Mariners trade Moyer to Phillies

[Andy]

Link

Looks like he'll debut against the Cubs.

[stitchface]

how are the cubs against soft tossing lefties? :roll:

[ToupeeOnFire]

Link

Looks like he'll debut against the Cubs.

One of the truly bad Cub trades:

Rafael Palmeiro and Jamie Moyer for Mitch Williams, Curtis Wilkerson, Paul Kilgus and a bunch of crap

 

The modern day equivalent would be like trading Matt Murton and Sean Marshall to KC for Ambiorix Burgos, Angeal Berroa, Mark Redman and a collection of C- or lower minor leaguers. It does not seem like such a bad trade on the surface, but ultimately it comes down to trading two major leaguers with upside for a talented, but erractic reliever and a bunch of refuse.

[NCCubFan]

One of the truly bad Cub trades:

Rafael Palmeiro and Jamie Moyer for Mitch Williams, Curtis Wilkerson, Paul Kilgus and a bunch of crap.

I wouldn't rate the trade as bad as you do. In the long run it certainly favored Texas, but the Cubs would not have won the division in 1989 without Wild Thing. Sometimes a trade can help a team in the short run but hurt in the long run. I think a better comparison might be John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander. In the long run that trade clearly favored the Braves, but in the short run Alexander helped the Tigers win the division that year (I think it was 1987, but I'm not positive).

[NorthsideAvenger]

Link

Looks like he'll debut against the Cubs.

One of the truly bad Cub trades:

Rafael Palmeiro and Jamie Moyer for Mitch Williams, Curtis Wilkerson, Paul Kilgus and a bunch of crap

 

The modern day equivalent would be like trading Matt Murton and Sean Marshall to KC for Ambiorix Burgos, Angeal Berroa, Mark Redman and a collection of C- or lower minor leaguers. It does not seem like such a bad trade on the surface, but ultimately it comes down to trading two major leaguers with upside for a talented, but erractic reliever and a bunch of refuse.

 

You are overblowing a bit. I like Murton and Marshall, but in noway would trading both of them being equal to that of the Cubs trading Moyer and Palmeiro. Palmeiro is still a HOF (regardless of his final yr bein gunder suspicion) and Murton will never be consider anything more then a nice Paul O'Neill type complimentary player. And while Marshall and Moyer could be "realisitically" compatability, it doesn't make up the difference in value between Murton and Palmeiro.

[ToupeeOnFire]

One of the truly bad Cub trades:

Rafael Palmeiro and Jamie Moyer for Mitch Williams, Curtis Wilkerson, Paul Kilgus and a bunch of crap.

I wouldn't rate the trade as bad as you do. In the long run it certainly favored Texas, but the Cubs would not have won the division in 1989 without Wild Thing. Sometimes a trade can help a team in the short run but hurt in the long run. I think a better comparison might be John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander. In the long run that trade clearly favored the Braves, but in the short run Alexander helped the Tigers win the division that year (I think it was 1987, but I'm not positive).

The thing is, I don't thing it would have been all that difficult to find a pitcher that would have filled Wild Thing's shoes. If anything, the real star in that Cub bullpen was Len Lancaster, and I can remember him bailing out Mitch Williams on more than one occasion. Mitch Williams only looked irreplacable because the Cubs had to suffer with a washed up Goose Gossage the year previous. Of course, they wouldn't have been in that position if they hadn't given away Lee Smith for nothing.

[NCCubFan]

Of course, they wouldn't have been in that position if they hadn't given away Lee Smith for nothing.

That's for sure. That was the trade I'd rate as the worst since I've been a Cub fan (1969). If they had both Smith and Palmeiro on the team they would have been quite tough to beat.

 

On the other hand, I think both Smith and Palmeiro were players Sandberg wanted gone (I believe both were among Cindy Sandberg's conquests :D ).

[bhogg]

Was Lee's middle name Jose?

 

I thought Ryno's woman had an affection for the latino ball player.

