An Amazing Lack of discipline

[moorecg]

We are very close to being on the recieving end of the 2nd complete game shutout in 3 days.

 

Assuming a pretty efficient inning (which is an easy assumption with our offense) this one will also happen with the opposing starter throwing less than 100 pitches.

 

Exactly how much longer must we put up with this? I like Sarge as a person...he gave my son a baseball at a Cubs/Cards game last year...but how on earth can a team continue on this path of offensive futility? This is the 3rd or 4th year in a row where we see dramatically fewer pitches than our opposition...Our hitters record well more than our fare share of one pitch outs...Neifi made a 2 pitch out as I typed this....

 

Why isn't there more uproar for the Batting Coache's proverbial head? this is pathetic.

[moorecg]

As if to emphasize my point...this was both Capuano and Duke's first complete game shutout...its not like we're facing Bob Gibson and Cy Young.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Clines is the hitting coach, and I'm calling for his head.

[goonys evil twin]

We are very close to being on the recieving end of the 2nd complete game shutout in 3 days.

 

Assuming a pretty efficient inning (which is an easy assumption with our offense) this one will also happen with the opposing starter throwing less than 100 pitches.

 

Exactly how much longer must we put up with this? I like Sarge as a person...he gave my son a baseball at a Cubs/Cards game last year...but how on earth can a team continue on this path of offensive futility? This is the 3rd or 4th year in a row where we see dramatically fewer pitches than our opposition...Our hitters record well more than our fare share of one pitch outs...Neifi made a 2 pitch out as I typed this....

 

Why isn't there more uproar for the Batting Coache's proverbial head? this is pathetic.

 

Sarge lost that job, but inexplicably stayed on. Now it's Clines' problem.

 

 

They won't lose their jobs over this issue until the powers that be see it as an issue that needs to be dealt with. Plate discipline is a foreign concept to the Cubs front office, unless you consider plate discipline to be the discipline to swing at anything remotely close to the plate. It's an organizational problem, not just a single coach problem.

 

 

 

Please don't take this as a sign that I like Clines and want him to stay aboard.

[moorecg]

Clines is the hitting coach, and I'm calling for his head.

 

I knew that. Just typed it wrong. I want them both to roll.

[UMFan83]

The entire organization talks about being agressive and not taking walks. It wouldn't matter if we fired him, they would just hire someone else to tell players that walks are bad.

 

It's a widely flawed organizational philosophy that you either have to live with or switch teams.

[soccer10k]

As UMFan said, this does seem like more of an organizational problem than a problem with the philosophy of the hitting coach.

[moorecg]

It's a widely flawed organizational philosophy that you either have to live with or switch teams.

 

I can't accept that....there must be another way...

[goonys evil twin]

It's a widely flawed organizational philosophy that you either have to live with or switch teams.

 

I can't accept that....there must be another way...

 

You could buy the team and force the change yourself. Or, you could stay a fan but just vent your frustration with the stupid philosophy whenever you get a chance.

 

 

Guess which plan I've used.

[moorecg]

What about revisting the "shawon-o-meter" but with pitch counts instead. (I'm not a Chicgo native...and only go to about 2 games a year at wrigley, so this is just an idea, not something I could ever hope to implement)...

 

Have a double sided board....one with our pitch count...one with the opposing teams...or just keep track of the number of 2 or fewer pitch at bats...something to draw attention to this fact.

 

Bruce...could you write an article? Maybe leave a few "complimentary" copies scattered accross the Cubs locker room and in Hendry's suite?

 

Anything...please.

[UMFan83]

It's a widely flawed organizational philosophy that you either have to live with or switch teams.

 

I can't accept that....there must be another way...

 

You could buy the team and force the change yourself. Or, you could stay a fan but just vent your frustration with the stupid philosophy whenever you get a chance.

 

 

Guess which plan I've used.

 

Apathy helps ease the pain too.

[gflore34]

What's so baffling is the fact that runs are directly proportional to the number of baserunners. Or in other words walks lead to baserunners, baserunners lead to runs therefore, the greater the number of baserunners the greater are the chances to score. Pretty simple equation really.

[jjgman21]

my first post ever on NSBB was an attempt to start the "FireSarge Bandwagon." it didn't pick up any steam, but he was fired at the end of the year, only to be "replaced" by Clines, who is probably worse.

 

let's face it though, Sarge, Clines and Baker are all hitting coaches on this team. I just wish Sarge and Baker would teach these guys to be like they were as players. why they all preach over-aggressiveness when they both attained success by being patient hitters is beyond me.

[gflore34]

my first post ever on NSBB was an attempt to start the "FireSarge Bandwagon." it didn't pick up any steam, but he was fired at the end of the year, only to be "replaced" by Clines, who is probably worse.

 

let's face it though, Sarge, Clines and Baker are all hitting coaches on this team. I just wish Sarge and Baker would teach these guys to be like they were as players. why they all preach over-aggressiveness when they both attained success by being patient hitters is beyond me.

