Andruw Jones Waiver Claim / Reyes extended

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I don't think there's any doubt that Pie would be the center piece for any deal for Jones. That's a given.

 

The remaining pieces are up for debate. The Braves might ask for higher ceiling, lower-level guys like Paweleck. They could ask for guys that already have service time like Marshall or Marmol.

 

My guess is that they would want Pie + one of Marshall, Marmol, or Guzman + one of a group that could include Gallagher, Paweleck, or Veal. The price will be steep, but considering what the prospects are for the Cubs adding an impact bat, I'd probably make the deal.

[WrigleyField 22]

I doubt the Cubs made a claim, but for fun, I'll say they did.

 

 

Marshall, Pie, Mateo- You figure Pie is definitely apart of such a deal. To hope otherwise is unrealistic.

I'd throw in a second/third tier pitching prospect if they were willing to throw in a positional prospect of about equal value. Someone like Ryu, Wells, Williams, Shaver, Layden, Johnson. I would be willing to do this just because if we lost Pie our farm would go from bad in positional prospects to downright pitiful.

[CP_414]

I would do Prior for Andruw if we could have a window to negotiate an extension with Jones. Prior hasn't looked like himself at all, and who knows when or if he ever becomes that player again. I think Hendry probably regrets not taking the Tejada trade, and wouldn't let that happen again.

 

 

Why would we not claim Jones? Even if we don't think we can work out a trade by 1pm tomorrow, wouldn't we want to try to work it out? Plus, we can prevent a team like St. Louis or Houston from getting him before his 10/5 rights if we put a claim in now. I don't see what the downside is to claiming him and I would be very disappointed if Hendry didn't.

 

Of course Prior hasn't looked like himself, he's been injured most of the season. They need to give him time. I know that Cubs fans would regret giving up another great pitcher for a short term player if Prior, as he easily could, even partly regains his old form.

 

I do think they should go after Jones, but not if the price is one of our best hopes for the future. Some people have given up on him, but I don't think he's done yet. If he can't manage to throw a full season by the time he is eligible for free agency, they could give up on him, but before then, he's just got too much promise to let go for a short term player.

 

I'd prefer to keep Prior, but wouldn't let him stop the trade. It's not just this season. He's been on the DL for a decent amount of time the last 3 years. He hasn't really resembled the 2003 Prior at all except for a few flashes last season last season. I like Prior as much as anyone, and I hope he rebounds to 03 form, but if I can get a potential NL MVP for him I do it. Jones can hit 50 HR's, hit clean-up all year, and play solid D in center. I really don't know what to expect out of Prior at this point.

 

I don't think this is a factor though. I think Prior wouldn't be able to get through waivers to the Braves.

 

Pie, Marshall, Mateo could get it done. With Marmol, Hill, Gizman, Gallagher we can afford to give up the Marshall and Mateo for a guy like Andruw.

[cbbryan]

I would do a package of J. Williams, Guzman, Theriot, and someone like Justin Berg.

 

That might be enough to get Hollandsworth back.

 

Maybe Jaime Navarro.

 

Oh, I forgot...........when posting a trade I should overvalue whoever the Cubs are trading for and undervalue the Cubs prospects......... my bad!

 

Jerome Williams is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and decent stuff.

 

Angel Guzman is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and GREAT stuff.

 

Theriot is a good player. He's also young and cheap.

 

Berg is a 22 year old with decent upside.

 

Atlanta develops their prospects as well.

 

What do some of you guys/gals think it will take?

 

I can't wait for the Prior/Pie/Guzman/Brownlie/Petrick/Veal.........etc.

[CP_414]

I would do a package of J. Williams, Guzman, Theriot, and someone like Justin Berg.

 

That might be enough to get Hollandsworth back.

 

Maybe Jaime Navarro.

 

Oh, I forgot...........when posting a trade I should overvalue whoever the Cubs are trading for and undervalue the Cubs prospects......... my bad!

 

Jerome Williams is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and decent stuff.

 

Angel Guzman is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and GREAT stuff.

 

Theriot is a good player. He's also young and cheap.

 

Berg is a 22 year old with decent upside.

 

Atlanta develops their prospects as well.

 

What do some of you guys/gals think it will take?

