What I'm most upset about after the deadline

[Laura]

You know what I'm most upset about?

 

Neifi - Career BA is .270. OBP is .299. SLG is .379. OPS is .678.

 

Izturis - Career BA is .260. OBP is .295. SLG is .339. OPS is .634.

 

And Neifi has more power.

 

The Cubs own Neifi through '07 and Izturis through '08.

 

How may position players who flat out cannot hit do we need on the roster?

 

Z can't compensate for them all.

[soapy]

I believe, and I may be wrong, but didnt several teams offer more money, and years for Howry and Eyre.

 

Oh, no way. I don't have a link handy, but someone used to have a quote in his sig from Eyre talking about how Eyre had established some ideal terms with his agent and Hendry's offer just blew those away.

 

So you payed a couple of extra million for Howry and Eyre. Not a big deal. Im not second guessing those deals. Howry and Eyre are 2 of the best set-up men in the league.

 

But look at it this way: Okay, so you only over paid a couple million for Eyre and Howry. That's $4 million total. Now you over pay for Rusch, Neifi and Izturis on top of that (I'll exclude Jones even though I think he's overpaid as well).

 

You've probably got $10-$14 million in "overpaid" money right there. That's a front line starting pitcher or stud OFer.

 

Remember that this winter when Hendry defends not signing "big time" free agents because he doesn't agree with overpaying for those players and he has to work with a budget (see: Vlad, Tejada, Beltran, Giles, etc.).

[goonys evil twin]

What I'm most upset about is that it remains clear that Hendry still doesn't understand the problem on this team. It's hard to fix a problem, when you don't know it exists, and Hendry apparantly has no idea that this team's biggest problem is the inability/unwillingness to take walks, which leads to lower OBP and the worst run scoring team in the majors. Following close behind is the lack of power and all the pitching problems. But he hasn't done a thing to improve either of those in years either.

[cubfan1955]

You know what I'm most upset about?

 

Neifi - Career BA is .270. OBP is .299. SLG is .379. OPS is .678.

 

Izturis - Career BA is .260. OBP is .295. SLG is .339. OPS is .634.

 

And Neifi has more power.

 

The Cubs own Neifi through '07 and Izturis through '08.

 

How may position players who flat out cannot hit do we need on the roster?

 

Z can't compensate for them all.

Obviously we just can't get enough of them. I wonder of Ángel Berroa is available? Of course his .310 career OBP is probably a little too high for Hendry.

[frostwyrm]

It would've made sense to go after Abreu for RF, move Jones to CF, and shop Pierre, whose market value was probably pretty high after his recent hot streak. It wouldn't have even occurrred to me to target a younger more expensive version of Neifi Perez.

[snoodmonger]

Hopefully there are moves to made in the offseason. Theoretically the Cubs could:

 

1. Package Izturiz or Cedeno + prospects (Hill/Gooz) for a middle of the rotation guy. I have no one specific in mind.

 

2. Sign Loretta.

 

3. Sign Soriano or Lee

 

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Pierre is coming back, so that leaves us with:

 

Pierre

Loretta

Lee

Ramirez

Lee/Soriano

Barrett

Jones

Izturiz (I see Cedeno as more likely to be traded)

P

 

 

Rotation:

Z

Prior

PITCHER

Marmol

Marshall

 

The season would pretty much hinge on Pierre not sucking, Prior being old Prior, and the continued improvement of the two young guys at the back end of the rotation. Big gambles, I know. The team is also older than I'd like, and fashioned in the traditional Cub way: vets over youth.

 

 

My biggest fears are that, if Rammy opts out and JH signs Pierre, that leaves us with not a lot of scratch for a big thumper...and almost surely not enough for two big FAs (thumper AND Loretta,)

[1908]

You know what I'm most upset about?

 

Neifi - Career BA is .270. OBP is .299. SLG is .379. OPS is .678.

 

Izturis - Career BA is .260. OBP is .295. SLG is .339. OPS is .634.

 

And Neifi has more power.

Park factors come into play here. Neifi has not been a more productive career hitter than Izturis. But it's sickeningly close.

 

Career OPS+

Neifi: 65

Izturis: 69

[CubColtPacer]

You know what I'm most upset about?

 

Neifi - Career BA is .270. OBP is .299. SLG is .379. OPS is .678.

 

Izturis - Career BA is .260. OBP is .295. SLG is .339. OPS is .634.

 

And Neifi has more power.

Park factors come into play here. Neifi has not been a more productive career hitter than Izturis. But it's sickeningly close.

 

Career OPS+

Neifi: 65

Izturis: 69

 

True, but that includes Neifi's 3 or so productive years in the prime of his career. Yes, he did have a couple-his OPS from 1997 and 2001 would be 8th among shortstops this year, and his OPS from 2000 was an average shortstop. The Neifi that of today is a shell of that average shortstop Neifi, and Izturis had career path numbers pre-injury to be better than Neifi at any point in his career.

