Von Joshua positioned to take Clines' job?

[Schwarber Fan]

Baker won't be fired, but hitting coach Gene Clines is on the hottest seat, with Class AAA hitting coach Von Joshua -- who might offer a major boost of enthusiasm -- positioned to take his job

 

FULL ARTICLE (about how the Cubs can't do what Houston did)

[Balsa]

As much as I think it would help, I'd be worried about moving our best hitting coach from AAA. In theory, don't those hitters need more help than our MLB players?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

As much as I think it would help, I'd be worried about moving our best hitting coach from AAA. In theory, don't those hitters need more help than our MLB players?

 

Have you seen our hitters? Help--shoot, they need resuscitation.

[Backtobanks]

As much as I think it would help, I'd be worried about moving our best hitting coach from AAA. In theory, don't those hitters need more help than our MLB players?

 

The key words there are "In theory".

[Ding Dong Johnson]

My fear is this: Von Joshua is by all accounts a great hitting coach. If he takes over for Clines and the team continues to tank, he could also get canned.

 

That said, a promotion and given a legitimate shot to succeed is something I definitely want to see from him. Then call up Pie and give him to Von.

[KaiserCesar]

I'd make this switch whenever the roster shakeup comes and a few of the guys AA-AAA come up.

[BigbadB1679666149]

I'm not making this up.

 

Von Joshua career stats: .273/.306/.380 (.380 is SLG, not OBP)

Neifi Perez career stats: .270/.301/.380

 

Gene Clines: .277/.329/.341

 

Since the organizational philosophy is all about aggressiveness, it makes sense that their hitting coaches are masters of the art of never seeing a pitch they didn't like.

[Southpaw191679666239]

If you buy into the theory that changes won't be made unless it's an off-day, the next one is Monday, June 12.

[Jehrico]

As much as I think it would help, I'd be worried about moving our best hitting coach from AAA. In theory, don't those hitters need more help than our MLB players?

 

What good does a great AAA hitting coach do if the guys get to the majors are and ruined by our horrible major league hitting coach? Our BA has dropped roughly 30 points in the last month. I attribute alot of that to Cedeno, Walker, and Murton dropping off during this slump. We all saw the quotes where they were trying to get Murton to change his whole approach at the plate, and now he's sucking. I say Bring Von Joshua back up to get these guys hitting like they were.

 

Plus, the only prospect in AAA that I'd prefer to see Von Joshua work with is Pie, and I have a feeling they're going to bring him up and give him a shot sooner or later anyways, so there won't be anyone at AAA I'm that excited about.

[Jehrico]

I'm not making this up.

 

Von Joshua career stats: .273/.306/.380 (.380 is SLG, not OBP)

Neifi Perez career stats: .270/.301/.380

 

Gene Clines: .277/.329/.341

 

Since the organizational philosophy is all about aggressiveness, it makes sense that their hitting coaches are masters of the art of never seeing a pitch they didn't like.

 

Ever hear the quote, those who can't do, teach (or coach)?

 

Some people just don't have the physical tools (coordination, reflexes, etc) to get the most out of what they know. I think Von Joshua falls into this category. I don't care what his major league numbers were, I'm more concerned with what kind of an approach he's teaching to the kids. And by all accounts, it's pretty solid.

[Fro]

I'm not making this up.

 

Von Joshua career stats: .273/.306/.380 (.380 is SLG, not OBP)

Neifi Perez career stats: .270/.301/.380

 

Gene Clines: .277/.329/.341

 

Since the organizational philosophy is all about aggressiveness, it makes sense that their hitting coaches are masters of the art of never seeing a pitch they didn't like.

 

Yes, because it's proven a guy's ability as a coach is related to how good they were as a player.

[ROBBY51]

I don't care what hitting coach they get, but PLEASE get one quickly.

 

While you are at it how about a pitching coach. These studs we have are super in AA-AAA but when they get here under Laughing Larry they stink.

