Update on Wood

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

felt "something" after about 60 pitches

No mention of this from Len, only that Wood started to feel fatigued after 60 pitches.

 

Just different words. Len said he didn't feel good after 60 pitches.

 

He didn't feel "something". Way for the original poster to spin it negatively. He said he felt fatigued. I guess that's "something", but historically, in the past, "something" constituted an injury or tightness.

 

Let's remember he's 5 starts removed from Shoulder surgery, it might take a little more playing time to get back to normal status and normal recovery status.

 

Then again, we can insinuate his "bad" character and spread BS lies about him breaking boomboxes even though he came on the radio and unequivocally denied doing that and/or talk about how he's a joke and should retire at 28 or 29.

 

Whatever.

 

From reading the previous posts it seem that the original poster wasn't putting spin on it. He put the word "something" in quotation marks, so it seems that that is the way Santo referred to it. At least that is what I'm getting out of it.

 

So he just posted what Santo said. He couldn't elaborate becasue it seems Santo didn't elaborate.

[badger1679666666]

felt "something" after about 60 pitches

No mention of this from Len, only that Wood started to feel fatigued after 60 pitches.

 

Just different words. Len said he didn't feel good after 60 pitches.

 

He didn't feel "something". Way for the original poster to spin it negatively. He said he felt fatigued. I guess that's "something", but historically, in the past, "something" constituted an injury or tightness.

 

Let's remember he's 5 starts removed from Shoulder surgery, it might take a little more playing time to get back to normal status and normal recovery status.

 

Then again, we can insinuate his "bad" character and spread BS lies about him breaking boomboxes even though he came on the radio and unequivocally denied doing that and/or talk about how he's a joke and should retire at 28 or 29.

 

Whatever.

 

From reading the previous posts it seem that the original poster wasn't putting spin on it. He put the word "something" in quotation marks, so it seems that that is the way Santo referred to it. At least that is what I'm getting out of it.

 

Well he didn't really feel something, he felt fatigued. Which isn't good btw, but it's better than feeling a twinge or something like that.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

felt "something" after about 60 pitches

No mention of this from Len, only that Wood started to feel fatigued after 60 pitches.

 

Just different words. Len said he didn't feel good after 60 pitches.

 

He didn't feel "something". Way for the original poster to spin it negatively. He said he felt fatigued. I guess that's "something", but historically, in the past, "something" constituted an injury or tightness.

 

Let's remember he's 5 starts removed from Shoulder surgery, it might take a little more playing time to get back to normal status and normal recovery status.

 

Then again, we can insinuate his "bad" character and spread BS lies about him breaking boomboxes even though he came on the radio and unequivocally denied doing that and/or talk about how he's a joke and should retire at 28 or 29.

 

Whatever.

 

From reading the previous posts it seem that the original poster wasn't putting spin on it. He put the word "something" in quotation marks, so it seems that that is the way Santo referred to it. At least that is what I'm getting out of it.

 

Well he didn't really feel something, he felt fatigued. Which isn't good btw, but it's better than feeling a twinge or something like that.

 

I guess you have to blame Santo for that report.

[badger1679666666]

felt "something" after about 60 pitches

No mention of this from Len, only that Wood started to feel fatigued after 60 pitches.

 

Just different words. Len said he didn't feel good after 60 pitches.

 

He didn't feel "something". Way for the original poster to spin it negatively. He said he felt fatigued. I guess that's "something", but historically, in the past, "something" constituted an injury or tightness.

 

Let's remember he's 5 starts removed from Shoulder surgery, it might take a little more playing time to get back to normal status and normal recovery status.

 

Then again, we can insinuate his "bad" character and spread BS lies about him breaking boomboxes even though he came on the radio and unequivocally denied doing that and/or talk about how he's a joke and should retire at 28 or 29.

 

Whatever.

 

From reading the previous posts it seem that the original poster wasn't putting spin on it. He put the word "something" in quotation marks, so it seems that that is the way Santo referred to it. At least that is what I'm getting out of it.

