Sosa wants back in! (HA!)

[Springfield_CUBBY]

He carried us to the playoffs in 1998, and we wouldn't have made it without him in 2003 either. For this Cubs fan, it's a big deal to be in the playoffs 2 times in 5 years, and Sammy is a HUGE reason why. "

 

Thanks fer yer kind werds Perfesser Woo! I ser hopes my Rgement now meets wit yor aprovel! :lol:

 

You assertation that Sammy carried the team through it's dismal years is funny! Oh, to be the King of Crap like Sammy was! And if I'm not allowed to assume some things (i.e., Sammy's visable change in body shape and dramatic drop in performance could have been caused by his quick w/d from some unknown substances) then you are not allowed to assume some things. Namely that we wouldn't have made it to the playoffs in '98 and '03 without him (however horribly those two events turned out in the end). We would have had someone palying right field, agreed? Maybe we would have not only made the palyoffs, but gone on to win the WS w/o Slammin Sammy - we just don't know . . .

 

And so I guess neither one of us really knows the truth, eh? Sammy is God - Sammy is a tool. All we know for sure is that not one GM wanted him enough to even ask nicely fpor his services! What's that say about your hero???

 

I'm uncomfortable with all the worship - that's all . . .

[CP_414]

He carried us to the playoffs in 1998, and we wouldn't have made it without him in 2003 either. For this Cubs fan, it's a big deal to be in the playoffs 2 times in 5 years, and Sammy is a HUGE reason why. "

 

Thanks fer yer kind werds Perfesser Woo! I ser hopes my Rgement now meets wit yor aprovel! :lol:

 

You assertation that Sammy carried the team through it's dismal years is funny! Oh, to be the King of Crap like Sammy was! And if I'm not allowed to assume some things (i.e., Sammy's visable change in body shape and dramatic drop in performance could have been caused by his quick w/d from some unknown substances) then you are not allowed to assume some things. Namely that we wouldn't have made it to the playoffs in '98 and '03 without him (however horribly those two events turned out in the end). We would have had someone palying right field, agreed? Maybe we would have not only made the palyoffs, but gone on to win the WS w/o Slammin Sammy - we just don't know . . .

 

And so I guess neither one of us really knows the truth, eh? Sammy is God - Sammy is a tool. All we know for sure is that not one GM wanted him enough to even ask nicely fpor his services! What's that say about your hero???

 

I'm uncomfortable with all the worship - that's all . . .

 

You think we would have made the playoffs without Sosa in 98? If so we can just end this conversation because there is no point in going further.

[Springfield_CUBBY]

CATFIGHT!!! 8)

 

Reminds me of cubs.com. Many "halfway decent" conversations start. And just end up with the same 2 people posting back and forth back and forth in an arguement. Everyone else had stopped posting. :lol:

 

You are right TheGilesBros - thanks for putting it that way. This is dumb and I'm done. Go Cubs!

[CP_414]

CATFIGHT!!! 8)

 

Reminds me of cubs.com. Many "halfway decent" conversations start. And just end up with the same 2 people posting back and forth back and forth in an arguement. Everyone else had stopped posting. :lol:

 

Feel free to jump in and add whatever you would like to the discussion. It's not intended to be a private conversation.

[DCNashville]

 

Thanks fer yer kind werds Perfesser Woo! I ser hopes my Rgement now meets wit yor aprovel! :lol:

 

You assertation that Sammy carried the team through it's dismal years is funny! Oh, to be the King of Crap like Sammy was! And if I'm not allowed to assume some things (i.e., Sammy's visable change in body shape and dramatic drop in performance could have been caused by his quick w/d from some unknown substances) then you are not allowed to assume some things. Namely that we wouldn't have made it to the playoffs in '98 and '03 without him (however horribly those two events turned out in the end). We would have had someone palying right field, agreed? Maybe we would have not only made the palyoffs, but gone on to win the WS w/o Slammin Sammy - we just don't know . . .

 

 

This is an absurd argument. Sammy had arguably one of the greatest seasons in MLB history in 1998. He absolutely carried the Cubs...thats not just an assumption, the numbers bear it out. The case you are making is ridiculous.