[goonys evil twin]

You know what I'm most upset about?

 

Neifi - Career BA is .270. OBP is .299. SLG is .379. OPS is .678.

 

Izturis - Career BA is .260. OBP is .295. SLG is .339. OPS is .634.

 

And Neifi has more power.

Park factors come into play here. Neifi has not been a more productive career hitter than Izturis. But it's sickeningly close.

 

Career OPS+

Neifi: 65

Izturis: 69

 

True, but that includes Neifi's 3 or so productive years in the prime of his career. Yes, he did have a couple-his OPS from 1997 and 2001 would be 8th among shortstops this year, and his OPS from 2000 was an average shortstop. The Neifi that of today is a shell of that average shortstop Neifi, and Izturis had career path numbers pre-injury to be better than Neifi at any point in his career.

 

You are talking about Coors Field Perez, when his OPS+ (adjusted for park factors) were still in the 60-70 range. The Neifi of today is very much like the Neifi of yesteryear, which is to stay, he's always stunk and he still stinks.

[cubfan1955]

You know what I'm most upset about?

 

Neifi - Career BA is .270. OBP is .299. SLG is .379. OPS is .678.

 

Izturis - Career BA is .260. OBP is .295. SLG is .339. OPS is .634.

 

And Neifi has more power.

Park factors come into play here. Neifi has not been a more productive career hitter than Izturis. But it's sickeningly close.

 

Career OPS+

Neifi: 65

Izturis: 69

I know what you are saying but I think it is too close that we need two of them on this team. Add in Cedeno, Bynum, and Pagan...oh hell, I'm making myself sick. :oops:

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I find it both very amusing and extremely depressing that everyone is arguing over who's worse, one of the worst players offensively in the history of the game or our new prized acquisition.

[CubColtPacer]

You know what I'm most upset about?

 

Neifi - Career BA is .270. OBP is .299. SLG is .379. OPS is .678.

 

Izturis - Career BA is .260. OBP is .295. SLG is .339. OPS is .634.

 

And Neifi has more power.

Park factors come into play here. Neifi has not been a more productive career hitter than Izturis. But it's sickeningly close.

 

Career OPS+

Neifi: 65

Izturis: 69

 

True, but that includes Neifi's 3 or so productive years in the prime of his career. Yes, he did have a couple-his OPS from 1997 and 2001 would be 8th among shortstops this year, and his OPS from 2000 was an average shortstop. The Neifi that of today is a shell of that average shortstop Neifi, and Izturis had career path numbers pre-injury to be better than Neifi at any point in his career.

 

You are talking about Coors Field Perez, when his OPS+ (adjusted for park factors) were still in the 60-70 range. The Neifi of today is very much like the Neifi of yesteryear, which is to stay, he's always stunk and he still stinks.

 

Ok..that's fine then. That means Izturis has always been better than Neifi. He has a higher OPS+, while Neifi has the entire prime of his career in there while most of Izturis's at bats have come when he was 23 years old or younger. That's precisely what I'm saying-that Izturis is and always will be better than Neifi.

Will he be a great hitting shortstop? No. Does he have a career stat path that says if he can come back from his injury the same that he could be an average hitting shortstop? I believe so-the improvement every single year of his career until a decent shorstop year was had (2004), and then an incredible start to 2005 (which was a little over his head) until he got hurt. He hasn't had enough at bats since the injury to really see what he can do, but if he is healthy and can produce 2 or 3 more 700 OPS+ seasons (which he did in 2004 and 2005 before he tried to play hurt for 2 months-and considering he was 24 years old and 25 years old then, it makes sense that he could replicate those numbers at 27, 28, 29 with a dropoff at 30-32), then he will still be better offensively then 10 of the shortstops out there (just looking at the stats this year-a .700 OPS makes you the 19th best shortstop). His defense will make him an average to above average shortstop at that point.

[baseball7897]

You cannot be a GM if you dont take risk. Yeah I agree, he has not done enough since that Nomar deal. Btw, Cabrera should of been the cubs SS. To question the Eyre and Howry deal because he over paid a couple of million to me is captian insano insane. Wouldnt the Yankees rather overpay for Howry or Eyre instead of signing Farnsworth? I dont have a problem with Hendry overpaying for these 2 guys.

[soapy]

You cannot be a GM if you dont take risk. Yeah I agree, he has not done enough since that Nomar deal. Btw, Cabrera should of been the cubs SS. To question the Eyre and Howry deal because he over paid a couple of million to me is captian insano insane. Wouldnt the Yankees rather overpay for Howry or Eyre instead of signing Farnsworth? I dont have a problem with Hendry overpaying for these 2 guys.

