Preseason NCAA Coaches Poll

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't believe that Iowa and WSU were auto top 6 bids that year, but my memory may be off. It could also be off as I thought in one of the first few years of the BCS they weren't invited when they could've been.

[CubColtPacer]

Come on now, you know that when ND is eligible it's just as good as them automatically getting in. :) No bowl turns ND down.

 

Except for the 2 times that they were turned down from BCS.

 

Would you like to provide the years that they were eligible for the BCS and got turned down? Since the BCS has been in existence, Notre Dame has been eligible 3 times-2000, 2002, 2005-they've been invited twice

 

Edit: Actually, my mistake on this one. I originally thought they had been invited all 3 times, but then I realized that they had not been invited in 02 with 9 wins-the more I think about it though, I seem to remember that there was no choice-there were no at large bids available that year, as Iowa and Washington State both got in automatically due to their top 6 BCS ranking, even though they were both the second best team in thier conference (Ohio State and USC were above those two). So ND had no chance to be invited that year)-so they were invited both times the bowls had a spot to give them.

 

I knew they wouldn't turn you media darlings down. :P

 

Hey, at least ND has had a quality team every time-unlike BCS teams like Pittsburgh, and Florida State (of course, not their NC year-but they've made it at least twice when they were an average team at best with 3 or 4 losses on the season already). ND is forced to be at least on par with the top at large teams out there to get a bid, and their getting selected when eligible negates the disadvantage they have to other teams with never being able to sneak into a big bowl with several losses.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't believe that Iowa and WSU were auto top 6 bids that year, but my memory may be off. It could also be off as I thought in one of the first few years of the BCS they weren't invited when they could've been.

 

No problem..yeah, I acutally looked it up about an hour ago. Iowa finished 5th I believe, and WSU was 6th..ND finished 9th that year, but couldn't get invited. You may be right on 1998 though-they finished with 9 wins, but they didn't finish in the top 15 of the BCS-I'm not sure what the eligibility requirements were back then, so I can't be sure if they were eligible or not that year. That was of course the first year of the BCS, so they might have changed some things from then (Wow-that was a while ago-that was the Jarious Jackson year if I'm remembering right when he got hurt on the last play against LSU right before USC).

[dew1679666265]

Come on now, you know that when ND is eligible it's just as good as them automatically getting in. :) No bowl turns ND down.

 

Except for the 2 times that they were turned down from BCS.

 

Would you like to provide the years that they were eligible for the BCS and got turned down? Since the BCS has been in existence, Notre Dame has been eligible 3 times-2000, 2002, 2005-they've been invited twice

 

Edit: Actually, my mistake on this one. I originally thought they had been invited all 3 times, but then I realized that they had not been invited in 02 with 9 wins-the more I think about it though, I seem to remember that there was no choice-there were no at large bids available that year, as Iowa and Washington State both got in automatically due to their top 6 BCS ranking, even though they were both the second best team in thier conference (Ohio State and USC were above those two). So ND had no chance to be invited that year)-so they were invited both times the bowls had a spot to give them.

 

I knew they wouldn't turn you media darlings down. :P

 

Hey, at least ND has had a quality team every time-unlike BCS teams like Pittsburgh, and Florida State (of course, not their NC year-but they've made it at least twice when they were an average team at best with 3 or 4 losses on the season already). ND is forced to be at least on par with the top at large teams out there to get a bid, and their getting selected when eligible negates the disadvantage they have to other teams with never being able to sneak into a big bowl with several losses.

 

Of course if you joined a conference none of that would be an issue, hehe. ND will never do that though, not with how pretty their sitting now with NBC and everything else. I still say a playoff system solves all issues.

[hawkeyecub]

I don't believe that Iowa and WSU were auto top 6 bids that year, but my memory may be off. It could also be off as I thought in one of the first few years of the BCS they weren't invited when they could've been.

 

No problem..yeah, I acutally looked it up about an hour ago. Iowa finished 5th I believe, and WSU was 6th..ND finished 9th that year, but couldn't get invited. You may be right on 1998 though-they finished with 9 wins, but they didn't finish in the top 15 of the BCS-I'm not sure what the eligibility requirements were back then, so I can't be sure if they were eligible or not that year. That was of course the first year of the BCS, so they might have changed some things from then (Wow-that was a while ago-that was the Jarious Jackson year if I'm remembering right when he got hurt on the last play against LSU right before USC).

