Who Stays / Who Goes (Players)

[BeerHere]

I have a hard time coming up with any list of keepers but here goes (25 man roster):

 

Potential keepers:

Murton

Cedeno

Lee

Marshall

Zambrano

Barrett

Pagan

Eyre

Howry

Dempster

Maddux

 

Absolutely must go:

Perez

Bynum

Pierre

Jones

Walker

Ramirez

Mabry

Blanco

 

Non-Decided:

Wood

Prior

Hill

Guzman

Theriot

 

 

Discuss

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

I have a hard time coming up with any list of keepers but here goes (25 man roster):

 

Potential keepers:

Murton

Cedeno

Lee

Marshall

Zambrano

Barrett

Pagan

Eyre

Howry

Dempster

Maddux

 

Absolutely must go:

Perez

Bynum

Pierre

Jones

Walker

Ramirez

Mabry

Blanco

 

Non-Decided:

Wood

Prior

Hill

Guzman

Theriot

 

 

Discuss

 

Bold = your crazy!

[LoneStarCubFan]

Of the guys currently on the 25-man roster the only untouchables should be Zambrano and Ramirez, and possibly Dempster.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Ramirez is not untouchable, if a reasonable replacement can be found. He has the ability to opt out of his contract after this season, and he is one of the more valuable trading chips we have right now. I wouldn't look to deal him, but I would certainly listen to any offers that came in.

 

I stated before this season that the only untouchables I saw on this team were Zambrano and Prior (when we thought he was healthy). I have revisited that stance, and I now see nobody as untouchable. Once again, I wouldn't actively shop some of them, but I would listen to offers.

[BeerHere]

Ramirez is not untouchable, if a reasonable replacement can be found. He has the ability to opt out of his contract after this season, and he is one of the more valuable trading chips we have right now. I wouldn't look to deal him, but I would certainly listen to any offers that came in.

 

I stated before this season that the only untouchables I saw on this team were Zambrano and Prior (when we thought he was healthy). I have revisited that stance, and I now see nobody as untouchable. Once again, I wouldn't actively shop some of them, but I would listen to offers.

 

Agreed. On a team this bad there should be very few untouchables. If a replacement can be found for Ramirez and the offer is good enough, he should be shipped in a heartbeat.

 

Wood may become a valuable trading chip as well if he comes back to form before the break.

[badger1679666666]

Wood may become a valuable trading chip as well if he comes back to form before the break.

 

 

NTC

[soapy]

Bolded names are the ones different from yours, BeerHere:

 

Keepers:

Murton

Cedeno

Lee

Zambrano

Barrett

Eyre

Howry

Dempster

Marshall

Ramirez

Guzman

Prior

 

Absolutely must go:

Perez

Bynum

Pierre

Jones

Mabry

Blanco

 

Non-Decided:

Wood

Hill

Theriot

Maddux

Walker

Pagan

 

I would probably only label Zambrano as "untouchable".

[Caryatid]

I don't believe in the concept of "untouchables." If you can get an offer of a better player for one that you have, regardless of your feelings for that player, you should make the deal. The only player I think the Cubs CANNOT get equal value for, regardless of the deal, is Lee. Therefore, everyone else is fair game.

 

One of the reasons the A's are still contending is because they didn't consider Mulder and Hudson untouchable.

[Bergy92]

I don't believe in the concept of "untouchables." If you can get an offer of a better player for one that you have, regardless of your feelings for that player, you should make the deal. The only player I think the Cubs CANNOT get equal value for, regardless of the deal, is Lee. Therefore, everyone else is fair game.

 

One of the reasons the A's are still contending is because they didn't consider Mulder and Hudson untouchable.

 

It would be hard to disagree with Lee being an untouchable after what we are currently going through after he went down.

[CubfaninCA]

Keepers - Lee, Z, Marshall & Dempster

 

Anyone else can go for the right price.

[A New Era]

I think you keep any of the youngsters and are performing and vets that are performing up to their talent levels.

