Easy Question

[Wilson A2000]

Stoen on the radio said that there were not any position players Hendry could have gotten in the offseason that were better than Pierre and Jones. I know this has been hashed out, but I thought I'd ask again. Were there?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Stoen on the radio said that there were not any position players Hendry could have gotten in the offseason that were better than Pierre and Jones. I know this has been hashed out, but I thought I'd ask again. Were there?

 

Most definitely. Off the top of my head:

 

Milton Bradley

Coco Crisp

Gary Matthews Jr.

David Dellucci

Brian Giles

[USSoccer]

Well, Giles was a FA. Preston Wilson and Juan Encarnacion were out there. I'm not sure if either are better than Jones, but I'd probably rather have Wilson for 1 yr than Jones for 3.

 

Furcal, obviously was there. Lofton was a FA. Jason Michaels and Coco Crisp were traded.

 

2004/5 was the offseason to spend money, though.

[CubfaninCA]

Yep.

 

Should have done Pie for Bradley or Pie & Hill for Crisp.

 

 

Sarge Jr. already failed as a Cub once TT.

[Outshined_One]

Jason Michaels

Brad Wilkerson

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Corey Patterson

[snoodmonger]

Yep.

 

Should have done Pie for Bradley or Pie & Hill for Crisp.

 

I think you're overpaying in both cases.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Yep.

 

Should have done Pie for Bradley or Pie & Hill for Crisp.

 

I think you're overpaying in both cases.

 

GROSSLY.

[CubfaninCA]

Yep.

 

Should have done Pie for Bradley or Pie & Hill for Crisp.

 

I think you're overpaying in both cases.

 

I wouldn't have done either trade, but that's what it would have cost considering Marte was trade for Crisp and Ethier was dealt for Bradley. Ehtier already has more homers than Murton, 3, in 50 or so AB's.

 

As for Wilkerson, who do the Cubs have that Bowden would value as highly as Soriano?? Ramirez?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pie is a much better prospect than Ethier.

 

 

And the point was to list the good players that were moved to refute Stone's talking point.

[CubfaninCA]

Getting Crisp or Bradley would have cost dearly.

 

The guy the Cubs should have got was Soriano. I wish the Soriano for Murton rumor went through.

[Rusch33]

Getting Crisp or Bradley would have cost dearly.

 

The guy the Cubs should have got was Soriano. I wish the Soriano for Murton rumor went through.

 

 

Probably could have got him at the deadline last year for just Rich Hill if i recall right.

[CuseCubFan69]

Maybe if Hendry had a little vision he wouldn't have painted himself into a corner and had only Jones and Pierre to pick from. Also, IMO Hendry really wanted Pierre.

 

What was Hendry's excuse for getting Bernitz last year? I'm sick of excuses, produce or get out.

[Bruno7481]

Stoen on the radio said that there were not any position players Hendry could have gotten in the offseason that were better than Pierre and Jones. I know this has been hashed out, but I thought I'd ask again. Were there?

 

Most definitely. Off the top of my head:

 

Milton Bradley

Coco Crisp

Gary Matthews Jr.

David Dellucci

Brian Giles

 

Gary Matthews Jr? He's improved his game since he left Chicago, but I think Jones is the better player. I don't think many would be happy if Hendry would have signed GMjr to be the everyday RF. Jacque Jones is hardly the problem with this year's team anyway.

 

No argument with Giles, Crisp, or Milton.

[Mark Priors Calves]

Getting Crisp or Bradley would have cost dearly.

 

Getting Pierre cost dearly too.

[goonys evil twin]

There were better players this past offseason, and, more importantly, there were better options in past offseasons. I'm so sick of people acting like what we are seeing is some new thing that just sprang on this team. Walks have been a problem for years. OBP has been a problem for years. Offense has been a problem for years. OF has been a problem for years.

 

Jim Hendry didn't just get the job. He's not cleaning up another person's mess. This is his team, all of it. He and Baker got what they were looking for. The problem is they don't know how to look for what can fix it.

[goonys evil twin]

Jacque Jones is hardly the problem with this year's team anyway.

 

Why do people try to pretend you can defend any player by saying he is not the problem? Jones is a major part of the problem. His .321 OBP from a corner OF position is a problem. Cubs opponents have an OBP of .338. Jones is therefore worse than the Cubs average opponent at getting on base. There are only 2 teams in the NL with a worse OBP than Jacque Jones, Pittsburgh and the Cubs. Every other team has a higher team OBP. When your corner OF has a worse OBP than the rest of the teams in the league, you are getting poor production from that player. A couple homeruns doesn't change that.

 

OBP is the problem with this team, and Jacque is a major part of that problem.

[RynoRules]

Maybe if Hendry had a little vision he wouldn't have painted himself into a corner and had only Jones and Pierre to pick from. Also, IMO Hendry really wanted Pierre.

 

What was Hendry's excuse for getting Bernitz last year? I'm sick of excuses, produce or get out.

 

That's really the issue, IMO. He has spent much of teh last two years putting himself into horrible bargaining postures and making moves out of desperation.

[Bruno7481]

Jacque Jones is hardly the problem with this year's team anyway.