 

Iowa was 4th that year behind Miami, OSU and USC so they had the automatic bid. Also that year I think Washington State got the automatic bid to the Rose Bowl as Pac-10 champs. They tied with USC but beat them in the head-to-head meeting.

 

So I believe Iowa and USC were locked in as the automatic at-large teams by finishing 3rd and 4th in the BCS. Iowa was 11-1, USC was 10-2 and Notre Dame was 10-2 but got destroyed by USC in the last game (thanks for handing Palmer the Heisman). They didn't have much of a case that year and I can't really remember a year where they were deserving but were left out.

[soccer10k]

I don't believe that Iowa and WSU were auto top 6 bids that year, but my memory may be off. It could also be off as I thought in one of the first few years of the BCS they weren't invited when they could've been.

 

No problem..yeah, I acutally looked it up about an hour ago. Iowa finished 5th I believe, and WSU was 6th..ND finished 9th that year, but couldn't get invited. You may be right on 1998 though-they finished with 9 wins, but they didn't finish in the top 15 of the BCS-I'm not sure what the eligibility requirements were back then, so I can't be sure if they were eligible or not that year. That was of course the first year of the BCS, so they might have changed some things from then (Wow-that was a while ago-that was the Jarious Jackson year if I'm remembering right when he got hurt on the last play against LSU right before USC).

 

Iowa was 4th that year behind Miami, OSU and USC so they had the automatic bid. Also that year I think Washington State got the automatic bid to the Rose Bowl as Pac-10 champs. They tied with USC but beat them in the head-to-head meeting.

 

So I believe Iowa and USC were locked in as the automatic at-large teams by finishing 3rd and 4th in the BCS. Iowa was 11-1, USC was 10-2 and Notre Dame was 10-2 but got destroyed by USC in the last game (thanks for handing Palmer the Heisman). They didn't have much of a case that year and I can't really remember a year where they were deserving but were left out.

 

2002 Final BCS Standings

 

Iowa was fifth behind Miami, Ohio State, Georgia and USC. Like you said, WSU beat USC and got the Pac-10 automatic bid. But USC and Iowa were both in the top-6 and got the at-large bids. Pretty much, it all came down to the Notre Dame-USC game. The winner would get the at-large BCS bid.

[hawkeyecub]

You're right, I forgot about Georgia. We were third in both polls, but I was thinking it was just USC that jumped us in the BCS.

[C.C.]

Any DePaul fans? I think they are going to hold their own this year in the Big East...

[Andy]

Any DePaul fans? I think they are going to hold their own this year in the Big East...

They probably have to have a team first.

[C.C.]

Any DePaul fans? I think they are going to hold their own this year in the Big East...

They probably have to have a team first.

 

Hey now! They did pretty well last year for a very young team. I think they will get in the Tourney this year.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Any DePaul fans? I think they are going to hold their own this year in the Big East...

They probably have to have a team first.

 

Hey now! They did pretty well last year for a very young team. I think they will get in the Tourney this year.

 

Umm...football?

[C.C.]

Any DePaul fans? I think they are going to hold their own this year in the Big East...

They probably have to have a team first.

 

Hey now! They did pretty well last year for a very young team. I think they will get in the Tourney this year.

 

Umm...football?

 

This thread is football? Sheez! I feel like a a$$! I thought you guys where talking hoops. Oops.. I guess I didn't read the thread good enough. Sorry 'bout that. I know nothing about college football...So carry on gents!

[NCCubFan]

This thread is football? Sheez! I feel like a a$$! I thought you guys where talking hoops. Oops.. I guess I didn't read the thread good enough. Sorry 'bout that. I know nothing about college football...So carry on gents!