 

I had heard Lee Smith was one of her men. Of course, I should be surprised. She apparently boinked every member of the team not named Gene Michael.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Was Lee's middle name Jose?

 

I thought Ryno's woman had an affection for the latino ball player.

 

I had heard Lee Smith was one of her men. Of course, I should be surprised. She apparently boinked every member of the team not named Gene Michael.

 

I wouldn't be so sure that Gene didn't get a piece either.

[bhogg]

I know it's terrible of me, but I'd love to know more about the alleged players that Sandberg gave the Cubs ultimatums on. It blows my mind that if all of this crap were true , that good ol' Ryno couldn't just tell his whore wife to leave town. I'm sure some is true and some isn't.

 

 

The Cubs could have been incredibly kick ass if they could have held on to a core of Sandberg, Dawson, Grace, Palmeiro, Maddux, Sutcliffe, and Lee Smith.

[UMFan83]

LOL, now the Phillies are buyers

[chopsx9]

I have always heard bits and pieces of the Cindy Sandberg story. I had heard Palmiero and Dave Martinez (I think). I had not heard Lee Smith. Would anyone be willing to give an account of what happened or a link if it is somewhere else?

 

You would think that ballplayers have an easy enough time getting women (and I don't recall Cindy being especially stunning or anything) that they would have enough fortitude to stay away from teammates wives'.

 

Was Sandberg not well liked in the clubhouse?

 

I can understand one or two but it sounds like Cindy was the pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving - every one has at least a little piece - just 'cause its there.

[bhogg]

That's the thing about the Sandberg deal. . . it's always "I've heard." I've never read anything credible about it. I do believe that where there's smoke, there's fire, but the deal is probably not as bad as it has been rumored. . . . . still, it can't be good either.

 

One thing to consider is that Ryno was good, but not (in my mind) good enough to demand the Cubs trade Palmeiro in 1988. Ryno was my sports hero growing up, but Raffy had the better 87 and 88.

 

I just can't imagine a player telling a team what to do --- especially when that player has the supposed persona of a field mouse.

[jjgman21]

That's the thing about the Sandberg deal. . . it's always "I've heard." I've never read anything credible about it. I do believe that where there's smoke, there's fire, but the deal is probably not as bad as it has been rumored. . . . . still, it can't be good either.

 

One thing to consider is that Ryno was good, but not (in my mind) good enough to demand the Cubs trade Palmeiro in 1988. Ryno was my sports hero growing up, but Raffy had the better 87 and 88.

 

I just can't imagine a player telling a team what to do --- especially when that player has the supposed persona of a field mouse.

 

one thing that people lose site of is that Palmiero was a terrible outfielder and the Cubs already had a decent young first baseman who wasn't bonin' the face of the organization's wife. furthermore, the Cubs also had a guy mashing in the minor leagues who was ready to take over in the OF, Dwight Smith.

 

I also think bashing the Cubs for trading Jamie Moyer is absurd. I for one would not have wanted to suffer through his 89-92 waiting for his 1993

[bhogg]

I didn't realize Dwight was that high of a prospect. Of course, I was only 12 when Dwight came up in '89. I had no clue who the cub's prospects were.

 

There are so many weird things surrounding that era of cubs baseball.

 

Heck, didn't Raffy name one of his kids after Sandberg? That had to be weird for Ryno.

 

Maybe someday the truth will come out. . . . it'll be an interesting story to read, no doubt about it.

 

 

I wonder if Cindy was getting any from Hector Villanueva?

 

 

 

As for Moyer, I was young when he came up, too. However, I recall not being happy when I'd turn on WGN and see he was starting a game. He was brutal. I'm glad he finally figured it out, but I was never sad to see him get out of Chicago.

[J.R.]

It was said at the time that Sandberg quit in '94 to tend to those "family matters," and in turn also trashed his 1995.

 

It's a shame that his career was interrupted for that piece of trash.