 

Why do people try to pretend you can defend any player by saying he is not the problem? Jones is a major part of the problem. His .321 OBP from a corner OF position is a problem. Cubs opponents have an OBP of .338. Jones is therefore worse than the Cubs average opponent at getting on base. There are only 2 teams in the NL with a worse OBP than Jacque Jones, Pittsburgh and the Cubs. Every other team has a higher team OBP. When your corner OF has a worse OBP than the rest of the teams in the league, you are getting poor production from that player. A couple homeruns doesn't change that.

 

OBP is the problem with this team, and Jacque is a major part of that problem.

 

I'm not pretending, I didn't want Jones either. In the month of May, a month in which the Cubs have gone 5-16, this has been Jones' line:

 

.313/.353/.500/.853

 

Thats respectable. He's hardly the reason the Cubs have been absolutely awful this month. In fact, he is pretty much the only guy that has been consistently hitting the ball.

 

OBP is a glaring problem, but all doesn't fall on JJ.

[goonys evil twin]

Thats respectable. He's hardly the reason the Cubs have been absolutely awful this month. In fact, he is pretty much the only guy that has been consistently hitting the ball.

 

OBP is a glaring problem, but all doesn't fall on JJ.

 

Again, just because he isn't THE problem doesn't mean he isn't a problem. Jones's OBP is .321. That's bad. He is a problem. Quit sugar coating it and pretending he's isn't a problem.

[Bruno7481]

Thats respectable. He's hardly the reason the Cubs have been absolutely awful this month. In fact, he is pretty much the only guy that has been consistently hitting the ball.

 

OBP is a glaring problem, but all doesn't fall on JJ.

 

Again, just because he isn't THE problem doesn't mean he isn't a problem. Jones's OBP is .321. That's bad. He is a problem. Quit sugar coating it and pretending he's isn't a problem.

 

Sugarcoating? ok...

 

All I did was show the numbers. The outfiled has been terrible. Jones has been the most productive OF though. It's not sugarcoating, its fact. Again, I didn't want him either, I'd be more than happy with someone else in RF. But he's been better than Murton and Pierre, but thats not saying very much.

[goonys evil twin]

Thats respectable. He's hardly the reason the Cubs have been absolutely awful this month. In fact, he is pretty much the only guy that has been consistently hitting the ball.

 

OBP is a glaring problem, but all doesn't fall on JJ.

 

Again, just because he isn't THE problem doesn't mean he isn't a problem. Jones's OBP is .321. That's bad. He is a problem. Quit sugar coating it and pretending he's isn't a problem.

 

Sugarcoating? ok...

 

All I did was show the numbers. The outfiled has been terrible. Jones has been the most productive OF though. It's not sugarcoating, its fact. Again, I didn't want him either, I'd be more than happy with someone else in RF. But he's been better than Murton and Pierre, but thats not saying very much.

 

You didn't show the numbers, you showed part of the numbers that made him look the best. For the season, he has a .321 OBP. OBP is more important than SLG. OBP is the Cubs main offensive problem. Jacque Jones has a bad OBP. Jacque Jones is part of the problem. That is all that needs to be said.

[Bruno7481]

Thats respectable. He's hardly the reason the Cubs have been absolutely awful this month. In fact, he is pretty much the only guy that has been consistently hitting the ball.

 

OBP is a glaring problem, but all doesn't fall on JJ.

 

Again, just because he isn't THE problem doesn't mean he isn't a problem. Jones's OBP is .321. That's bad. He is a problem. Quit sugar coating it and pretending he's isn't a problem.

 

Sugarcoating? ok...

 

All I did was show the numbers. The outfiled has been terrible. Jones has been the most productive OF though. It's not sugarcoating, its fact. Again, I didn't want him either, I'd be more than happy with someone else in RF. But he's been better than Murton and Pierre, but thats not saying very much.

 

You didn't show the numbers, you showed part of the numbers that made him look the best. For the season, he has a .321 OBP. OBP is more important than SLG. OBP is the Cubs main offensive problem. Jacque Jones has a bad OBP. Jacque Jones is part of the problem. That is all that needs to be said.

 

So is Matt Murton, Juan Pierre, Aramis Ramirez, on and on and on. Why single out Jones? Everyone has pretty much been terrible.

 

I'm not arguing that OBP isn't a problem. But it is a team problem with the exception of a few guys, not just a Jacque Jones problem.

 

I chose to show Jones' number for May because that just happens to coincide with when the Cubs went into the crapper. This month Jones has been pretty much the only consistent hitter on the team. The team is dreadful all around.

[Banedon]

So is Matt Murton, Juan Pierre, Aramis Ramirez, on and on and on. Why single out Jones? Everyone has pretty much been terrible.

 

Because he has a 3 year contract...he's underperforming, as is Pierre. Pierre has gotten plenty of criticism. Aramis has a history of performing well, so he's gotten a bit more slack. And Murton is essentially a rookie...an uneven season was expected.

[Bruno7481]

So is Matt Murton, Juan Pierre, Aramis Ramirez, on and on and on. Why single out Jones? Everyone has pretty much been terrible.

 

Because he has a 3 year contract...he's underperforming, as is Pierre. Pierre has gotten plenty of criticism. Aramis has a history of performing well, so he's gotten a bit more slack. And Murton is essentially a rookie...an uneven season was expected.

 

I've never understood this, JJ didin't put a gun to Hendry's head. He was given a 3 year deal, no idea how, but he got it. So Jacque is pretty much putting up numbers that he usually does. Blame Hendry. JJ is just doing what he has always done.