Pfft. Speedy Lead-Off Man Indeed...

[BigSlick]

We've all complained about Pierre before, but man oh man, how has that speed helped us. At least he's that prototypical lead off man, right? Steals a ton of bases right?

 

Lets compare him, to, oh a fatty that has no business leading off:

 

How about Kevin Youkilis, the Greek God of Walks (As Billy Beane likened him)

 

 

AVG OBP SLG OPS

.317 .431 .497 .928

 

36 Runs scored (3 today)

 

5 homers, and just for fun, one stolen base.

 

Pierre? Well, thats another story:

 

 

AVG OBP SLG OPS

.230 .267 .286 .553

 

24 runs scored

 

14 STOLEN BASES! (amazing considering how rarely he's been on base at all)

 

Wow, that speed really has charged the team. Those pitchers are so scared with him on base they are still keeping us last in the league in runs scored.

 

C'mon guys, walks aren't important at all. A fatty getting on base 43.1% of the time isn't gonna help us at all.

[CubfaninCA]

Anyone who predicted a .267 obp for Pierre can pick my lottery numbers next time I play.

[BigSlick]

Anyone who predicted a .267 obp for Pierre can pick my lottery numbers next time I play.

 

I'd still trade his career average for Youkilis' beefy .431 (It is .350 BTW, and its been dropping for a while)

[CubfaninCA]

Anyone who predicted a .267 obp for Pierre can pick my lottery numbers next time I play.

 

I'd still trade his career average for Youkilis' beefy .431 (It is .350 BTW, and its been dropping for a while)

 

epstein won't and where does youkilis play in chicago? he's a 1b/3b right?

[BigSlick]

Anyone who predicted a .267 obp for Pierre can pick my lottery numbers next time I play.

 

I'd still trade his career average for Youkilis' beefy .431 (It is .350 BTW, and its been dropping for a while)

 

epstein won't and where does youkilis play in chicago? he's a 1b/3b right?

 

I don't, just having pipe dreams.

 

I'm not actually proposing anything, I'm just saying, destroy the conventional thinking. Speed is far overrated, and fat guys hitting homers and walking...well...aren't.

 

Youkilis is an example of that. Propose to one of the old timers a slow lead off man and they'll blow it off in one second. Unfortunately (for Cubs fans) he's proving them wrong easily enough.

[CubfaninCA]

Anyone who predicted a .267 obp for Pierre can pick my lottery numbers next time I play.

 

I'd still trade his career average for Youkilis' beefy .431 (It is .350 BTW, and its been dropping for a while)

 

epstein won't and where does youkilis play in chicago? he's a 1b/3b right?

 

I don't, just having pipe dreams.

 

I'm not actually proposing anything, I'm just saying, destroy the conventional thinking. Speed is far overrated, and fat guys hitting homers and walking...well...aren't.

 

obviously, speed's not useful when you don't hit.

 

pierre was a.355 obp guy before this year. then he became a cub and the rest is history. :x

[BigSlick]

Anyone who predicted a .267 obp for Pierre can pick my lottery numbers next time I play.

 

I'd still trade his career average for Youkilis' beefy .431 (It is .350 BTW, and its been dropping for a while)

 

epstein won't and where does youkilis play in chicago? he's a 1b/3b right?

 

I don't, just having pipe dreams.

 

I'm not actually proposing anything, I'm just saying, destroy the conventional thinking. Speed is far overrated, and fat guys hitting homers and walking...well...aren't.

 

obviously, speed's not useful when you don't hit.

 

pierre was a.355 obp guy before this year. then he became a cub and the rest is history. :x

 

Other than the .326 year he put up last year with the Marlins. 14 steals and only 24 runs, c'mon now.

 

There is some truth in the "load 'em up, and wait for the 3 run homer." Its certainly more successful then what we're doing right now. We've effectively purged any home run hitting from our lineup, so wheres our success with our speedy team? :lol:

[Cubzfan64]

6'1" and 220 is a fatty?? Personally I think the Cubs could do well with players like Youkilis on the team!! The guy knows how to get on base, has some power and can drive the ball to all parts of the park.