 

Well he didn't really feel something, he felt fatigued. Which isn't good btw, but it's better than feeling a twinge or something like that.

 

I guess you have to blame Santo for that report.

 

You are correct sir, I retract my statement regarding the spin on the original post.

[ConstableRabbit]

I don't know what to say other than "how did it get this bad?"

 

Geez...

 

Edit: I know literally how, I'm just saying

[Sammy Sofa]

In a perfect world, Kerry and the Cubs would come to some kind of deal where they'd shut him down this year and FULLY rehab him from the surgery, and they can sign him relatively cheap for one year next season and see what he can do. If that was the case, I'm fully confident Wood would come back next year and either be a good to great starter or bullpen thrower. But this is not that world.

[oldstyle81]

felt "something" after about 60 pitches

No mention of this from Len, only that Wood started to feel fatigued after 60 pitches.

 

Just different words. Len said he didn't feel good after 60 pitches.

 

He didn't feel "something". Way for the original poster to spin it negatively. He said he felt fatigued. I guess that's "something", but historically, in the past, "something" constituted an injury or tightness.

 

Let's remember he's 5 starts removed from Shoulder surgery, it might take a little more playing time to get back to normal status and normal recovery status.

 

Then again, we can insinuate his "bad" character and spread BS lies about him breaking boomboxes even though he came on the radio and unequivocally denied doing that and/or talk about how he's a joke and should retire at 28 or 29.

 

Whatever.

 

From reading the previous posts it seem that the original poster wasn't putting spin on it. He put the word "something" in quotation marks, so it seems that that is the way Santo referred to it. At least that is what I'm getting out of it.

 

Well he didn't really feel something, he felt fatigued. Which isn't good btw, but it's better than feeling a twinge or something like that.

 

well baker said in the pregame wood "didnt feel right" after 75 pitches so who knows what kinda spin is being used by the organization. i dont think its anything more than just soreness from the surgery but who knows what the problem is.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And everyone hates it when their wood doesn't feel just right.

[SoonerCubFan]

If the problem is only after 60 pitches time to send him to the bullpen. Hendry needs to sit with Wood and hammer out a one year deal with a base of 4 million and incentives if he can stay healthy. Let Wood work out his issues in the bullpen and then next spring try and get him stretched out again to be a starter if not you can slot him into the bullpen.

Kerry needs to build up arm strength. He wouldn't be able to properly rehab while coming in for relief. And they really have no need for him in the bullpen.

 

I don't see this as true on a couple of fronts. For one, it seems very likely that he simply will never be able to handle the stresses of starting this year, if ever. Second, there are examples where teams used starters out of the pen for a whole year (Matt Morris in 2000) for the exact purpose of slowly building up arm strength.

 

This seems like such a no brainer to me, especially the way his arm responded to the pen last year. It's his only hope of salvaging a career, with the possibility that he could become a dominant pitcher again - just in a different and equally important role. To me, if we can't have the power arm of 1998-2003, he's not worth pursuing any more as he's not going to be a finesse pitcher. The bullpen is the only way.

[Jon]

If the problem is only after 60 pitches time to send him to the bullpen. Hendry needs to sit with Wood and hammer out a one year deal with a base of 4 million and incentives if he can stay healthy. Let Wood work out his issues in the bullpen and then next spring try and get him stretched out again to be a starter if not you can slot him into the bullpen.

Kerry needs to build up arm strength. He wouldn't be able to properly rehab while coming in for relief. And they really have no need for him in the bullpen.

 

I don't see this as true on a couple of fronts. For one, it seems very likely that he simply will never be able to handle the stresses of starting this year, if ever. Second, there are examples where teams used starters out of the pen for a whole year (Matt Morris in 2000) for the exact purpose of slowly building up arm strength.

 

This seems like such a no brainer to me, especially the way his arm responded to the pen last year. It's his only hope of salvaging a career, with the possibility that he could become a dominant pitcher again - just in a different and equally important role. To me, if we can't have the power arm of 1998-2003, he's not worth pursuing any more as he's not going to be a finesse pitcher. The bullpen is the only way.