[A New Era]

CATFIGHT!!! 8)

 

Reminds me of cubs.com. Many "halfway decent" conversations start. And just end up with the same 2 people posting back and forth back and forth in an arguement. Everyone else had stopped posting. :lol:

 

Feel free to jump in and add whatever you would like to the discussion. It's not intended to be a private conversation.

 

That was my addition. :lol: Now let's argue back and forth about that while everyone else watches us. :lol:

 

I'm really neutral about sammy. He WAS Mr. Cub. On the other hand he seemed very self centered. Great as "Mr. Cub", but probably not the nicest guy. I think both of your stances are pretty absurd. Ones bashing him relentlessly, the other defending him relentlessly. None of us really KNOW Sammy enough to do either. You both are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, just let it go.

 

I think a more important disccusion would be, why couldn't we have an owner that cared enough about wining that would have built around sammy sosa in the 90's/2000's. Man what a team that, COULD have been.

[Andy]

 

Thanks fer yer kind werds Perfesser Woo! I ser hopes my Rgement now meets wit yor aprovel! :lol:

 

You assertation that Sammy carried the team through it's dismal years is funny! Oh, to be the King of Crap like Sammy was! And if I'm not allowed to assume some things (i.e., Sammy's visable change in body shape and dramatic drop in performance could have been caused by his quick w/d from some unknown substances) then you are not allowed to assume some things. Namely that we wouldn't have made it to the playoffs in '98 and '03 without him (however horribly those two events turned out in the end). We would have had someone palying right field, agreed? Maybe we would have not only made the palyoffs, but gone on to win the WS w/o Slammin Sammy - we just don't know . . .

 

 

This is an absurd argument. Sammy had arguably one of the greatest seasons in MLB history in 1998. He absolutely carried the Cubs...thats not just an assumption, the numbers bear it out. The case you are making is ridiculous.

Sammy's 1998: 308/377/647, 66 hr, 158 rbi, 73 bb, 158 k

Sammy's 2001: 328/437/737, 64 hr, 160 rbi, 116 bb, 153 k

 

As outstanding as Sammy's 1998 season was, his 2001 season is among the greatest in history, at least for someone that we don't know was juicing during the season (which would DQ all those absurd numbers Barry put up from 2001-04).

 

In addition, the team Sammy very nearly took to the playoffs by himself in 2001 was even worse than the team he took to the playoffs in 1998, as I've posted before. Sammy's 2001 is almost inarguably one of the greatest offensive seasons anyone's ever had, all things considered.

[fromthestretch]

He carried us to the playoffs in 1998, and we wouldn't have made it without him in 2003 either. For this Cubs fan, it's a big deal to be in the playoffs 2 times in 5 years, and Sammy is a HUGE reason why. "

 

Thanks fer yer kind werds Perfesser Woo! I ser hopes my Rgement now meets wit yor aprovel! :lol:

 

You assertation that Sammy carried the team through it's dismal years is funny! Oh, to be the King of Crap like Sammy was! And if I'm not allowed to assume some things (i.e., Sammy's visable change in body shape and dramatic drop in performance could have been caused by his quick w/d from some unknown substances) then you are not allowed to assume some things. Namely that we wouldn't have made it to the playoffs in '98 and '03 without him (however horribly those two events turned out in the end). We would have had someone palying right field, agreed? Maybe we would have not only made the palyoffs, but gone on to win the WS w/o Slammin Sammy - we just don't know . . .

 

And so I guess neither one of us really knows the truth, eh? Sammy is God - Sammy is a tool. All we know for sure is that not one GM wanted him enough to even ask nicely fpor his services! What's that say about your hero???

 

I'm uncomfortable with all the worship - that's all . . .

 

It's one thing to not like Sammy. It's another to completely ignore what he did on the field. There are maybe 10-12 hitters in the history of the game that you can argue have had a season equal to or better than Sosa's 2001 campaign. His numbers speak for themselves. Three 60-homer seasons. Led the league in homers in two seasons when he didn't hit 60. An MVP award. Led the league in total bases three times (finished second once). The man could hit, there's no denying that.