 

He's only 27, gets paid 350K and moved from 3B to 1B when Boston got Lowell and has done an excelent job there defensively. He can play 1B, 3B as well as LF.

 

I'd take him on my team anytime!

[Shavo]

Youkilis is my hero. He's been my favorite not Cub for two years. Just the perfect type of hitter IMO.

[IWU_CUBS_FAN]

my man love for kevin youkilis (sp?) is equal to dusty's man love for neifi...i think my player wins

[Neuby]

It helps to have guys like Ramirez,Oritz,Pena,Lowell,Loretta, Varitek in your lineup to knock you in.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Is it too early to consider the possibility that Pierre could start the entire season for the Cubs in CF and end up with less than 10 RBI?

[sweetpeteman]

Is it too early to consider the possibility that Pierre could start the entire season for the Cubs in CF and end up with less than 10 RBI?

he's projecting to less than 8, so no.

[Pinktermite]

Fat or skinny, does anyone really care how you do it, as long as you get on base? The steals are overrated, and I know you guys will probably chastise me, but Rob Neyer has said it for years, that the steal is an overrated statistic. Getting on base, no matter HOW you do it, is what matters...but I'm preaching to the choir here.

[oldstyle81]

arguablly the best player ever was fat

[Pinktermite]

yup...something umm, Ruth...wasn't it?

[CubfaninCA]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

[Cubzfan64]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

 

oops - sorry - mistype

Edited May 28, 2006 by Cubzfan64

[Cubzfan64]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

 

We both agree that Pierre has to get on base more, but as far as Youkilis goes, he was shoved into the position of being a leadoff hitter when Crisp went down and other than striking out too often and having little speed, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. As far as Ortiz and Manny are concerned, neither of them are setting the world on fire right now. Manny has been pretty much equivalent to our own A Ramirez and although Ortiz has plenty of RBI's which is great, his average isn't where it should be either.

[Productive Outs]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

 

We both agree that Pierre has to get on base more, but as far as Youkilis goes, he was shoved into the position of being a leadoff hitter when Crisp went down and other than striking out too often and having little speed, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. As far as Ortiz and Manny are concerned, neither of them are setting the world on fire right now. Manny has been pretty much equivalent to our own A Ramirez and although Ortiz has plenty of RBI's which is great, his average isn't where it should be either.

 

Manny has been significantly better than Aramis thus far.

[CubfaninCA]

Manny 1.000 ops

Ortiz .921 ops & 14 homers

Lowell .975 ops

 

The Cubs have no one close to that. ARam's @ .809.

 

Pierre's speed creates runs.

[BigSlick]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

 

We both agree that Pierre has to get on base more, but as far as Youkilis goes, he was shoved into the position of being a leadoff hitter when Crisp went down and other than striking out too often and having little speed, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. As far as Ortiz and Manny are concerned, neither of them are setting the world on fire right now. Manny has been pretty much equivalent to our own A Ramirez and although Ortiz has plenty of RBI's which is great, his average isn't where it should be either.

 

I think the interesting thing is that these two things don't really matter that much. While scouts and coaches may prefer to see outs recorded when the ball is put into play (for whatever reason), its really strike outs swinging that should bother scouts. Taking marginal pitches and being called out on strikes isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

Stealing and speed on the basepaths is so unimportant compared to OBP, it almost makes me scream.

[minnesotacubsfan]

yup...something umm, Ruth...wasn't it?

 

 

hes referring to Glendon "[expletive]" Rusch

[3finger]

Anyone who predicted a .267 obp for Pierre can pick my lottery numbers next time I play.

 

 

Baseball Prospectus predicted .348, not great but high enough to make the speed worth something. The problem with Pierre is that if he's not slapping out singles he has essentially no offensive value. Youkilis can walk or hit the occasional dinger even if he's not getting a lot of base hits.

 

Pierre's never hit lower than .276 (he's hitting .231 now) -- my guess is the average will come back up and with it some of Pierre's usefulness. Of course, by that time MLB will have relegated the Cubs to the PCL.

[Schwarber Fan]

I had the pleasure of witnessing Youky's first career HR firsthand :wink: