Mateo Bandwagon, plus Baker says something good for once...

[Jehrico]

First, Clemens tries to bean Jones, and misses. Then he succeeded. Later, Jones got revenge by hitting a 3 run HR off of him. Mateo also extracted some additional revenge by plunking Clemens when it was his turn to bat, earning many cool points with me. Dusty pulled Mateo in the 6th for a PH after just 78 pitches in 5 innings (probably so he wouldn't get beaned in the pitching arm by Clemens). Clemens just missed Theriot with the first pitch, then grazed his uniform with the second. In response to the attempted beanings by Clemens...

"Roger used to be … he threw one behind Jacque early. Roger used to be better at hitting the target.”

 

Touch'e

 

I have no lost love for the Astros...beating them in an 18 inning marathon after all of that just made this one that much sweeter

[snoodmonger]

haha, good one dusty

[CuseCubFan69]

I give Baker credit for taking the kid out. You know Clemens was going to hit him while not getting kicked out for some reason. I knew Baker was going to put Theriot up to hit for Mateo though and I was hoping Roit would be able to dodge the fastballs which he did pretty well!

[biittner77]

I wonder how many more times Clemens will get beaned this season. It seems like people were afraid to do it because of his HOF credentials and blah blah blah. Now that Mateo has done it I bet Clemens gets drilled at least a few more times this season.

 

At least I hope so.

[C.C.]

I loved it! And now I hope we sweep these guys. Can't stand Houston or St. Louis...

[hardcorecubfan]

I give Baker credit for taking the kid out. You know Clemens was going to hit him while not getting kicked out for some reason. I knew Baker was going to put Theriot up to hit for Mateo though and I was hoping Roit would be able to dodge the fastballs which he did pretty well!

 

I don't, should have kept him in for another inning or two, let's see what the kid can do. Baker wasn't worried about a proven star why should he have worried about a kid whose biggest highlight will be beating Rocket Roger? It's a plunk in the back he could have taken it. Besides it would have looked too obvious and Roger would have been tossed.

[UMFan83]

I give Baker credit for taking the kid out. You know Clemens was going to hit him while not getting kicked out for some reason. I knew Baker was going to put Theriot up to hit for Mateo though and I was hoping Roit would be able to dodge the fastballs which he did pretty well!

 

Credit? The kid was cruising. 78 pitches through 5 innings with a 3 run lead. If he is worried about Mateo getting beaned, then tell him not to hit Clemens in the first place.

 

Dusty takes Mateo out and Wuertzman promptly goes out there and blows it. Now the entire bullpen is tired from playing 18 innings. I know if the bullpen shut the Astros down for 4 innings I wouldn't be saying this, but the fact of the matter is they did, just shining a light on another bonehead Dusty move.

[chuckywang]

First, Clemens tries to bean Jones, and misses.

 

When did this happen? Clemens beaned Jones in his first plate appearance.

 

BTW, I absolutely love having nothing to play for and totally demoralizing teams in the playoff hunt. There is something sadistic about that, I know, but it's a good feeling. Of course, I would love it even more if we were in the playoff hunt to begin with, but given the circumstances, I couldn't feel better.

[CuseCubFan69]

I see and understand why Dusty did it and the pen should be able to hold a 3 run lead. Also, do we know if Mateo was gassed and told Baker? I think Baker was trying to do a decent thing for the kid and I give him credit for that.

[YearofDaCubs]

Clemens' antics do not surprise me and I was glad to see him get pluncked.

[goonys evil twin]

Dusty takes Mateo out and Wuertzman promptly goes out there and blows it.

 

Ohman was the one who replaced Mateo, and allowed the two runners that scored on that crap pop fly that Minute Maid and Pagan played into a triple.

 

 

I liked reading that quote from Dusty this morning. So much better than the typical "tip your cap" stuff.

[CuseCubFan69]

I give Baker credit for taking the kid out. You know Clemens was going to hit him while not getting kicked out for some reason. I knew Baker was going to put Theriot up to hit for Mateo though and I was hoping Roit would be able to dodge the fastballs which he did pretty well!

 

Credit? The kid was cruising. 78 pitches through 5 innings with a 3 run lead. If he is worried about Mateo getting beaned, then tell him not to hit Clemens in the first place.

 

Dusty takes Mateo out and Wuertzman promptly goes out there and blows it. Now the entire bullpen is tired from playing 18 innings. I know if the bullpen shut the Astros down for 4 innings I wouldn't be saying this, but the fact of the matter is they did, just shining a light on another bonehead Dusty move.