Yeah, as early as preseason polls come out, I doubt the preseason basketball poll has come out THIS early. :D

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Senior WR Joe Cowan, UCLA's leading returning receiver will probably miss the season with a torn ligament in his knee which he suffered in practice last week. :(

[jjgman21]

 

Hey, at least ND has had a quality team every time-unlike BCS teams like Pittsburgh, and Florida State (of course, not their NC year-but they've made it at least twice when they were an average team at best with 3 or 4 losses on the season already). ND is forced to be at least on par with the top at large teams out there to get a bid, and their getting selected when eligible negates the disadvantage they have to other teams with never being able to sneak into a big bowl with several losses.

 

it's difficult to have sympathy for them. they made their bed, they have to lay in it. they could've become part of a conference long ago, but remaining independant just brings in too much money with no need to share the revenue with other teams.

 

they have a choice, not be so greedy or continue having difficulty getting the at large bid.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Hey, at least ND has had a quality team every time-unlike BCS teams like Pittsburgh, and Florida State (of course, not their NC year-but they've made it at least twice when they were an average team at best with 3 or 4 losses on the season already). ND is forced to be at least on par with the top at large teams out there to get a bid, and their getting selected when eligible negates the disadvantage they have to other teams with never being able to sneak into a big bowl with several losses.

 

it's difficult to have sympathy for them. they made their bed, they have to lay in it. they could've become part of a conference long ago, but remaining independant just brings in too much money with no need to share the revenue with other teams.

 

they have a choice, not be so greedy or continue having difficulty getting the at large bid.

 

I don't really think he was complaining about ND's process, just explaining that it's not the cake walk into the BCS that so many antis like to portray it as.

[CubColtPacer]

 

Hey, at least ND has had a quality team every time-unlike BCS teams like Pittsburgh, and Florida State (of course, not their NC year-but they've made it at least twice when they were an average team at best with 3 or 4 losses on the season already). ND is forced to be at least on par with the top at large teams out there to get a bid, and their getting selected when eligible negates the disadvantage they have to other teams with never being able to sneak into a big bowl with several losses.

 

it's difficult to have sympathy for them. they made their bed, they have to lay in it. they could've become part of a conference long ago, but remaining independant just brings in too much money with no need to share the revenue with other teams.

 

they have a choice, not be so greedy or continue having difficulty getting the at large bid.

 

I don't really think he was complaining about ND's process, just explaining that it's not the cake walk into the BCS that so many antis like to portray it as.

 

Yup-I'm not complaining whatsoever other than to refute the assumption that ND gets special treatment just because they are ND, as many of the people around the country have said in the past (Oregon last year for example). ND has an advantage in getting selected when they are eligible, and it balances nicely with the disadvantage they have of not ever being able to get in due to winning a conference in a down year. Those balance out to the point that I think it is fair for everyone.

[jjgman21]

 

Hey, at least ND has had a quality team every time-unlike BCS teams like Pittsburgh, and Florida State (of course, not their NC year-but they've made it at least twice when they were an average team at best with 3 or 4 losses on the season already). ND is forced to be at least on par with the top at large teams out there to get a bid, and their getting selected when eligible negates the disadvantage they have to other teams with never being able to sneak into a big bowl with several losses.

 

it's difficult to have sympathy for them. they made their bed, they have to lay in it. they could've become part of a conference long ago, but remaining independant just brings in too much money with no need to share the revenue with other teams.

 

they have a choice, not be so greedy or continue having difficulty getting the at large bid.

 

I don't really think he was complaining about ND's process, just explaining that it's not the cake walk into the BCS that so many antis like to portray it as.

 

Yup-I'm not complaining whatsoever other than to refute the assumption that ND gets special treatment just because they are ND, as many of the people around the country have said in the past (Oregon last year for example). ND has an advantage in getting selected when they are eligible, and it balances nicely with the disadvantage they have of not ever being able to get in due to winning a conference in a down year. Those balance out to the point that I think it is fair for everyone.

 

with words like "unlike BCS teams" and "forced" and "never being able to sneak" it kind of sounds like complaining.

 

die hards will never admit this but its true...there are certain teams that don't fall as far as others in the polls after a loss and certain teams that will get the nod over other teams in the rankings even if they have more losses plus less than impressive schedules and certain teams that generally are ranked higher at the beginning of the year than they probably should be. some teams just get pushed up when it isn't justified.

