Bruce's Take

[XZero771679666304]

And just because it can't be sourced doesn't mean it isn't true. All signs point to the idea that Giles never had any real intention of leaving.

 

All signs point to the idea that Hendry didn't even try to convince him otherwise.

 

Honestly, I don't think it would have made a difference. The man didn't want to leave, as evidenced by the small amount he took to stay in SD. People can talk about how we don't know for sure, but what we do know is that there was a market for him, he was by far the best corner OF on said market, and he signed for way under market value. You don't need slide rule to figure out the Giles wasn't leaving SoCal unless he wasn't offered any kind of contract there.

 

I'm not defending Hendry, but realistically Giles wasn't coming to Chicago.

 

Is it disappointing he didn't try? Sure it is, but only because it demonstrates the flawed philosophy he has more than a far fetched notion that Giles could be the Cubs RF right now.

[CubfaninCA]

now getting Soriano would have given this team a lift, but that flies in the face of moneyball.

 

What would have been the lift? Walker would have sat, and probably would have been more likely to not even be here. Soriano's numbers replacing Walker's numbers doesn't make this team any better.

 

since we're playing fantasyball, they could have put him in rf.

 

i really like murton, but since we're just talking about this year, soriano's .862 ops & 9 homers helps more than murton's 2 homer & .791 ops. the cubs need another guy who can hit the longball. lets remember that sori plays in a pitcher's park too.

[XZero771679666304]

And just because it can't be sourced doesn't mean it isn't true. All signs point to the idea that Giles never had any real intention of leaving.

 

If that's the case, can you please provide your explanation of why he became a free agent in the first place? If he was so adamant about staying, why did he file for free agency?

 

Ummm, to try and get more money?

[LoneStarCubFan]

And just because it can't be sourced doesn't mean it isn't true. All signs point to the idea that Giles never had any real intention of leaving.

 

If that's the case, can you please provide your explanation of why he became a free agent in the first place? If he was so adamant about staying, why did he file for free agency?

 

Oh please, surely you aren't that naive. He filed for free agency to squeeze as much money out of San Diego as possible. Surely you're smart enough to understand that.

[soapy]

now getting Soriano would have given this team a lift, but that flies in the face of moneyball.

 

What would have been the lift? Walker would have sat, and probably would have been more likely to not even be here. Soriano's numbers replacing Walker's numbers doesn't make this team any better.

 

Not to mention, if Soriano had been brought in, I'd have to think Walker would have been traded (maybe even as part of a Soriano deal). Walker's and Soriano's numbers are pretty similar this year. I fail to see how replacing Walker's numbers with Soriano's makes this team any better.

[BigbadB]

And just because it can't be sourced doesn't mean it isn't true. All signs point to the idea that Giles never had any real intention of leaving.

 

If that's the case, can you please provide your explanation of why he became a free agent in the first place? If he was so adamant about staying, why did he file for free agency?

 

Oh please, surely you aren't that naive. He filed for free agency to squeeze as much money out of San Diego as possible. Surely you're smart enough to understand that.

 

I'm also smart enough to realize that players will go where the money is. Why is Brian Giles the exception? Why did Nomar re-up with the Cubs in 2005? He's a California boy too.

 

To say he never would have went elsewhere because he loved San Diego is naive. Jacque Jones is a San Diego native. Why did he come here? San Diego was interested in him also.

 

You can apply this same theory to every free agent. Why did they go where they went? For the money. Why did Brian Giles sign that big contract with the Pirates initially if he was so enthralled with playing in San Diego?

[CubfaninCA]

I don't know, the fact that Giles returned to SD even though 3 of the most successful franchises in baseball history were suiting him (NY, LA and STL) is pretty strong evidence that Giles wanted to remain a Padre. *shrug*

[BigbadB]

Bottom line: Giles didn't receive the offers that made it worth his while to leave San Diego. San Diego upped their offer prior to the arbitration deadline and he stayed.