 

I saw Ohman get lit up before Weurtz. I don't have a problem with the move in the least. Yeah, in hindsight it went 18 which happens once in a blue moon so it looks worse. I think the pen should be able to hold that type of lead.

[goonys evil twin]

I see and understand why Dusty did it and the pen should be able to hold a 3 run lead. Also, do we know if Mateo was gassed and told Baker? I think Baker was trying to do a decent thing for the kid and I give him credit for that.

 

Mateo last started Aug 3, he was shifted to the BP and had a short outing Aug 10. Pulling him was the responsible thing to do, given his usage pattern leading up to this start. You can't have guys throwing 90-100 pitches on inconsistent basis.

[CubColtPacer]

I give Baker credit for taking the kid out. You know Clemens was going to hit him while not getting kicked out for some reason. I knew Baker was going to put Theriot up to hit for Mateo though and I was hoping Roit would be able to dodge the fastballs which he did pretty well!

 

Credit? The kid was cruising. 78 pitches through 5 innings with a 3 run lead. If he is worried about Mateo getting beaned, then tell him not to hit Clemens in the first place.

 

I agree with this. I had no problem with Dusty taking Mateo out before he got hit-what I had the problem with is if the beaning of Clemens was intentional with Mateo coming up the next inning. Now though-he had 78 pitches. How many pitches are we trying to limit the arms to? I would have been fine with him going another inning. The likelihood is that he would have been around 100 pitches after the 6th (more pitches because the middle of the lineup was coming up in the 6th for the Astros). So it was a situation where I think you have to take a pitcher like Mateo and have him possibly pitch close to 100 pitches (hopefully he gets out of the inning earlier then that)-the bullpen needs the rest desperately without putting too much strain on his arm (don't go over 100 for sure).

 

Does anybody know if we are bringing up one pitcher or two today, and who they are replacing? If it's just one-let's say he replaces one of the unavailable guys for today-it still could be only Ohman, Wuertz, Howry, Aardsma, and possibly Novoa in the bullpen today (Erye, Dempster, and Guz are probably all unavailable). Unless they decide Erye is going on the DL, they are probably going to have to send Guz or Mateo down to make room for O'Malley-there is just nobody else to send down today (you could send Aardsma down, but then you're really playing with fire)

 

Reason for Edit: I was just clarifying my point at the end of the first paragraph-it was unclear.

Edited August 16, 2006 by CubColtPacer

[UMFan83]

Dusty takes Mateo out and Wuertzman promptly goes out there and blows it.

 

Ohman was the one who replaced Mateo, and allowed the two runners that scored on that crap pop fly that Minute Maid and Pagan played into a triple.

 

 

I liked reading that quote from Dusty this morning. So much better than the typical "tip your cap" stuff.

 

Wuertzman is a (not) clever combo of Wuertz and Ohman. I would have placed their names in the order they appeared, but Ohuertz doesn't sound right :)

[goonys evil twin]

Wuertzman is a (not) clever combo of Wuertz and Ohman. I would have placed their names in the order they appeared, but Ohuertz doesn't sound right :)

 

Maybe not, but it sounds more clever.

[UMFan83]

I see and understand why Dusty did it and the pen should be able to hold a 3 run lead. Also, do we know if Mateo was gassed and told Baker? I think Baker was trying to do a decent thing for the kid and I give him credit for that.

 

Mateo last started Aug 3, he was shifted to the BP and had a short outing Aug 10. Pulling him was the responsible thing to do, given his usage pattern leading up to this start. You can't have guys throwing 90-100 pitches on inconsistent basis.

 

Good point. However, not sure if you subscribe to the stress pitch philosophy, but I don't recall a lot of Mateo's 78 pitches being with a lot of stress. What did he have like 4 baserunners in 5 innings? He looked like he was cruising. If he was missing pitches all over the place and living on the edge, thats one thing. Other then the hit batter, I'm pretty sure his last 2 innings were 1-2-3 innings.

 

I think Dusty went to the bullpen to protect his pitcher, and I don't agree with that. If in fact he pulled him for other reasons, likely because of PC and the fact that his bullpen was rested, I still don't necessarily agree with that. Don't use the bullpen unless you need to. Dusty didn't need to last night, and now he has pretty much no pen for today with a rookie making his debut on the hill.

[hawkeyecub]

I see and understand why Dusty did it and the pen should be able to hold a 3 run lead. Also, do we know if Mateo was gassed and told Baker? I think Baker was trying to do a decent thing for the kid and I give him credit for that.

 

Mateo last started Aug 3, he was shifted to the BP and had a short outing Aug 10. Pulling him was the responsible thing to do, given his usage pattern leading up to this start. You can't have guys throwing 90-100 pitches on inconsistent basis.