What is there to suggest that he likely won't be able to start this year or for the rest of his career?

 

Irregular usage patterns by a manager who has no idea how to handle a bullpen aren't going to help Wood, nor will pitching out of the bullpen help his next contract. The Cubs don't have a use for him in the bullpen and can much better help him fully rehab on the side and on a minor league rehab assignment.

[SoonerCubFan]

If the problem is only after 60 pitches time to send him to the bullpen. Hendry needs to sit with Wood and hammer out a one year deal with a base of 4 million and incentives if he can stay healthy. Let Wood work out his issues in the bullpen and then next spring try and get him stretched out again to be a starter if not you can slot him into the bullpen.

Kerry needs to build up arm strength. He wouldn't be able to properly rehab while coming in for relief. And they really have no need for him in the bullpen.

 

I don't see this as true on a couple of fronts. For one, it seems very likely that he simply will never be able to handle the stresses of starting this year, if ever. Second, there are examples where teams used starters out of the pen for a whole year (Matt Morris in 2000) for the exact purpose of slowly building up arm strength.

 

This seems like such a no brainer to me, especially the way his arm responded to the pen last year. It's his only hope of salvaging a career, with the possibility that he could become a dominant pitcher again - just in a different and equally important role. To me, if we can't have the power arm of 1998-2003, he's not worth pursuing any more as he's not going to be a finesse pitcher. The bullpen is the only way.

What is there to suggest that he likely won't be able to start this year or for the rest of his career?

 

Irregular usage patterns by a manager who has no idea how to handle a bullpen aren't going to help Wood, nor will pitching out of the bullpen help his next contract. The Cubs don't have a use for him in the bullpen and can much better help him fully rehab on the side and on a minor league rehab assignment.

 

As for the starting part, his performance over the past 2 years seems pretty convincing, as he continually breaks down after a certain threshold of pitches/outings.

 

As for his use in the pen, I agree with the concern of how they'd use him. But in the offseason when I was all for him in the pen for 2006, I laid out a plan where they'd have him on a scheduled inning or two every game that Maddux pitches. Maddux never finishes a game, and the contrast in pitching style would be tough on the opponents. Depending on how the rest of the rotation shakes out, you could do the same for another starter so that he gets regularly scheduled work a couple of days a week, along with endurance-building side sessions. He could start warming up several minutes ahead of time just as he would for a start. I have zero confidence DB or LR would follow such a plan, but it seems doable to me on all fronts - just as the Cards did with Morris.

 

Also, after watching Dempster this year, I see a very valid role for him to work towards if his arm responds to the pen as well as it did last year. I again opine that he has a better future of potential dominance as a closer than as a starter. There is a precedence after all.

 

As for his next contract, he and his agent may view the way you state, but he's also one more injury away from little value as a starter as is. If he wants to remian a Cub, I'd do my best to convince him to take his firebrand attitude to the closer role with the idea that this is the one way he could get his overpowering stuff back, and in a role he could fill on a cold October night.

[Jon]

If the problem is only after 60 pitches time to send him to the bullpen. Hendry needs to sit with Wood and hammer out a one year deal with a base of 4 million and incentives if he can stay healthy. Let Wood work out his issues in the bullpen and then next spring try and get him stretched out again to be a starter if not you can slot him into the bullpen.

Kerry needs to build up arm strength. He wouldn't be able to properly rehab while coming in for relief. And they really have no need for him in the bullpen.

 

I don't see this as true on a couple of fronts. For one, it seems very likely that he simply will never be able to handle the stresses of starting this year, if ever. Second, there are examples where teams used starters out of the pen for a whole year (Matt Morris in 2000) for the exact purpose of slowly building up arm strength.

 

This seems like such a no brainer to me, especially the way his arm responded to the pen last year. It's his only hope of salvaging a career, with the possibility that he could become a dominant pitcher again - just in a different and equally important role. To me, if we can't have the power arm of 1998-2003, he's not worth pursuing any more as he's not going to be a finesse pitcher. The bullpen is the only way.