 

Chicago didn't make any offers. Hendry was only interested in signing Furcal. He was so interested in Furcal, that he basically spat upon Nomar.

[CubfaninCA]

Btw giles isn't exactly tearing it up with his .357 slugging %. the cubs have enough guys who rarely hit the ball out of the park.

[RynoRules]

I don't know, the fact that Giles returned to SD even though 3 of the most successful franchises in baseball history were suiting him (NY, LA and STL) is pretty strong evidence that Giles wanted to remain a Padre. *shrug*

 

This debate is old, but its pretty clear that Giles leveraged the threat of free agency only to squeeze more cash out of SD. Re the longterm contract with Pitt, perhaps SD already had their OF set at that point. What year was that and who was in SD's OF?

[Banedon]

Btw giles isn't exactly tearing it up with his .357 slugging %. the cubs have enough guys who rarely hit the ball out of the park.

 

While you're looking up stats, why don't you check his OBP?

[BigbadB]

Btw giles isn't exactly tearing it up with his .357 slugging %. the cubs have enough guys who rarely hit the ball out of the park.

 

And Petco Park is one of the worst hitting parks in baseball. Couple in LA, San Fran and Arizona and you have one of the worst hitting divisions in baseball, even with Colorado in the mix. His SLG dropped when he moved to the NL West. I don't think it would be nearly as bad if he was playing the NL Central, one of the best hitting divisions in baseball.

 

What's Giles' OBP right now? SLG isn't the only part of his game.

[CubfaninCA]

now getting Soriano would have given this team a lift, but that flies in the face of moneyball.

 

What would have been the lift? Walker would have sat, and probably would have been more likely to not even be here. Soriano's numbers replacing Walker's numbers doesn't make this team any better.

 

Not to mention, if Soriano had been brought in, I'd have to think Walker would have been traded (maybe even as part of a Soriano deal). Walker's and Soriano's numbers are pretty similar this year. I fail to see how replacing Walker's numbers with Soriano's makes this team any better.

 

there was a rumor of murton for soriano, which got shot down by many here.

 

the problem w/ improving for this year is that the cubs have to sacrifice for the future. good players just don't fall into a teams lap, and you need lots of things to go right to be successful in any season. unfortunately, the cubs have about a third of their budget out already. they have 3 starting pitchers out (yeah I'm counting Jerome Williams, who many of us were high on), and one of the best hitters in the game's out.

 

any reasonable cub fan should have known the first month would be rough, as we waited for prior and wood to return. lee's injury compounded the difficulty to compete.

[goonys evil twin]

any reasonable cub fan should have known the first month would be rough, as we waited for prior and wood to return. lee's injury compounded the difficulty to compete.

 

I consider myself to be a reasonable Cubs fan and I refuse to believe this first month 5 weeks had to be as painful as they've been, with or without Lee. Hendry failed to improve the offense, which was in desperate need of improvement. He focused on secondary concerns, like speed and ball catching ability, and ignored the single biggest problem on the team. His insistence of finding stereotypical guys for certain spots ultimately hurt the team.

[BigbadB]

any reasonable cub fan should have known the first month would be rough

 

Some reasonable Cub fans felt like Hendry didn't do enough to make this a better team in the offseason, and the current results shouldn't be excusable considering how poorly he did.

[CubfaninCA]

I don't know, the fact that Giles returned to SD even though 3 of the most successful franchises in baseball history were suiting him (NY, LA and STL) is pretty strong evidence that Giles wanted to remain a Padre. *shrug*

 

This debate is old, but its pretty clear that Giles leveraged the threat of free agency only to squeeze more cash out of SD. Re the longterm contract with Pitt, perhaps SD already had their OF set at that point. What year was that and who was in SD's OF?

 

was gwynn still there?? also, giles numbers weren't that great prior to the pitt contract.