[David]

I'm not making this up.

 

Von Joshua career stats: .273/.306/.380 (.380 is SLG, not OBP)

Neifi Perez career stats: .270/.301/.380

 

Gene Clines: .277/.329/.341

 

Since the organizational philosophy is all about aggressiveness, it makes sense that their hitting coaches are masters of the art of never seeing a pitch they didn't like.

 

Billy Beane: .219/.246/.296

 

Meanwhile, out of all these guys, Gary Matthews had the best numbers with a .364 career OBP.

 

Means nothing in terms of their coaching ability/philosophy.

[NorthsideAvenger]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bakerdu01.shtml

 

Does anybody else find it weird that Baker had a decent eye during his career (over. 350 OBP 7 time, and 3 other seasons' near .350 OBP)? I mean this is a "dude", who never struck out more the 89 times during any one season in career, and never walked more then 72 times in a season? This dude, was reasonably "patient" as a hitter? What happen between his playing days, and his managing days? :-k

 

762 926 (Dusty's career BB:K ratio as a hitter)

Edited May 28, 2006 by NorthsideAvenger

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'm not making this up.

 

Von Joshua career stats: .273/.306/.380 (.380 is SLG, not OBP)

Neifi Perez career stats: .270/.301/.380

 

Gene Clines: .277/.329/.341

 

Since the organizational philosophy is all about aggressiveness, it makes sense that their hitting coaches are masters of the art of never seeing a pitch they didn't like.

 

While Von wasn't a player who got on base much, he has definitely preached plate discipline to Cubs minor leaguers and has certainly helped guys like Felix Pie and Matt Murton the past few seasons.

[Roast]

I'm not making this up.

 

Von Joshua career stats: .273/.306/.380 (.380 is SLG, not OBP)

Neifi Perez career stats: .270/.301/.380

 

Gene Clines: .277/.329/.341

 

Since the organizational philosophy is all about aggressiveness, it makes sense that their hitting coaches are masters of the art of never seeing a pitch they didn't like.

 

Billy Beane: .219/.246/.296

 

Meanwhile, out of all these guys, Gary Matthews had the best numbers with a .364 career OBP.

 

Means nothing in terms of their coaching ability/philosophy.

 

Exactly; teaching baseball is different then teaching math. If you teach math, you HAVE to be able to do math. But to teach baseball, you dont necissarily have to be the best baseball player. I am confident that I could do a better job (as could 75% of the people here) of stressing plate discipline and such than these clowns; and i'd probably hit about .003/.003/.003.

[SouthSideRyan]

Leo Mazzone never even made the majors.

 

I'd love Zisk or Joshua as the hitting coach, but in the same I feel Rothschild has been undercut every step of the way by Baker, I think a new hitting coach would be too. Before you bring in a new hitting coach you need a total house cleaning of the Baker regime, otherwise you'd have 1B coach Sarge telling guys the exact opposite of what Joshua was telling them.

[KaiserCesar]

Leo Mazzone never even made the majors.

 

I'd love Zisk or Joshua as the hitting coach, but in the same I feel Rothschild has been undercut every step of the way by Baker, I think a new hitting coach would be too. Before you bring in a new hitting coach you need a total house cleaning of the Baker regime, otherwise you'd have 1B coach Sarge telling guys the exact opposite of what Joshua was telling them.

 

I can picture it now.....

 

Felix Pie draws a walk, goes down to first base and is met by Sarge.

 

Sarge: GET BACK TO THE PLATE AND SWING THE BAT!

 

Felix: Okay, coach!

 

Von Joshua: I quit!

[David]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bakerdu01.shtml

 

Does anybody else find it weird that Baker had a decent eye during his career (over. 350 OBP 7 time, and 3 other seasons' near .350 OBP)? I mean this is a "dude", who never struck out more the 89 times during any one season in career, and never walked more then 72 times in a season? This dude, was reasonably "patient" as a hitter? What happen between his playing days, and his managing days? :-k

 

762 926 (Dusty's career BB:K ratio as a hitter)

 

 

I think you're falsely correlating low K totals with patience. As you said, his walk totals were never anything great. There are tons of hitters that aren't patient that barely strike out, i.e. our (s)crappy leadoff man. On the other hand, some of the most patient hitters have very high strikeout totals (i.e. Dunn).