 

I can't wait for the Prior/Pie/Guzman/Brownlie/Petrick/Veal.........etc.

 

Williams can't crack the Cubs rotation that has started 6 rookies this season. Guzman has to prove he can stay healthy to be a great prospect. I don't view theriot as more than a potential solid back-up, or ok starter on a bad team. I don't know enough about Berg to comment.

 

I don't think those guys net you an "Andruw Jones" type player.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I would do a package of J. Williams, Guzman, Theriot, and someone like Justin Berg.

 

That might be enough to get Hollandsworth back.

 

Maybe Jaime Navarro.

 

Oh, I forgot...........when posting a trade I should overvalue whoever the Cubs are trading for and undervalue the Cubs prospects......... my bad!

 

Jerome Williams is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and decent stuff.

 

Angel Guzman is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and GREAT stuff.

 

Theriot is a good player. He's also young and cheap.

 

Berg is a 22 year old with decent upside.

 

Atlanta develops their prospects as well.

 

What do some of you guys/gals think it will take?

 

I can't wait for the Prior/Pie/Guzman/Brownlie/Petrick/Veal.........etc.

 

I don't think a package of Williams, Guzman, Theriot and Berg comes close.

 

Williams is viewed as a big question mark. Though he's young and has shown some promise, there are as many draw backs with him as there are strenghts. He wouldn't be the centerpiece.

 

Guzman's injury issues and inconsistent performance this year would lower his value.

 

Theriot, while I like him, is viewed as major league utility guy and not a starter.

 

Berg may have some upside, but he's a throw-in here.

 

If the Cubs trade for Jones, one marquee name will be in the deal and it will Pie. To think a deal will happen without Pie being a part of it is dreaming.

 

As I said, I expect Pie, one pitcher of Guzman, Marshall, Hill, Marmol and then one of a Gallagher, Veal, Paweleck.

 

Might it not be that much? Maybe. But it will include someone that it hurts to trade, and likely two or three players that it will hurt to trade. We won't get this done with a bunch of "maybe" prospects.

[Flames24Rulz]

I would do a package of J. Williams, Guzman, Theriot, and someone like Justin Berg.

 

That might be enough to get Hollandsworth back.

 

Maybe Jaime Navarro.

 

Oh, I forgot...........when posting a trade I should overvalue whoever the Cubs are trading for and undervalue the Cubs prospects......... my bad!

 

Jerome Williams is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and decent stuff.

 

Angel Guzman is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and GREAT stuff.

 

Theriot is a good player. He's also young and cheap.

 

Berg is a 22 year old with decent upside.

 

Atlanta develops their prospects as well.

 

What do some of you guys/gals think it will take?

 

I can't wait for the Prior/Pie/Guzman/Brownlie/Petrick/Veal.........etc.

 

I just don't think that package could come close to getting Andruw Jones. For all your positives, I could list all of the negatives. Williams has struggled all season and has been in AAA most of the season. He has struggled there as well as he was even demoted to not even starting every 5th day for quite some time in Iowa.

 

Guzman, I believe, would have to be part of a deal to get Jones...even though he has had injury woes in the past, he still does have great stuff like you said and I believe he would be part of a package.

 

Theriot is probably not going to amount to anything more than a decent utility man in the bigs. I don't think a franchise would trade an MVP for a package involving a utility man.

 

Berg's decent, but he's only a mid-level prospect. He may get a deal done as a 5th or 6th piece (a filler piece if you will), but he will not be a main part to any deal involving Andruw Jones.

 

It is going to take a lot to get Jones...they wouldn't budge on Boston trading Lester and Hansen, which is a pretty good package of prospects. The Cubs would have to at least start with Prior, Pie, and Guzman IMO.

[Flames24Rulz]

I would do a package of J. Williams, Guzman, Theriot, and someone like Justin Berg.

 

That might be enough to get Hollandsworth back.

 

Maybe Jaime Navarro.

 

Oh, I forgot...........when posting a trade I should overvalue whoever the Cubs are trading for and undervalue the Cubs prospects......... my bad!

 

Jerome Williams is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and decent stuff.

 

Angel Guzman is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and GREAT stuff.

 

Theriot is a good player. He's also young and cheap.

 

Berg is a 22 year old with decent upside.

 

Atlanta develops their prospects as well.