 

Marshall

Cedeno

and Murton are all performing and would be well outproducing their salaries, allowing more money to be spent on bigger bats.

 

Lee, Dempster, Eyre, Howry, those are the types you want to keep.

 

Ramirez, Barret, Pierre, Jones, Walker. Those are all positions you want to improve upon. I for one wouldn't mind having a catcher that can throw out runners at a sacrafice of offensive production. Or having a 2B that is both good offense AND defense. Listen to offers for any of those players. All the other JUNK like Rusch, Neifi, ect we don't need either.

[Backtobanks]

Ramirez is not untouchable, if a reasonable replacement can be found. He has the ability to opt out of his contract after this season, and he is one of the more valuable trading chips we have right now. I wouldn't look to deal him, but I would certainly listen to any offers that came in.

 

I stated before this season that the only untouchables I saw on this team were Zambrano and Prior (when we thought he was healthy). I have revisited that stance, and I now see nobody as untouchable. Once again, I wouldn't actively shop some of them, but I would listen to offers.

 

I don't think Ramirez is untouchable, but about the only way I would trade him is for Cabrera, ARod, or Blalock. The Cubs had a black hole at 3B for decades, so I'm not to quick on the Trade-Ramirez Bandwagon. I really think his problems stem from having to be "THE MAN" while Lee is out. I think ARam is more comfortable playing under-the-radar while others (Lee, Sosa, etc.) are the stars.

[TheDude]

I don't know about putting names on lists, but I would try to change the dynamics of the team on the field. I love Murton and Cedeno, but both offer alternatives to the current baseball preferred environment. And as such, inclusion of them makes Jones a poor choice and Pierre a weaker choice.

 

Murton doesn't have the power to be a classic LF. He has excellent value in a lineup, but value you traditionally want at the 2B, SS, or CF position. Cedeno is a classic NL SS for old school baseball, where excellent defense is the prime consideration, and any offense is gravy.

 

As such, the production for inclusion of those two young, bright players requires offsetting elsewhere in the field. The Cubs RF needs to be a stud 4/5-hole power answer. The Cubs have excess power at 2B and C to make-up for either Cedeno or Murton, but not both, so the compensation has come from a prime power hitting corner. The alternaive to no stud RF is a power hitting CF, which is where Pierre becomes a poor choice given the overall dynamic. Compensation has to come somewhere for Murton's and Cedeno's lack of power production.

 

So for folks to keep Murton and Cedeno in the rebuild of the core of this team, the lineup has to look something like this:

 

LF/SS Murton/Cedeno

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B/RF Ramirez/[insert stud]

3B/RF Ramirez/[insert stud]

CF [insert mid-power CF]

C Barret

LF/SS - Murton/Cedeno

 

The idea that everyone needs to go is excessive. The core is still very solid.

 

I have zero issues with most of the pitching names. Rusch is my only gripe. The performance overall is sub-par, but not the talent, and with a solid pitching coach, the Cubs staff has potential with the current names (minus Rusch) to be best in the NL.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't know about putting names on lists, but I would try to change the dynamics of the team on the field. I love Murton and Cedeno, but both offer alternatives to the current baseball preferred environment. And as such, inclusion of them makes Jones a poor choice and Pierre a weaker choice.

 

Murton doesn't have the power to be a classic LF. He has excellent value in a lineup, but value you traditionally want at the 2B, SS, or CF position. Cedeno is a classic NL SS for old school baseball, where excellent defense is the prime consideration, and any offense is gravy.

 

As such, the production for inclusion of those two young, bright players requires offsetting elsewhere in the field. The Cubs RF needs to be a stud 4/5-hole power answer. The Cubs have excess power at 2B and C to make-up for either Cedeno or Murton, but not both, so the compensation has come from a prime power hitting corner. The alternaive to no stud RF is a power hitting CF, which is where Pierre becomes a poor choice given the overall dynamic. Compensation has to come somewhere for Murton's and Cedeno's lack of power production.