 

As for steroid allegations, maybe he took something illegal, maybe he didn't. However, there are a lot of hitters who have been caught taking something who haven't even put up good numbers, let alone great ones like Sammy. And judging by the number of pitchers who have been caught using performance-enhancing drugs, chances are Sosa faced a lot of "juiced-up" pitchers during his career. People aren't calling it the "steroid era" simply because only one or two players too performance-enhancing drugs. Not excusing any possible drug-use by Sammy, just pointing a few things out.

 

Sosa's probably better off retiring. He might still be effective in a platoon situation, as he did hit lefties well last season, but I doubt he wants to be a part-time player.

 

No one's claiming he's a saint, but he was a great hitter for quite a few seasons as a Cub. There's no denying that.

[soccer10k]

A good player doesn't rise to stardom and and fall from grace that quick unless there is more to the story

 

Yep, you're right. I'm sure Sosa's downfall had absolutely nothing to do with his getting drilled in the head in 2003 when his helmet shattered. You remember the incident? It was the one that caused Sosa to move further away from the plate so he couldn't even dream of hitting an outside pitch. That is what killed Sammy. Say what you want about the steroids and throw out all the accusations you want. But you can't completely ignore Sammy's getting beaned. Sure, the steroids probably had some effect on his downfall, but I believe that the beaning ultimately had more of an affect and really sped up the process.

 

EDIT: I have no desire to see Sosa play again and tarnish his legacy even further. Please stay retired Sammy.

[JWCUB]

A good player doesn't rise to stardom and and fall from grace that quick unless there is more to the story

 

Yep, you're right. I'm sure Sosa's downfall had absolutely nothing to do with his getting drilled in the head in 2003 when his helmet shattered. You remember the incident? It was the one that caused Sosa to move further away from the plate so he couldn't even dream of hitting an outside pitch. That is what killed Sammy. Say what you want about the steroids and throw out all the accusations you want. But you can't completely ignore Sammy's getting beaned. Sure, the steroids probably had some effect on his downfall, but I believe that the beaning ultimately had more of an affect and really sped up the process.

 

EDIT: I have no desire to see Sosa play again and tarnish his legacy even further. Please stay retired Sammy.

 

My wife and I talk about this all the time. We are of the same opinion. Sammy was not the same after getting hit in the head. And he knew it. Hence the corked bat. I think it was too much mentally for him to deal with. I agree with your post 100%.

[Chocolate Milk]

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but the Cubs have sucked ever since they ran Sosa out of town.

 

The curse of Sosa? I'm convinced.

[hardcorecubfan]

Sammy's either going to come back and be God awful, or he's going to stay retired. I really can't see any way he would be even a decent hitter at this point. Stay retired, Sammy.

 

ie: Ryan Sandberg attempt at return

[CubsBullsBears]

He did not carry us in 2003. Alou, Lofton, Ramirez, Simon (when they got here), and the pitching carried us.

[Andy]

He did not carry us in 2003. Alou, Lofton, Ramirez, Simon (when they got here), and the pitching carried us.

Alou in 2003: 280/357/462. That's decidedly mediocre, at best, for a corner outfielder.

 

Sosa: 279/358/553. Not great, but certainly a much bigger part of our success than Alou.

 

It was pretty much the pitching and some luck that carried us.

[RedIvyCub]

Sammy is one of the greatest Cubs of all time even if he left a game early.

 

Yea, and David Berkowitz was a great mailman, even if he was the Son of Sam . . .

 

Face it, Sammy's a tool - plain and simple

 

Right. Because leaving the last game of the season early is the same as being a serial killer. The Anti-Sosa vandetta that has happened in and around this organization since 2004 is absurd.

 

Great insight Springfield_CUBBY! Your logic and reasons for ripping one of the greatest Cubs ever is so eloquently presented.

 

How does being the king of Home Run Derby make him one of the greatest Cubs ever? That isn't baseball...and yes, I detested all of that in 98.

[RedIvyCub]

Sammy is one of the greatest Cubs of all time even if he left a game early.

 

Yea, and David Berkowitz was a great mailman, even if he was the Son of Sam . . .

 

Face it, Sammy's a tool - plain and simple

Do adults actually call people tools? I remember kids saying that in high school, but I haven't heard it since then.

 

Listen to the Score...happens all the time...which is why I no longer listen to the Score.