 

They almost go hand in hand. If you're taking a lot of pitches, you're also taking more strikes.

[NorthsideAvenger]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bakerdu01.shtml

 

Does anybody else find it weird that Baker had a decent eye during his career (over. 350 OBP 7 time, and 3 other seasons' near .350 OBP)? I mean this is a "dude", who never struck out more the 89 times during any one season in career, and never walked more then 72 times in a season? This dude, was reasonably "patient" as a hitter? What happen between his playing days, and his managing days? :-k

 

762 926 (Dusty's career BB:K ratio as a hitter)

 

 

I think you're falsely correlating low K totals with patience. As you said, his walk totals were never anything great. There are tons of hitters that aren't patient that barely strike out, i.e. our (s)crappy leadoff man. On the other hand, some of the most patient hitters have very high strikeout totals (i.e. Dunn).

 

They almost go hand in hand. If you're taking a lot of pitches, you're also taking more strikes.

 

I said "reasonably", I didn't say he was great....but "the dude" did still had an OBP near over .350 10 times in his career, therefore he was semi-patient.

[NCCubFan]

If you buy into the theory that changes won't be made unless it's an off-day, the next one is Monday, June 12.

No, the next one is this Thursday (June 1).

[LeftCoastCubFan]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bakerdu01.shtml

 

Does anybody else find it weird that Baker had a decent eye during his career (over. 350 OBP 7 time, and 3 other seasons' near .350 OBP)? I mean this is a "dude", who never struck out more the 89 times during any one season in career, and never walked more then 72 times in a season? This dude, was reasonably "patient" as a hitter? What happen between his playing days, and his managing days? :-k

 

762 926 (Dusty's career BB:K ratio as a hitter)

 

 

I think you're falsely correlating low K totals with patience. As you said, his walk totals were never anything great. There are tons of hitters that aren't patient that barely strike out, i.e. our (s)crappy leadoff man. On the other hand, some of the most patient hitters have very high strikeout totals (i.e. Dunn).

 

They almost go hand in hand. If you're taking a lot of pitches, you're also taking more strikes.

 

I said "reasonably", I didn't say he was great....but "the dude" did still had an OBP near over .350 10 times in his career, therefore he was semi-patient.

In '68 when Dusty came up the NL OBP was .295. For the main part of his carreer (110 games or more from '72 to '85). The NL averaged a .317 OBP. He also played a good part of his career in Dodger's stadium and has a translated .355 obp; so he definitely showed some patience. Wouldn't someone with an obp .30 points over league average (.327 last yr) look good in a corner outfield spot?

 

But Dusty didn't go up there looking for a walk; unlike our hitters he took it when it was given.

[wvcbxl]

If you buy into the theory that changes won't be made unless it's an off-day, the next one is Monday, June 12.

No, the next one is this Thursday (June 1).

 

[RegulusBlue]

Wouldn't someone with an obp .30 points over league average (.327 last yr) look good in a corner outfield spot?

 

Yes, it already does look good. Murton is at .362 right now, which is just about thirty points above average (.333 IIRC). Thanks for playing.

[LeftCoastCubFan]

Wouldn't someone with an obp .30 points over league average (.327 last yr) look good in a corner outfield spot?

 

Yes, it already does look good. Murton is at .362 right now, which is just about thirty points above average (.333 IIRC). Thanks for playing.

But when a righty is on the mound, Murton is at .318 (.305 slg). That is terrible for a left fielder. Given his youth, he deserves this year to see if he can improve upon it. But if he doesn't, he's likely to end up a platoon or 4th outfielder.