 

What do some of you guys/gals think it will take?

 

I can't wait for the Prior/Pie/Guzman/Brownlie/Petrick/Veal.........etc.

 

I don't think a package of Williams, Guzman, Theriot and Berg comes close.

 

Williams is viewed as a big question mark. Though he's young and has shown some promise, there are as many draw backs with him as there are strenghts. He wouldn't be the centerpiece.

 

Guzman's injury issues and inconsistent performance this year would lower his value.

 

Theriot, while I like him, is viewed as major league utility guy and not a starter.

 

Berg may have some upside, but he's a throw-in here.

 

If the Cubs trade for Jones, one marquee name will be in the deal and it will Pie. To think a deal will happen without Pie being a part of it is dreaming.

 

As I said, I expect Pie, one pitcher of Guzman, Marshall, Hill, Marmol and then one of a Gallagher, Veal, Paweleck.

 

Might it not be that much? Maybe. But it will include someone that it hurts to trade, and likely two or three players that it will hurt to trade. We won't get this done with a bunch of "maybe" prospects.

 

You read my mind.

[WrigleyField 22]

I would do a package of J. Williams, Guzman, Theriot, and someone like Justin Berg.

 

That might be enough to get Hollandsworth back.

 

Maybe Jaime Navarro.

 

Oh, I forgot...........when posting a trade I should overvalue whoever the Cubs are trading for and undervalue the Cubs prospects......... my bad!

 

Jerome Williams is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and decent stuff.

 

Angel Guzman is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and GREAT stuff.

 

Theriot is a good player. He's also young and cheap.

 

Berg is a 22 year old with decent upside.

 

Atlanta develops their prospects as well.

 

What do some of you guys/gals think it will take?

 

I can't wait for the Prior/Pie/Guzman/Brownlie/Petrick/Veal.........etc.

 

Ricky Nolasco was better and had more value than any of these guys and along with two other decent prospects (one high cieling/low floor, another low ceiling high floor) was able to net Pierre.

Nolasco>Guzman... if it were 2003 this wouldnt be the case, but its not..

Mitre=Williams

Pinto>Berg

And Theriot puts this deal over the top?

Yea we overpaid for Pierre and might be able to underbid a bit for Jones, but it wont be so extreme.

 

This may all be a moot point as we likely didnt claim Jones...

[cbbryan]

Maybe that exact package won't get it done, but I find it quite funny that one can can bring up packages with Prior being the centerpiece of a trade, but Guzman is an IF.

 

Outside of '03 how are they that much different. Sure Prior has more upside, more potential................... who cares! He can't stay healthy and he has as many ifs as Guzman.

 

It also depends on who's cleared waivers for the Cubs. What about Pierre? What about Murton?

 

My thoughts with Theriot is that the Cubs have WAY too many 2B slotted players. Theriot, IMO, can be a starter in this league. The future there seems to be with EPat.

 

Maybe the package looks more like Pierre, Hill, Marshall, and Theriot.

 

I don't think you HAVE to include Pie.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Ricky Nolasco was better and had more value than any of these guys and along with two other decent prospects (one high cieling/low floor, another low ceiling high floor) was able to net Pierre.

Nolasco>Guzman... if it were 2003 this wouldnt be the case, but its not..

Mitre=Williams

Pinto>Berg

And Theriot puts this deal over the top?

Yea we overpaid for Pierre and might be able to underbid a bit for Jones, but it wont be so extreme.

 

This may all be a moot point as we likely didnt claim Jones...

 

I disagree on how you rate Guzman, but otherwise agree. I'd rate him ahead of Nolasco.

 

A trade for Andruw, if the Cubs picked up his full salary, would still probably need someone like Pie or Gallagher or Veal (along with Guzman).

[CubColtPacer]

Maybe that exact package won't get it done, but I find it quite funny that one can can bring up packages with Prior being the centerpiece of a trade, but Guzman is an IF.

 

Outside of '03 how are they that much different. Sure Prior has more upside, more potential................... who cares! He can't stay healthy and he has as many ifs as Guzman.

 

It also depends on who's cleared waivers for the Cubs. What about Pierre? What about Murton?

 

My thoughts with Theriot is that the Cubs have WAY too many 2B slotted players. Theriot, IMO, can be a starter in this league. The future there seems to be with EPat.

