer, I can't see any other rule that is such a bummer in any sport.

 

First of all, anything as drastic as removing offsides isn't going to happen. The sport is wildly popular all over the world and the rules firmly entrenched, and I don't know of any widespread desire to eradicate offsides.

 

Secondly, and most importantly, eliminating offsides would do the opposite of what you intend. Instead of the cat and mouse game of trying to time runs into open space, you'd have defenses that packed way in, and not doing nearly as much on the offensive side of the ball. So what you'd see would be even more conservative than the play you see with offsides.

 

What about relaxing offsides as opposed to minimizing it? I don't understand the rule all that well, but from what I can tell, I agree with your theory of what would happen if it was eliminated. But what if you just gave a little more leeway to the offensive player? I've seen too many would-be exciting plays stopped by the rule, when all it really was was one player beating another. You shouldn't get punished for that.

 

I don't know how much could be done to relax it, aside from maybe changing it from any part of the body being off to the full body being off, or maybe eliminating offsides inside the 18 or something like that. It does suck that a guy who runs past a player and just mistimes his run gets punished, but kind of like I referred to earlier, it serves to protect defensive players who get involved with the attack by pushing up.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't know how much could be done to relax it, aside from maybe changing it from any part of the body being off to the full body being off, or maybe eliminating offsides inside the 18 or something like that. It does suck that a guy who runs past a player and just mistimes his run gets punished, but kind of like I referred to earlier, it serves to protect defensive players who get involved with the attack by pushing up.

 

What if instead of part of the body or the full body, they gave them a yard? That still prevents cherry picking, and won't force defenders to pack it in tight. Or maybe it would, like I said, I don't really know much about the game.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't know how much could be done to relax it, aside from maybe changing it from any part of the body being off to the full body being off, or maybe eliminating offsides inside the 18 or something like that. It does suck that a guy who runs past a player and just mistimes his run gets punished, but kind of like I referred to earlier, it serves to protect defensive players who get involved with the attack by pushing up.

 

What if instead of part of the body or the full body, they gave them a yard? That still prevents cherry picking, and won't force defenders to pack it in tight. Or maybe it would, like I said, I don't really know much about the game.

 

I think that would make it exponentially harder to officiate, since most of the time it's one guy taking off in one direction and the other guy sliding forward in the opposite direction.

[soccer10k]

Now that my daughter is at the age of more rules , that as coach I have to learn and teach, I have come to the realization how soccer can be made less boring to the American audience. TAKE AWAY OFF sides!!

 

Yes, what a momentum killer, I can't see any other rule that is such a bummer in any sport.

 

First of all, anything as drastic as removing offsides isn't going to happen. The sport is wildly popular all over the world and the rules firmly entrenched, and I don't know of any widespread desire to eradicate offsides.

 

Secondly, and most importantly, eliminating offsides would do the opposite of what you intend. Instead of the cat and mouse game of trying to time runs into open space, you'd have defenses that packed way in, and not doing nearly as much on the offensive side of the ball. So what you'd see would be even more conservative than the play you see with offsides.

 

What about relaxing offsides as opposed to minimizing it? I don't understand the rule all that well, but from what I can tell, I agree with your theory of what would happen if it was eliminated. But what if you just gave a little more leeway to the offensive player? I've seen too many would-be exciting plays stopped by the rule, when all it really was was one player beating another. You shouldn't get punished for that.

 

I don't really think there is a way to relax the rule so to speak. Either you are offsides or your aren't. There really isn't a middle ground that you could get rid off. I understand why a lot of people don't fully understand the rule because it is fairly complicated. I was a soccer referee for a few years and did youth leagues for ages from U-10 to U-14 and I routinely had parents that didn't understand the rule shouting at me because they didn't understand it. Offsides is a judgement call right now which is makes it hard to call and therefore creates controversy.

[soccer10k]

I don't know how much could be done to relax it, aside from maybe changing it from any part of the body being off to the full body being off, or maybe eliminating offsides inside the 18 or something like that. It does suck that a guy who runs past a player and just mistimes his run gets punished, but kind of like I referred to earlier, it serves to protect defensive players who get involved with the attack by pushing up.

 

What if instead of part of the body or the full body, they gave them a yard? That still prevents cherry picking, and won't force defenders to pack it in tight. Or maybe it would, like I said, I don't really know much about the game.

 

I think that would make it exponentially harder to officiate, since most of the time it's one guy taking off in one direction and the other guy sliding forward in the opposite direction.

 

Yeah, the one yard would make it much tougher because it's hard to tell what one yard is from 50 feet away. Right now either you are past the defender or not, which IMO makes it easier to call. You're right TT in that making it one yard would make offsides way harder to call.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't know how much could be done to relax it, aside from maybe changing it from any part of the body being off to the full body being off, or maybe eliminating offsides inside the 18 or something like that. It does suck that a guy who runs past a player and just mistimes his run gets punished, but kind of like I referred to earlier, it serves to protect defensive players who get involved with the attack by pushing up.

 

What if instead of part of the body or the full body, they gave them a yard? That still prevents cherry picking, and won't force defenders to pack it in tight. Or maybe it would, like I said, I don't really know much about the game.

 

I think that would make it exponentially harder to officiate, since most of the time it's one guy taking off in one direction and the other guy sliding forward in the opposite direction.

 

Yeah, the one yard would make it much tougher because it's hard to tell what one yard is from 50 feet away. Right now either you are past the defender or not, which IMO makes it easier to call. You're right TT in that making it one yard would make offsides way harder to call.

 

Maybe that's a good thing, with the blatant ones getting called and the close ones, that are more about one athlete beating another as opposed to cheating, only getting called sometime.

 

But then again, why can't you just keep a ref back with the deepest players at all time. Sure that's tough in kid's leagues, but at higher levels it shouldn't be a problem, and that's where you'd want more crisp officiating anyway.

[soccer10k]

I don't know how much could be done to relax it, aside from maybe changing it from any part of the body being off to the full body being off, or maybe eliminating offsides inside the 18 or something like that. It does suck that a guy who runs past a player and just mistimes his run gets punished, but kind of like I referred to earlier, it serves to protect defensive players who get involved with the attack by pushing up.

 

What if instead of part of the body or the full body, they gave them a yard? That still prevents cherry picking, and won't force defenders to pack it in tight. Or maybe it would, like I said, I don't really know much about the game.

 

I think that would make it exponentially harder to officiate, since most of the time it's one guy taking off in one direction and the other guy sliding forward in the opposite direction.

 

Yeah, the one yard would make it much tougher because it's hard to tell what one yard is from 50 feet away. Right now either you are past the defender or not, which IMO makes it easier to call. You're right TT in that making it one yard would make offsides way harder to call.

 

Maybe that's a good thing, with the blatant ones getting called and the close ones, that are more about one athlete beating another as opposed to cheating, only getting called sometime.

 

But then again, why can't you just keep a ref back with the deepest players at all time. Sure that's tough in kid's leagues, but at higher levels it shouldn't be a problem, and that's where you'd want more crisp officiating anyway.

 

The linesmen are supposed to be even with the last defender for each teams so they can make the offsides call.

[goonys evil twin]

The linesmen are supposed to be even with the last defender for each teams so they can make the offsides call.

 

If that's true, I don't see why it would be any harder to call a guy offsides based on being past or being a yard past.