What is there to suggest that he likely won't be able to start this year or for the rest of his career?

 

Irregular usage patterns by a manager who has no idea how to handle a bullpen aren't going to help Wood, nor will pitching out of the bullpen help his next contract. The Cubs don't have a use for him in the bullpen and can much better help him fully rehab on the side and on a minor league rehab assignment.

 

As for the starting part, his performance over the past 2 years seems pretty convincing, as he continually breaks down after a certain threshold of pitches/outings.

 

As for his use in the pen, I agree with the concern of how they'd use him. But in the offseason when I was all for him in the pen for 2006, I laid out a plan where they'd have him on a scheduled inning or two every game that Maddux pitches. Maddux never finishes a game, and the contrast in pitching style would be tough on the opponents. Depending on how the rest of the rotation shakes out, you could do the same for another starter so that he gets regularly scheduled work a couple of days a week, along with endurance-building side sessions. He could start warming up several minutes ahead of time just as he would for a start. I have zero confidence DB or LR would follow such a plan, but it seems doable to me on all fronts - just as the Cards did with Morris.

 

Also, after watching Dempster this year, I see a very valid role for him to work towards if his arm responds to the pen as well as it did last year. I again opine that he has a better future of potential dominance as a closer than as a starter. There is a precedence after all.

 

As for his next contract, he and his agent may view the way you state, but he's also one more injury away from little value as a starter as is. If he wants to remian a Cub, I'd do my best to convince him to take his firebrand attitude to the closer role with the idea that this is the one way he could get his overpowering stuff back, and in a role he could fill on a cold October night.

Wood averaged 31 starts between 2001 and 2003. In 2004, he had a bicep injury that kept him out for a while, but that wasn't a "serious" injury. And for the past year, he's been battling a single injury and subsequent surgery. At 29 years of age, it is too soon to say his starting career is over.

 

If you combine the loss of value that comes from switching from a starter to a reliever, the lack of need for another reliever/closer, and his contract status, there isn't much to gain for either the Cubs or for Wood by going to the bullpen.

[SoonerCubFan]

If you combine the loss of value that comes from switching from a starter to a reliever, the lack of need for another reliever/closer, and his contract status, there isn't much to gain for either the Cubs or for Wood by going to the bullpen.

 

Well, I laid out my reasons how it would be quite beneficial to all concerned. Smoltz gained a lot from his switch, as did his team. I have no illusions that the Cubs would be as savvy as the Braves, but it could certainly work.

 

Hey, I was Kerry's biggest defender on other Cubs' message boards back in the day. If I thought for one minute he could get back to his 2003 form and keep it, I'd be just as adamant that he follow that course. But, after watching him throw about 8-10 MPH slower now just to preserve his arm for 80+ pitches, I have serious doubts he'll ever get back there, at least not for a while, and slowly building back in the bullpen has worked for other starters.

 

I'm sure we'll continue to disagree, and I'm sure the Cubs will follow the worst possible path that will either get him hurt again or will get him primed to have a great career somewhere else.

[gerby23]

Ok, I never get involved in these threads, but I played against Kerry in HS. And we all sucked; my whole team. That being said, we all also knew that he would be done very early on in his career. His mechanics were awful and he threw 85 % breaking balls. As much as I wish, hope, and pray, I don't see him EVER being an effective starter again--for any club, much less the Cubs.

[Mark_R]

What is there to suggest that he likely won't be able to start this year or for the rest of his career?

 

 

What is there to suggest Wood will make some sort of recovery and pitch regularly/effectively again this season? The silly questions go both ways.

 

I'll go with Wood's track record of not pitching as the basis on the belief he won't be back in any regularly scheduled (ie every fifth or sixth day) appearance the rest of the season.

[gerby23]

What is there to suggest that he likely won't be able to start this year or for the rest of his career?

 

 

What is there to suggest Wood will make some sort of recovery and pitch regularly/effectively again this season? The silly questions go both ways.