 

two of these teams used to be Florida and Nebraska, but both programs hit bumps. another of these teams is Michigan, but they have pretty much been exposed. and another team, and I am a fan (they are my second favorite CFB team after my alma mater), is Notre Dame.

 

just look at my favorite team, Wisconsin. they pounded Auburn in their bowl game, finished with identical records as Auburn, but some how finished right behind Auburn in both polls. why? why does a voter sit down, make out a list, and put team A ahead of team B the day after team B trounced team A? because one is a traditional powerhouse. the other is an annually competetive team, but not a traditional powerhouse.

 

sorry guys. it's nothing to be embarassed or ashamed about or defensive of. it's just something that goes along with being a historical power house in a sport. the same goes in college hoops, see Duke, NC, and any other traditional powerhouse.

[CubColtPacer]

 

Hey, at least ND has had a quality team every time-unlike BCS teams like Pittsburgh, and Florida State (of course, not their NC year-but they've made it at least twice when they were an average team at best with 3 or 4 losses on the season already). ND is forced to be at least on par with the top at large teams out there to get a bid, and their getting selected when eligible negates the disadvantage they have to other teams with never being able to sneak into a big bowl with several losses.

 

it's difficult to have sympathy for them. they made their bed, they have to lay in it. they could've become part of a conference long ago, but remaining independant just brings in too much money with no need to share the revenue with other teams.

 

they have a choice, not be so greedy or continue having difficulty getting the at large bid.

 

I don't really think he was complaining about ND's process, just explaining that it's not the cake walk into the BCS that so many antis like to portray it as.

 

Yup-I'm not complaining whatsoever other than to refute the assumption that ND gets special treatment just because they are ND, as many of the people around the country have said in the past (Oregon last year for example). ND has an advantage in getting selected when they are eligible, and it balances nicely with the disadvantage they have of not ever being able to get in due to winning a conference in a down year. Those balance out to the point that I think it is fair for everyone.

 

with words like "unlike BCS teams" and "forced" and "never being able to sneak" it kind of sounds like complaining.

 

die hards will never admit this but its true...there are certain teams that don't fall as far as others in the polls after a loss and certain teams that will get the nod over other teams in the rankings even if they have more losses plus less than impressive schedules and certain teams that generally are ranked higher at the beginning of the year than they probably should be. some teams just get pushed up when it isn't justified.

 

two of these teams used to be Florida and Nebraska, but both programs hit bumps. another of these teams is Michigan, but they have pretty much been exposed. and another team, and I am a fan (they are my second favorite CFB team after my alma mater), is Notre Dame.

 

just look at my favorite team, Wisconsin. they pounded Auburn in their bowl game, finished with identical records as Auburn, but some how finished right behind Auburn in both polls. why? why does a voter sit down, make out a list, and put team A ahead of team B the day after team B trounced team A? because one is a traditional powerhouse. the other is an annually competetive team, but not a traditional powerhouse.

 

sorry guys. it's nothing to be embarassed or ashamed about or defensive of. it's just something that goes along with being a historical power house in a sport. the same goes in college hoops, see Duke, NC, and any other traditional powerhouse.

 

Well, yes-at the start of my post, I was trying to prove there was a disadvantage to being in the position they wre in as well as the advantage that had already been pointed out that they were going to get picked if the y were eligible. That's why I said in my last sentence of my original post that the advantage was negated by the disadvantage-which would make it fair.

I personally do not agree with you that ND gets that favoritism in the polls. 2002 is a perfect example of this. There were 6 teams that were undefeated after 8 weeks when the first BCS standings came out-Oklahoma, Miami, ND, Virginia Tech, Georgia, and Ohio State. At the time, ND was rated as having the top schedule in the country by those rankings (the other teams schedule strength was 13th, 27th, 25th, 9th, and 28th respectively). Because of their schedule strength, Notre Dame was #1 in 4 computers, #2 in 2 computers, and #4 in one computer. What were they ranked by the polls? 6th-by both polls, even after going undefeated so far with the hardest schedule. I just don't see very often how ND gets the favortism of the polls-there are just as many people that hate ND as those who will vote for them.