 

So for folks to keep Murton and Cedeno in the rebuild of the core of this team, the lineup has to look something like this:

 

LF/SS Murton/Cedeno

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B/RF Ramirez/[insert stud]

3B/RF Ramirez/[insert stud]

CF [insert mid-power CF]

C Barret

LF/SS - Murton/Cedeno

 

The idea that everyone needs to go is excessive. The core is still very solid.

 

I have zero issues with most of the pitching names. Rusch is my only gripe. The performance overall is sub-par, but not the talent, and with a solid pitching coach, the Cubs staff has potential with the current names (minus Rusch) to be best in the NL.

 

Outstanding.

[BigbadB]

Agreed. That was a pretty good post. The only thing I might argue is that it might take one of Murton or Cedeno included in a deal with pitching in order to lock down that stud RF. If that's the case, then they need a replacement player that can provide more offense than either is capable of.

 

I really like Murton, but because he's an outfielder, he's much more sacrificial than Cedeno.

 

Can't say "The Dude" and I have agreed on much, but I do agree with his post.

[USSoccer]

I don't trade Ramirez unless he's opting out and definetly not coming back after 2006, or unless we get a fantastic return. His numbers thus far are an anomaly. He's still going to be a very good-great player.

[cubs121]

I have a hard time coming up with any list of keepers but here goes (25 man roster):

 

Potential keepers:

Murton

Cedeno

Lee

Marshall

Zambrano

Barrett

Pagan

Eyre

Howry

Dempster

Maddux

 

Absolutely must go:

Perez

Bynum

Pierre

Jones

Walker

Ramirez

Mabry

Blanco

 

Non-Decided:

Wood

Prior

Hill

Guzman

Theriot

 

 

Discuss

 

PLEASE RETHINK THIS!

[sunnydoo]

The People that should go are:

 

Pierre- Pie will be ready by next season

Bynum- no explanation really needed

ARamirez- .806 OPS lifetime and no durability (only 3 seasons 140+ games)

Kerry Wood- cant justify spending $10M on someone who is injured all the time

Blanco- an absolute disgrace

Maddux- had a great career, but it is time to let it go

Hairston- not worth the money it will take to bring him back

Murton/Jones- one of the 2 needs to go for power/OPS

Rusch- terrible career. had one great season as a Cub. bad investment.

 

Thats 1/3rd of the team, a pretty good start.

[marc_foust]

I dont think that we need to start disbanding this team's core. The problem is that Hendry/Baker tried to change the core by adding two supposed "small ball" players. We only have 2 maybe 3 real power threats on this team, Lee, Aram and maybe Barrett, we then have two contact hitters, Walker and Murton, and finally a question mark hitter in Cedeno. Then management decides that by adding Pierre we are now a small ball team. But our core has for the better part of a decade been built around pitching and the long ball. Pierre was in theory a good addition. The problem was not that we added Jones who is a solid player on paper, but that he didnt fill the need that we had, which was/is a five hole hitter with power. Our pitching can be solid if 2/3 of Prior, Wood, Miller stay healthy and picth to their capablities. Our BP is already a strength for us. You cant change an entire team by adding one of top lead off hitters in the game, and then adding more or less a role player in Jones. Baker says he wants to play small ball but still does not understand the importance of taking walks, hit and run, sac bunting, situational hitting, etc. You cant change your team philosiphy without changing your plate philosiphy.

 

But if at the deadline if we can make a move for a power bat I think that we can be a somewhat complete team. Pierre appears to be turning it on and Wood makes his first start back tonight with Prior and Miller due back in the coming weeks. Getting Lee back will be huge. And another addition for the likes Jones(with chunk of salary paid), pay for them to take Glendon Rusch, Wuertz/Nova, and maybe Hill, could steal a bat from a small market team.