 

I'll go with Wood's track record of not pitching as the basis on the belief he won't be back in any regularly scheduled (ie every fifth or sixth day) appearance the rest of the season.

And/or going for more than 5 innings...

[bc2k]

If I remember discussion about the Players' Union contract, no player can be resigned by his current team for less than ~80% of his previous year's salary. So the lowest Kerry could resign with us if bought out is ~10 million.

 

This means we can forget about signing KW for an incentive-based contract like we did with Dempster and Miller.

 

I'm not well-versed on the Union's contract rules, so if someone who is can provide clearer information on this, we'd all benefit from it.

[A New Era]

If I remember discussion about the Players' Union contract, no player can be resigned by his current team for less than ~80% of his previous year's salary. So the lowest Kerry could resign with us if bought out is ~10 million.

 

This means we can forget about signing KW for an incentive-based contract like we did with Dempster and Miller.

 

I'm not well-versed on the Union's contract rules, so if someone who is can provide clearer information on this, we'd all benefit from it.

 

God that would be great. That would mean little or no chance on relying on Wood again next year! YAY!!

[badger1679666666]

If I remember discussion about the Players' Union contract, no player can be resigned by his current team for less than ~80% of his previous year's salary. So the lowest Kerry could resign with us if bought out is ~10 million.

 

This means we can forget about signing KW for an incentive-based contract like we did with Dempster and Miller.

 

I'm not well-versed on the Union's contract rules, so if someone who is can provide clearer information on this, we'd all benefit from it.

 

God that would be great. That would mean little or no chance on relying on Wood again next year! YAY!!

 

Will you be saying this when he goes somewhere with a competetent pitching coach and performs like he did in 1998 and 2001-2003?

[A New Era]

If I remember discussion about the Players' Union contract, no player can be resigned by his current team for less than ~80% of his previous year's salary. So the lowest Kerry could resign with us if bought out is ~10 million.

 

This means we can forget about signing KW for an incentive-based contract like we did with Dempster and Miller.

 

I'm not well-versed on the Union's contract rules, so if someone who is can provide clearer information on this, we'd all benefit from it.

 

God that would be great. That would mean little or no chance on relying on Wood again next year! YAY!!

 

Will you be saying this when he goes somewhere with a competetent pitching coach and performs like he did in 1998 and 2001-2003?

 

Yes, you can hold me to that, if that ever happens, and I will EAT CROW, I promise!! Are you telling me you really would spend $10 million on Wood next year? I take it you would based on your reply.

[NCCubFan]

If I remember discussion about the Players' Union contract, no player can be resigned by his current team for less than ~80% of his previous year's salary. So the lowest Kerry could resign with us if bought out is ~10 million.

I'm not positive, but I believe the maximum 20% cut only applies to players who are not yet eligible for free agency. That would prevent a team from severely cutting a player's salary when the player can't go elsewhere. When a player is a free agent, however, I don't think there is a maximum cut, since the player could choose to go elsewhere if he isn't willing to accept the cut. I could be wrong, but that's how I think it works.

[soccer10k]

I wouldn't mind bringing Wood back with an incentive-laden one year deal assuming that the base salary is in the $2-3 mil a year range.

[frostwyrm]

So goony, how many starts was that you said Prior and Wood were going make this year...50? 60? I'll seriously be surprised if they make 10 between them.

I predicted 15 starts for Kerry -- 5 good, 5 so-so, and 5 meltdowns, and I was accused of excessive pessimism. Kinda funny in retrospect.

[NorthsideAvenger]

KW Update:

 

KW could be done for the year:

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-csep21.html

 

I just wish the Cubs organization would have people that ACTUALLY know what they are doing.

[CuseCubFan69]

This would be depressing if not for two things:

 

1. We aren't contending for anything this year.

 

2. I have already realized Wood will not be back.

 

What happens to Wood this year really doesn't affect the Cubs' present or future.

 

What stinks IMO is that the Cubs can't even trade him because he has no value. I also wonder why he was so tired I mean, shouldn't he be working on his legs by riding a bike or running? Or was it mental fatigue?