[TruffleShuffle]

I personally do not agree with you that ND gets that favoritism in the polls. 2002 is a perfect example of this. There were 6 teams that were undefeated after 8 weeks when the first BCS standings came out-Oklahoma, Miami, ND, Virginia Tech, Georgia, and Ohio State.

 

This is not a good example at all. Notre Dame was 5-6 in 2001 and probably started out the season unranked in the polls. Here's how the other teams finished 2001:

 

Miami: 12-0, National Champs

Oklahoma: 11-2

VT: 8-4

UGa: 8-4

Ohio State: 7-5

 

 

Here's how those teams were ranked going into 2002, in the ESPN and AP polls:

 

Miami: 1/1

Oklahoma: 3/2

VT: 16/16

UGa: 11/8

OSU: 12/13

ND: Unranked in both

 

 

So it really has nothing to do with the respect of ND's program. The reason they were ranked #6 in both polls is that they started out the season far behind the other 5 teams in the polls, and were therefore not as highly regarded as those teams.

[jjgman21]

 

This is not a good example at all. Notre Dame was 5-6 in 2001 and probably started out the season unranked in the polls. Here's how the other teams finished 2001:

 

 

allow me to elaborate further

 

 

I think the 2002 season proves my point. it's about incumbancy and who does what, not what was done. the pollsters don't care about computer rankings. it just doesn't work that way, what makes you expect such treatment? in fact, they Irish did leap frog alot of teams without the usual justification (a loss by the team leap frogged) and that just doesn't happen with most teams.

 

in 2002 the Irish were coming off a bad year, and 2 of the past 3 years were bad by any definition. so let's look how the season went. we'll use just the AP poll for simplicity.

 

they went into the season unranked with just 3 points in preseason votes. after the second poll where only a few teams played games, they still had those three points

 

poll 3 - they beat 21st ranked Maryland and leap frog about 20 teams to no. 23.

 

poll 4 - they beat unranked Purdue and leap frog Texas A&M up to 20th

 

poll 5 - they beat no. 7 Michigan and leap frog three teams that were either idle or won into no. 12 (as further reinforcement of what I am getting at, Penn State, a traditional powerhouse, went from unranked to no. 15 that same week)

 

poll 6 - they beat unranked MSU and move past two teams that lost into 10th.

 

poll 7 - they are idle and move up to 9 past FSU who lost.

 

poll 8 - they beat Stanford and move up to 8 past Florida who lost

 

poll 9 - they beat Pitt and move up to 7 past Texas who lost.

 

poll 10 - they beat AF and move to 6th past Oregon who lost (Oregon, not a traditional powerhouse, lost 45-42 to ASU and dropped from 6 to 14. let's see what happens when the Irish lose their first game).

 

poll 11 - they hand FSU their third loss of the season and are rewarded by inexplicably leap frogging two undefeated teams, Georgia and Ohio State, into 4th and receive one vote for no. 1

 

poll 12 - they lose to unranked BC 14-7 and fall a mere 5 slots to no. 9.

 

poll 13 - they barely beat Navy and remain no. 9. USC, a traditional powerhouse leapfrogs them. VT loses and drops behind them.

 

poll 14 - they are idle but move up to no. 8 as no. 4 Texas loses to Texas Tech and plummets to no. 11

 

poll 15 - they thrash Rutgers and move up to no. 7 as Wazzou loses by three to unranked Washington and drops six slots

 

poll 16 - they get absolutely thrashed by USC and drop a mere 4 slots to no. 11

 

come the end of the year, after losing their bowl game, I think you will find the pollsters had ND well ahead of all the computer rankings. they were by no means treated unfairly in 2002. quite the contrary. they jumped over teams when the should not have, and didn't drop as far as they should have when they lost.

 

just because they didn't jump over teams you thought or the computers thought they should have leap frogged does not mean that the human beings who cast their votes treated them unfairly. they got typical traditional powerhouse treatment.

[CubColtPacer]

 

This is not a good example at all. Notre Dame was 5-6 in 2001 and probably started out the season unranked in the polls. Here's how the other teams finished 2001:

 

 

 

come the end of the year, after losing their bowl game, I think you will find the pollsters had ND well ahead of all the computer rankings. they were by no means treated unfairly in 2002. quite the contrary. they jumped over teams when the should not have, and didn't drop as far as they should have when they lost.