 

Exactly, it was the right move by Dusty. 78 pitches through 5 was the right time to pull him based on how he's been worked in the last two weeks and the fact that he was obviously going to get plunked. Plus it lets the kid feel good about himself and got a lot of respect in the clubhouse.

 

All things considered, I thought Dusty did a pretty good job last night.

[goonys evil twin]

I see and understand why Dusty did it and the pen should be able to hold a 3 run lead. Also, do we know if Mateo was gassed and told Baker? I think Baker was trying to do a decent thing for the kid and I give him credit for that.

 

Mateo last started Aug 3, he was shifted to the BP and had a short outing Aug 10. Pulling him was the responsible thing to do, given his usage pattern leading up to this start. You can't have guys throwing 90-100 pitches on inconsistent basis.

 

Good point. However, not sure if you subscribe to the stress pitch philosophy, but I don't recall a lot of Mateo's 78 pitches being with a lot of stress. What did he have like 4 baserunners in 5 innings? He looked like he was cruising. If he was missing pitches all over the place and living on the edge, thats one thing. Other then the hit batter, I'm pretty sure his last 2 innings were 1-2-3 innings.

 

I think Dusty went to the bullpen to protect his pitcher, and I don't agree with that. If in fact he pulled him for other reasons, likely because of PC and the fact that his bullpen was rested, I still don't necessarily agree with that. Don't use the bullpen unless you need to. Dusty didn't need to last night, and now he has pretty much no pen for today with a rookie making his debut on the hill.

 

That is exactly why you pull a starting pitcher, especially a very young starting pitcher with very limited experience. Let him leave with a lead, don't wait for him to get into trouble. Besides, I wouldn't exactly call it cruising, I saw some pretty hard hit balls last night (although I didn't watch all of it). I was getting the sense that Houston was about to unload on Mateo the third time through the lineup.

 

I like to pay attention to the stress pitch philosophy, but just because a guy wasn't throwing with the bases loaded and the game on the line all game long doesn't mean that nearly 80 pitches didn't have an effect on a guy who hadn't gone that long in 2 weeks. When you have a 8-man bullpen (the Cubs had gone to a 4/8 before the game), with 7 of them coming back from a day off, several with more than 1 day rest, there was absolutely no reason to be shy about going to the bullpen.

[stitchface]

If he was missing pitches all over the place and living on the edge, thats one thing

 

I think it was proven the night before that in this scenario, you leave the young pitcher in.

[UMFan83]

If he was missing pitches all over the place and living on the edge, thats one thing

 

I think it was proven the night before that in this scenario, you leave the young pitcher in.

 

Z? If that's what you are referring to, thats a whole different animal. When those rookies prove they can allow a .205 BAA, then they can throw all the walks that they want.

[wastra]

While I wouldn't call it the "textbook" move to pull him after fewer than 80 pitches, I can't get myself riled up over it, as he actually had some legit reasons to do it.

 

It may be a bit questionable, but it's not asinine or anything like that (as most of Dusty's comments and decisions tend to be), and in some ways a pretty good move at the time.

[Soriano12]

I'm not complaining about pulling Mateo.

 

Dusty's main gaff was leaving Weurtz in too long.

 

It was obvious that he simply didn't have it last night.

 

The Cubs probably should have lost last night thanks to Dusty..yet he gets bailed out by the guy he hates..Murton.

 

The irony.

[USSoccer]

I give Baker credit for taking the kid out. You know Clemens was going to hit him while not getting kicked out for some reason. I knew Baker was going to put Theriot up to hit for Mateo though and I was hoping Roit would be able to dodge the fastballs which he did pretty well!

 

I don't, should have kept him in for another inning or two, let's see what the kid can do. Baker wasn't worried about a proven star why should he have worried about a kid whose biggest highlight will be beating Rocket Roger? It's a plunk in the back he could have taken it. Besides it would have looked too obvious and Roger would have been tossed.

 

HCCF, I have to disagree. If we're going to rip Baker for his irresponsible usage of Prior and Wood in 2003, and Z this year, then I'm going to give him credit for pulling a young, developing pitcher after 78 last night. He threw well, why extend him another 15-20 pitches if you don't have to? Why risk uneccesary wear and tear?

 

Baker did the right thing. Now, if he pulled him not to protect his arm but because he thought Clemens would hit him, he still did the right thing, albiet for the wrong reason.

[Jehrico]

First, Clemens tries to bean Jones, and misses.

 

When did this happen? Clemens beaned Jones in his first plate appearance.

 

 

I thought he missed him, then hit him on the next pitch that at bat...or was I hallucinating after 18 innings?