 

Maybe the package looks more like Pierre, Hill, Marshall, and Theriot.

 

I don't think you HAVE to include Pie.

 

I think that package may do it..and there is a big difference in Prior and Guzman. They both have the injury history-if healthy, Guzman may dominate on the major league level, while Prior when healthy has dominated on the major league level.

[WrigleyField 22]

The only way I see the package not including Pie is if its EPatt they want.

You figure you have to at least give them our best 2B Prospect. Hows their catching prospects? Maybe they'd like Soto/Reyes/Reed and EPatt? Doubtful, but maybe offer higher end pitching prospects and we could hold onto Pie.

[HoopsCubs]

Pie, Marshall, Mateo could get it done. With Marmol, Hill, Gizman, Gallagher we can afford to give up the Marshall and Mateo for a guy like Andruw.

 

But don't our guys have to clear waivers too or at least have no team worse than Atlanta claim them in order to trade with the Braves?

 

It's hard for me to believe someone not claiming a Pie or Marshall, etc...

[WrigleyField 22]

Ricky Nolasco was better and had more value than any of these guys and along with two other decent prospects (one high cieling/low floor, another low ceiling high floor) was able to net Pierre.

Nolasco>Guzman... if it were 2003 this wouldnt be the case, but its not..

Mitre=Williams

Pinto>Berg

And Theriot puts this deal over the top?

Yea we overpaid for Pierre and might be able to underbid a bit for Jones, but it wont be so extreme.

 

This may all be a moot point as we likely didnt claim Jones...

 

I disagree on how you rate Guzman, but otherwise agree. I'd rate him ahead of Nolasco.

 

A trade for Andruw, if the Cubs picked up his full salary, would still probably need someone like Pie or Gallagher or Veal (along with Guzman).

 

While Guzman has the stuff over Nolasco, Nolasco was coming off a great year in AA at the age of 22. All of his other seasons besides 2004 were just as good. I guess Guzmans health may have restored a lot of the value he lost, but we have seen him stuck at AAA and not doing so great. Maybe they are equal, but I don't see Guzman as having more trade value than Nolasco did.

[cbbryan]

Maybe that exact package won't get it done, but I find it quite funny that one can can bring up packages with Prior being the centerpiece of a trade, but Guzman is an IF.

 

Outside of '03 how are they that much different. Sure Prior has more upside, more potential................... who cares! He can't stay healthy and he has as many ifs as Guzman.

 

It also depends on who's cleared waivers for the Cubs. What about Pierre? What about Murton?

 

My thoughts with Theriot is that the Cubs have WAY too many 2B slotted players. Theriot, IMO, can be a starter in this league. The future there seems to be with EPat.

 

Maybe the package looks more like Pierre, Hill, Marshall, and Theriot.

 

I don't think you HAVE to include Pie.

 

I think that package may do it..and there is a big difference in Prior and Guzman. They both have the injury history-if healthy, Guzman may dominate on the major league level, while Prior when healthy has dominated on the major league level.

 

It's only a big difference IF Prior can come back and continue to dominate.

 

That hasn't happened this year. He has a knack for freak injuries and since '03 hasn't been the same.

 

What's more certain............. Prior returns to '03 form, or continues to be injury prone?

 

Listen, I really like Prior and hope he comes back to form, but I don't understand the thought process here.

 

If the Cubs package MLB experienced talent w/ high ceiling talent and include more quanity.............there maybe a chance.

 

I think w/ Atlanta's success in developing some of the Cubs prospects high ceiling prospects MAY hold more value to them. I could be wrong, but I think it's at least a possibility.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

The only way I see the package not including Pie is if its EPatt they want.

You figure you have to at least give them our best 2B Prospect. Hows their catching prospects? Maybe they'd like Soto/Reyes/Reed and EPatt? Doubtful, but maybe offer higher end pitching prospects and we could hold onto Pie.

 

They have Brian McCann starting on the big club and he's an all star catcher so far.

 

That being said, I know they traded a top prospect catcher in the Bob Wickman trade.

[sherwood921]

Pie, Marshall, Mateo could get it done. With Marmol, Hill, Gizman, Gallagher we can afford to give up the Marshall and Mateo for a guy like Andruw.