But as I stated earlier in this thread (in response to you) was that it goes beyond those two. He's now overpaid for Howry + Eyre + Neifi + Rusch + Izturis to the tune of over $10 million (and that doesn't even include J. Jones).

 

It adds up and it will likely prohibit him from going out and signing both a stud LFer and a front line SP (both of which will be needed).

[baseball7897]

You cannot be a GM if you dont take risk. Yeah I agree, he has not done enough since that Nomar deal. Btw, Cabrera should of been the cubs SS. To question the Eyre and Howry deal because he over paid a couple of million to me is captian insano insane. Wouldnt the Yankees rather overpay for Howry or Eyre instead of signing Farnsworth? I dont have a problem with Hendry overpaying for these 2 guys.

But as I stated earlier in this thread (in response to you) was that it goes beyond those two. He's now overpaid for Howry + Eyre + Neifi + Rusch + Izturis to the tune of over $10 million (and that doesn't even include J. Jones).

 

It adds up and it will likely prohibit him from going out and signing both a stud LFer and a front line SP (both of which will be needed).

 

I heard on the radio a couple of times. Hendry did not overpay for Neifi. Actually there were teams offering him more money than the cubs offered him. Howry and Eyre are valuable set-up men. Rusch deal was a joke, but the Jones deal seems to work out fine as of now. Iztruis is a valuable player for a team. He brings a excellent glove to a demanding SS position. If he can return to his 04 numbers, then I think the Cubs got a steal in the Maddux trade.

[goonys evil twin]

I heard on the radio a couple of times. Hendry did not overpay for Neifi. Actually there were teams offering him more money than the cubs offered him.

 

I doubt you heard that. Even if somebody offered more (doubtful since Jim locked him up right away) that doesn't mean he's not overpaid. A terrible SS doesn't deserve $5m guaranteed.

[baseball7897]

I heard on the radio a couple of times. Hendry did not overpay for Neifi. Actually there were teams offering him more money than the cubs offered him.

 

I doubt you heard that. Even if somebody offered more (doubtful since Jim locked him up right away) that doesn't mean he's not overpaid. A terrible SS doesn't deserve $5m guaranteed.

 

To be honest with you, I have heard it numerous times from David Kaplan.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Arguing over who is best between Neifi and Izturis is akin to be trying to figure out who's the better runner. My fat 87-year old grandma with a bad hip and a walker, or my fat 90-year old grandma with a bad toe and a walker with a case of gout. It really doesn't matter.

[goonys evil twin]

I heard on the radio a couple of times. Hendry did not overpay for Neifi. Actually there were teams offering him more money than the cubs offered him.

 

I doubt you heard that. Even if somebody offered more (doubtful since Jim locked him up right away) that doesn't mean he's not overpaid. A terrible SS doesn't deserve $5m guaranteed.

 

To be honest with you, I have heard it numerous times from David Kaplan.

 

Even if you did, that doesn't mean he's not overpaid. He does nothing for this team and is paid a lot. But I still have my doubts that anybody was offering more than 2/5 for that piece of trash who was released the year before. Only the dumbest GMs in the league would consider such a move.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I heard on the radio a couple of times. Hendry did not overpay for Neifi. Actually there were teams offering him more money than the cubs offered him.

 

I doubt you heard that. Even if somebody offered more (doubtful since Jim locked him up right away) that doesn't mean he's not overpaid. A terrible SS doesn't deserve $5m guaranteed.

 

To be honest with you, I have heard it numerous times from David Kaplan.

 

Kaplan got that nugget from Hendry himself in one of his CYA rants.

[Caryatid]

I heard on the radio a couple of times. Hendry did not overpay for Neifi. Actually there were teams offering him more money than the cubs offered him.

 

Paying anything more than a dollar for Neifi is overpaying.

[baseball7897]

Lets get 1 thing staright here. Im not supporting the Neifi deal. Im just saying, he was offered more money from other clubs, than what the Cubs offered him.

[goonys evil twin]

Lets get 1 thing staright here. Im not supporting the Neifi deal. Im just saying, he was offered more money from other clubs, than what the Cubs offered him.

 

No, you are supporting the Neifi deal. That's exactly what you did when you tried to claim he's not overpaid.

[Caryatid]

Lets get 1 thing staright here. Im not supporting the Neifi deal. Im just saying, he was offered more money from other clubs, than what the Cubs offered him.

 

Okay, then based on the rumors perpetrated by the Cubs mouthpiece (WGN), there was at least one team dumber than the Cubs in the offseason.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Lets get 1 thing staright here. Im not supporting the Neifi deal. Im just saying, he was offered more money from other clubs, than what the Cubs offered him.

 

There are no facts to support that claim. Just because Hendry once told Kaplan that other teams made offers, it doesn't make it true.