 

Then a lineup of

Pierre

Walker

Lee

ARam

Big Bat

Barrett

Murton

Cedeno

 

And a Pitcher staff of

Z

Prior/Wood/Miller

Miller/Wood/Prior

Marshall

Maddux

 

Ohman

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

Dempster

Novoa/Wuertz/Ryu/Aardsma

Long man:Rusch

 

Looks like a major league lineup. But we will still not be a small ball team. Thats not neccesarilly a bad thing though. Then in the offseason we could look to upgrade at perhaps second and maybe add a more consitent arm to the BP than Wuertz/Novoa and improve the bench by adding that RH power hitting option we want. Also very importamt tp find someone to take Rusch.

[Fro]

Actually, we really just need a guy who eats lefties for breakfast to platoon with Jones.

 

Jones' production against righties is very adequate (.319/.351/.922)

 

Ideally, said platoon player would also provide right-handed pop off the bench, could play 1B, and would be a good option to be the DH in interleague games. Craig Wilson would be a great example.

[NCCubFan]

Neifi must go IMMEDIATELY. Bunting with two outs when he represented the winning run is inexcusable. If it was actually called from the bench, Dusty must be fired TODAY.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think the Cubs should trade Lee, Barrett and Murton to complete the dynasty. Then, sign really good free agents like Jones so they can lose their first round pick.

[CubfaninCA]

if the cubs continue to really struggle, they should shop ramirez. yes, he can be quite productive, but he's also quite injury prone & expensive.

 

I wonder what the Yankees or Angels would be willing to trade for him. The Yankees could dh him and Anaheim could use him @ 3b.

[Monco]

if the cubs continue to really struggle, they should shop ramirez. yes, he can be quite productive, but he's also quite injury prone & expensive.

 

I wonder what the Yankees or Angels would be willing to trade for him. The Yankees could dh him and Anaheim could use him @ 3b.

I doubt the Yankees have anything in the minors.The Angels have quite a few prospects Mc Pherson,Kendrick, Wood.

[Shavo]

I don't know about putting names on lists, but I would try to change the dynamics of the team on the field. I love Murton and Cedeno, but both offer alternatives to the current baseball preferred environment. And as such, inclusion of them makes Jones a poor choice and Pierre a weaker choice.

 

Murton doesn't have the power to be a classic LF. He has excellent value in a lineup, but value you traditionally want at the 2B, SS, or CF position. Cedeno is a classic NL SS for old school baseball, where excellent defense is the prime consideration, and any offense is gravy.

 

As such, the production for inclusion of those two young, bright players requires offsetting elsewhere in the field. The Cubs RF needs to be a stud 4/5-hole power answer. The Cubs have excess power at 2B and C to make-up for either Cedeno or Murton, but not both, so the compensation has come from a prime power hitting corner. The alternaive to no stud RF is a power hitting CF, which is where Pierre becomes a poor choice given the overall dynamic. Compensation has to come somewhere for Murton's and Cedeno's lack of power production.

 

So for folks to keep Murton and Cedeno in the rebuild of the core of this team, the lineup has to look something like this:

 

LF/SS Murton/Cedeno

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B/RF Ramirez/[insert stud]

3B/RF Ramirez/[insert stud]

CF [insert mid-power CF]

C Barret

LF/SS - Murton/Cedeno

 

The idea that everyone needs to go is excessive. The core is still very solid.

 

I have zero issues with most of the pitching names. Rusch is my only gripe. The performance overall is sub-par, but not the talent, and with a solid pitching coach, the Cubs staff has potential with the current names (minus Rusch) to be best in the NL.

 

 

Walker

Murton

D. Lee

C. Lee

Ramirez

Barret

Pie

Cedeno

 

This could be the team next year. This would be a huge offensive improvement, while keeping the rotation in tact ...

 

Zambrano

Wood

Prior

Marshall

Miller/Guzman/Hill/Williams.

 

Get rid of Rusch, Blanco, Bynum, and Neifi (if possible). If one of those has to stay, fine. ONE of those.