 

But don't our guys have to clear waivers too or at least have no team worse than Atlanta claim them in order to trade with the Braves?

 

It's hard for me to believe someone not claiming a Pie or Marshall, etc...

 

Exactly what I was thinking. I think they can be traded w/o clearing waivers if they're not on the 40 man, but guys like Prior, Pie, Marshall, Marmol would get claimed, making them untradable.

[WrigleyField 22]

Pie, Marshall, Mateo could get it done. With Marmol, Hill, Gizman, Gallagher we can afford to give up the Marshall and Mateo for a guy like Andruw.

 

But don't our guys have to clear waivers too or at least have no team worse than Atlanta claim them in order to trade with the Braves?

 

It's hard for me to believe someone not claiming a Pie or Marshall, etc...

 

They could be sent as PTNBL though correct? A PTBN can't be on the 25 man roster, but currently Marshall is on the DL so could just be returned to AAA afterwards and Mateo was likely only up here for a short stint anyway so he could be sent back down, allowing Guzman to get some starts.If this doesn't work we can send players not on the 40man, correct? Maybe we have to do Veal/Pawalek/Gallagher(:()/ EPatt/Fox type guys.

[CP_414]

Pie, Marshall, Mateo could get it done. With Marmol, Hill, Gizman, Gallagher we can afford to give up the Marshall and Mateo for a guy like Andruw.

 

But don't our guys have to clear waivers too or at least have no team worse than Atlanta claim them in order to trade with the Braves?

 

It's hard for me to believe someone not claiming a Pie or Marshall, etc...

 

I thought minor leaguers didn't have to clear. I might be wrong. You are probably right about Marshall though. I guess Mateo is a major leaguer now too, so you're right, my proposal won't work.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Ricky Nolasco was better and had more value than any of these guys and along with two other decent prospects (one high cieling/low floor, another low ceiling high floor) was able to net Pierre.

Nolasco>Guzman... if it were 2003 this wouldnt be the case, but its not..

Mitre=Williams

Pinto>Berg

And Theriot puts this deal over the top?

Yea we overpaid for Pierre and might be able to underbid a bit for Jones, but it wont be so extreme.

 

This may all be a moot point as we likely didnt claim Jones...

 

I disagree on how you rate Guzman, but otherwise agree. I'd rate him ahead of Nolasco.

 

A trade for Andruw, if the Cubs picked up his full salary, would still probably need someone like Pie or Gallagher or Veal (along with Guzman).

 

While Guzman has the stuff over Nolasco, Nolasco was coming off a great year in AA at the age of 22. All of his other seasons besides 2004 were just as good. I guess Guzmans health may have restored a lot of the value he lost, but we have seen him stuck at AAA and not doing so great. Maybe they are equal, but I don't see Guzman as having more trade value than Nolasco did.

 

Guzman has better stuff, higher potential and his performance this season can be blamed on rust (and he's had better seasons than Nolasco in the minors). I'd rate him higher than Nolasco after the 2005 campaign (heck, I thought Guzman after the 2005 season was still ahead of Nolasco). It comes down to how big a risk they view Guzman's injury problems.

[Wheelimus]

Heh, bet you could have Jones for nothing if you took Mike Hamptons contract.

 

Not that, you know, i'm advocating that, lol.

[lanalang]

Does anyone know what team claimed him i hope it was the cubs but noone has said what team so whos the team?

[Butterscup1679666578]

Does anyone know what team claimed him i hope it was the cubs but noone has said what team so whos the team?

 

I was on Birdsonthebat.com and the speculation over there is that it's Milwaukee, which makes a lot of sense to me.

[soccer10k]

Pie, Marshall, Mateo could get it done. With Marmol, Hill, Gizman, Gallagher we can afford to give up the Marshall and Mateo for a guy like Andruw.

 

But don't our guys have to clear waivers too or at least have no team worse than Atlanta claim them in order to trade with the Braves?

 

It's hard for me to believe someone not claiming a Pie or Marshall, etc...

 

I thought minor leaguers didn't have to clear. I might be wrong. You are probably right about Marshall though. I guess Mateo is a major leaguer now too, so you're right, my proposal won't work.

 

I think it's just players on the 40 man roster that have to clear whether they are in the majors or not.