 

I don't think the Irish were treated unfairly in 2002-I think they were treated exactly as they should have been. The AP poll had ND at 17th at the end of the season after their bowl game with a 10-3 ND record There were only 2 teams behind them in the top 25 who had the same number of losses or less-Marshall and TCU, who had 2 losses each against a vastly inferior schedule. There were 6 3 loss teams in the poll-ND is dead last among those 6 teams. In fact, there are 2 teams with 4 losses who were ranked higher in the final poll than the Irish. As for the computer rankings, Sagarin had them at 9th after the bowl in his rating he uses for the BCS. Colley had them at 9th as well. Massey's BCS rating had ND at 10th after the bowl loss. Anderson and Hester had them at 10th. The other computer rankings of that year do not have the final results archived anymore that I can find. So the computers still thought ND was a top 10 team-ND was ranked behind every 3 loss team in the poll and even two 4 loss teams-how exactly is this favortism?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Can we have a separate ND thread for those like me who don't give a crap about them?

[jjgman21]

 

This is not a good example at all. Notre Dame was 5-6 in 2001 and probably started out the season unranked in the polls. Here's how the other teams finished 2001:

 

 

 

come the end of the year, after losing their bowl game, I think you will find the pollsters had ND well ahead of all the computer rankings. they were by no means treated unfairly in 2002. quite the contrary. they jumped over teams when the should not have, and didn't drop as far as they should have when they lost.

 

I don't think the Irish were treated unfairly in 2002-I think they were treated exactly as they should have been. The AP poll had ND at 17th at the end of the season after their bowl game with a 10-3 ND record There were only 2 teams behind them in the top 25 who had the same number of losses or less-Marshall and TCU, who had 2 losses each against a vastly inferior schedule. There were 6 3 loss teams in the poll-ND is dead last among those 6 teams. In fact, there are 2 teams with 4 losses who were ranked higher in the final poll than the Irish. As for the computer rankings, Sagarin had them at 9th after the bowl in his rating he uses for the BCS. Colley had them at 9th as well. Massey's BCS rating had ND at 10th after the bowl loss. Anderson and Hester had them at 10th. The other computer rankings of that year do not have the final results archived anymore that I can find. So the computers still thought ND was a top 10 team-ND was ranked behind every 3 loss team in the poll and even two 4 loss teams-how exactly is this favortism?

 

that's what happens when you lose your last two games. you have to keep in mind that the votes are for right now, not how a team has been over the course of the year.

 

other teams would be thankful to only move down 10 or so slots after two thrashings like the Irish took in their game against SC and then in their bowl game. if that hypothetical other team wasn't ranked before the year, went 10-1 in their first 11, then lost their last two by wide margins, they would probably be thankful to be ranked at all because they never would have made the top ten.

 

apparently I was wrong about the computer polls, but I did spot one that had them around 20 (which was the basis of my statement). I don't think I should have phrased it in terms of the Irish aren't treated fairly. I think what their 2002 AP ranking shows is they are in fact treated favorably by the pollsters when comparred to how teams that aren't traditional powerhouses tend to move up and down the polls. in other words, whatever anti-ND sentiment there may be among the voters is overwhelmed by the favoritism they receive.

 

again, nothing to be ashamed or defensive of, but its a fact. certain teams get favorable treatment by the pollsters. there's a fabulous example of it right now. Texas, no. 2 without Vince Young? come on.

[Andy]

Can we have a separate ND thread for those like me who don't give a crap about them?

While ND is the specific example used in this thread, I wouldn't say this is "separate thread"-ish. I think examining where traditional powers are helped out by polls and nontraditional powers are hurt is a valid discussion on all counts.

 

Twice in the last decade (1998 and 2005), Notre Dame has made a huge leap from 20th or lower into the #10 slot after an impressive victory over Michigan early in the season. (Coincidentally, in both those years, UM fell considerably below their expectations for that season.) I think that's evidence of a greater ill at work: Pollsters almost trying to find an excuse to keep the major powers at the top of the polls. I don't think it's coincidence either that the Irish - arguably the most traditional of all the traditional powers - are the only team in history not to drop in the polls after a loss after that USC game last year.