[RedIvyCub]

Now, until there is any proof that Sosa was a steroids user any speculation that he was juiced is unfounded. He has no Balco, no grand jury indictment, no positive test. Maybe you think he used, maybe lots of other people do as well, but there simply isn't proof.

 

Then you go on to say...

 

As for the fact that he is arrogant, I hate to break it to you but he is not the only one. Do you dislike all arrogant athletes or just Sosa? Do you like Ben Wallace? He refused to reenter a game in Orlando this year. Is he arrogant? Do you like Miguel Cabrera? Is he a "tool" for being arrogant? Was it arrogant of Kerry Wood to talk it upon himself to smash Sammy's boombox? Is Todd Walker self-infactuated for focusing so much on what the announcers say about him? If you rip Sammy for being arrogant and self-infactuated the same standard must apply to the rest of the league.

 

I have one word for you...hypocrite. You also have NO proof as to who smashed Sammy's boombox. There is none.

 

And the bottom line...if you honestly think that the last game of 04 was the only time Sammy left early from a game, you are sorely mistaken,

[Roast]

Allright, I've tried my best to stay out of this thread because any argument about sammy goes the same way.

 

Party A: Sammy cheats, sammy corked his bat and i refuse to listen to his excuse for that which actually makes logical sense, sammy only thinks of his self, sammy is a jerk who eats babys and clubs seals, sammy left early. I HATE SAMMY. Oh, and he did steroids alot.

 

Party B: Sammy is one of the greatest offensive players in chicago cubs history, its sick how people have totally disowned him and forgotten about that. There is no proof sammy ever did roids. There is a logical reason to believe his corked bat story. His 2001 season was one of the best offensive seasons in history this side of Cobbs' 1911 season.

 

It quickly turns into a penis measuring contest of two groups of people:

 

The people who were brought into baseball, or reinterested in baseball by sammy and the 98 cubs (me)

 

And those who were fans long before sosa, or those who were fans because of the 03 season.

 

There are exceptions to the rule but thats pretty much the norm.

 

But this is probably one of the more ignorant statements I've ever read:

 

 

And the bottom line...if you honestly think that the last game of 04 was the only time Sammy left early from a game, you are sorely mistaken,

 

Oh really? What proof do you have to back this up? What even gives you the idea this may be remotely true? If it was, why wasnt it brought up earlier by cubs brass in a game that actually mattered, unlike the last game of 04.

 

Furthermore, I wish people would stop calling sammy selfish. You dont like him, fine, but to say he's selfish shows how very bitter people are towards him, because its a blatant lie.

 

Lets take a look at some of sosa's humanitarian work:

 

-He organised the Sammy Sosa Charitable Fund (SSCF) in 1998 to help further the health standards of children in the D.R.

 

-After Hurricane George he used the SSCF to help organize relief efforts in the D.R. He even flew down there personally and handed out supplied.

 

-He has invested a load of money into a baseball school in the dominican republic, this school houses players and provides clothes and meals.

 

-For each HR he hit during the 98 season he donated 40 computers to schools in the dominican republic.

 

As a matter of fact his work with hurricane George earned him the 1999 ESPY for Humanitarian of the Year.

 

 

Dont like sammy if you dont want to, but dont call him selfish. Its ignorant and untrue.

[ConstableRabbit]

A good player doesn't rise to stardom and and fall from grace that quick unless there is more to the story

 

Yep, you're right. I'm sure Sosa's downfall had absolutely nothing to do with his getting drilled in the head in 2003 when his helmet shattered. You remember the incident? It was the one that caused Sosa to move further away from the plate so he couldn't even dream of hitting an outside pitch. That is what killed Sammy. Say what you want about the steroids and throw out all the accusations you want. But you can't completely ignore Sammy's getting beaned. Sure, the steroids probably had some effect on his downfall, but I believe that the beaning ultimately had more of an affect and really sped up the process.

 

EDIT: I have no desire to see Sosa play again and tarnish his legacy even further. Please stay retired Sammy.

 

My wife and I talk about this all the time. We are of the same opinion. Sammy was not the same after getting hit in the head. And he knew it. Hence the corked bat. I think it was too much mentally for him to deal with. I agree with your post 100%.

 

I actually just had this discussion with my dad. That ball easily could have killed him (or really, really messed him up). Instead, it just severely hindered his career.