 

The point I was trying to make is that there weren't many cf and rf solutions. Maybe there were a few superior SS and LF alternatives, but then the future had to be sacrificed.

 

the complaining is getting a little carried away.

[Banedon]

the complaining is getting a little carried away.

 

Yeah...I don't know why people would complain after losing 6 straight games. Clearly Baker and Hendry have the NL right where they want them.

[soapy]

now getting Soriano would have given this team a lift, but that flies in the face of moneyball.

 

What would have been the lift? Walker would have sat, and probably would have been more likely to not even be here. Soriano's numbers replacing Walker's numbers doesn't make this team any better.

 

Not to mention, if Soriano had been brought in, I'd have to think Walker would have been traded (maybe even as part of a Soriano deal). Walker's and Soriano's numbers are pretty similar this year. I fail to see how replacing Walker's numbers with Soriano's makes this team any better.

 

there was a rumor of murton for soriano, which got shot down by many here.

 

the problem w/ improving for this year is that the cubs have to sacrifice for the future. good players just don't fall into a teams lap, and you need lots of things to go right to be successful in any season. unfortunately, the cubs have about a third of their budget out already. they have 3 starting pitchers out (yeah I'm counting Jerome Williams, who many of us were high on), and one of the best hitters in the game's out.

 

any reasonable cub fan should have known the first month would be rough, as we waited for prior and wood to return. lee's injury compounded the difficulty to compete.

 

Yeah, I remember that now. I would be against that trade, even now. I really think Murton will greatly outproduce Soriano in the near future.

[CubfaninCA]

bbb and gooney, i'm still waiting for a reasonable alternative.

 

i guess you can argue for prior for tejada. not sure what else.

[BigbadB]

So, we should expect Marcus Giles to sign with San Diego when he becomes a free agent, I suppose. We probably shouldn't even bother attempting to sign him either.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Btw giles isn't exactly tearing it up with his .357 slugging %. the cubs have enough guys who rarely hit the ball out of the park.

 

While you're looking up stats, why don't you check his OBP?

 

OBP is about the ONLY thing right now, Giles is good for. With his OBP hovering around .400 he SHOULD have more then 17 runs (in 31 games). Now you can't fault him for ONLY scoring 17 runs, you can fault those guys hitting behind him, but the proof is in the pudding. That OBP is an empty .400. At this stage of his career, if he can't slug around .450, then Giles should be a 2 hitter in the lineup. And for slightly under $8 mill per, Giles is so overpaid.

 

Dare I say...Giles would have a BIGGER impact with St. Louis then he would in San Diego. :evil:

[Banedon]

bbb and gooney, i'm still waiting for a reasonable alternative.

 

i guess you can argue for prior for tejada. not sure what else.

 

How about re-signing Burnitz for 1 year instead of Jones for 3?

 

I think there was a lot of talk about Austin Kearns being available before the season.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm not bbb or gooney, but Reggie Sanders for a season?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Btw giles isn't exactly tearing it up with his .357 slugging %. the cubs have enough guys who rarely hit the ball out of the park.

 

While you're looking up stats, why don't you check his OBP?

 

OBP is about the ONLY thing right now, Giles is good for. With his OBP hovering around .400 he SHOULD have more then 17 runs (in 31 games). Now you can't fault him for ONLY scoring 17 runs, you can fault those guys hitting behind him, but the proof is in the pudding. That OBP is an empty .400. At this stage of his career, if he can't slug around .450, then Giles should be a 2 hitter in the lineup. And for slightly under $8 mill per, Giles is so overpaid.

 

Dare I say...Giles would have a BIGGER impact with St. Louis then he would in San Diego. :evil:

 

An empty .400? He's in an offense that has been terrible, he's the only one with an OBP over .340. And that 17 figure is second on the team to Barfield's 18.

 

Also, Giles' 3 year splits('03-'05) for April: .221/.372/.405/.777

[LoneStarCubFan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Nomar on the DL already?