 

The ironic point is the Sarge was amongst the league leaders in BB during the '84 season so, I'm guessing he knows the value of taking a pitch or two.

[CubinNY]

This has been going on for three years now. They are a hacking mass.

 

I really don't want to hear anyone blame Lee's absence as the cause of all this either. One guy should not make that much of a difference in terms of runs scored. If he does, the team is not very good.

[Hacking Out Machine]

I'm wrestling with the fact that I in no way admire the team I root for, or at least I don't admire the way they make decisions, from the top down. Jim Hendry has a lot of great attributes, i.e., his honesty and integrity, and he has made some good trades, but so much of what this organization does is directly contrary to what I for one believe makes sense. I sense that this is the case with a lot of others on the site as well.

 

Does a person continue to blindly follow an organization that employs methods and values players that clearly won't result in success? The alternative would be to find a team that you do "admire" and start rooting for them. Unfortunately, I'm a Cubs fan, and I always will be. Maybe I'll just start betting against them every day, then at least I'll get a few bucks for my trouble.

[moorecg]

I'm wrestling with the fact that I in no way admire the team I root for, or at least I don't admire the way they make decisions, from the top down. Jim Hendry has a lot of great attributes, i.e., his honesty and integrity, and he has made some good trades, but so much of what this organization does is directly contrary to what I for one believe makes sense. I sense that this is the case with a lot of others on the site as well.

 

Does a person continue to blindly follow an organization that employs methods and values players that clearly won't result in success? The alternative would be to find a team that you do "admire" and start rooting for them. Unfortunately, I'm a Cubs fan, and I always will be. Maybe I'll just start betting against them every day, then at least I'll get a few bucks for my trouble.

 

A man with a plan.

 

If we all did this, fairly quickly we could run up enough to buy the Cubs, then implement Goony's strategy of buying the team and changing from within....

[goonys evil twin]

Does a person continue to blindly follow an organization that employs methods and values players that clearly won't result in success? The alternative would be to find a team that you do "admire" and start rooting for them.

 

I wouldn't say that's the alternative. The most realistic alternative is to follow them, but not blindly.

 

I find it very difficult to just start rooting for a team I have no emotional investment in.

[moorecg]

Does a person continue to blindly follow an organization that employs methods and values players that clearly won't result in success? The alternative would be to find a team that you do "admire" and start rooting for them.

 

I wouldn't say that's the alternative. The most realistic alternative is to follow them, but not blindly.

 

I find it very difficult to just start rooting for a team I have no emotional investment in.

 

I think if I lived in any city other than St. Louis I could "adopt" the hometown team as my "second" team and root for that team as well as the Cubs...alas, rooting for the cards would be like rooting for Clubber Lang in Rocky...you hate them...they aren't nice...you dont' like their fans...but deep down you know they're probably going to do all the right things to kick your arse. (I hope arse fits within the family board guidelines)

[goonys evil twin]

Does a person continue to blindly follow an organization that employs methods and values players that clearly won't result in success? The alternative would be to find a team that you do "admire" and start rooting for them.

 

I wouldn't say that's the alternative. The most realistic alternative is to follow them, but not blindly.

 

I find it very difficult to just start rooting for a team I have no emotional investment in.

 

I think if I lived in any city other than St. Louis I could "adopt" the hometown team as my "second" team and root for that team as well as the Cubs...alas, rooting for the cards would be like rooting for Clubber Lang in Rocky...you hate them...they aren't nice...you dont' like their fans...but deep down you know they're probably going to do all the right things to kick your arse. (I hope arse fits within the family board guidelines)

 

I've lived in NY over a decade and still haven't come close to such an adoption.

[moorecg]

Does a person continue to blindly follow an organization that employs methods and values players that clearly won't result in success? The alternative would be to find a team that you do "admire" and start rooting for them.

 

I wouldn't say that's the alternative. The most realistic alternative is to follow them, but not blindly.

 

I find it very difficult to just start rooting for a team I have no emotional investment in.

 

I think if I lived in any city other than St. Louis I could "adopt" the hometown team as my "second" team and root for that team as well as the Cubs...alas, rooting for the cards would be like rooting for Clubber Lang in Rocky...you hate them...they aren't nice...you dont' like their fans...but deep down you know they're probably going to do all the right things to kick your arse. (I hope arse fits within the family board guidelines)

 

I've lived in NY over a decade and still haven't come close to such an adoption.

 

That's depressing...but not unexpected.

[swordsman]

In an effort to add statistics to this discussion...

 

According to ESPN.com the cubs team batting average with a 0-0 count is .333 OPS is .830.

 

According to ESPN.com the cubs team batting average with a 0-1 count is .358 OPS is .860.

 

 

According to ESPN.com the cubs team batting average with a 1-0 count is .290 OPS is .745.

 

 

*Swordsman rolls the grenade into the room and walks away whistling.*

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/hofer_bios/images/Weaver_Earl_3.jpg

Edited to remove profanity

 

Keep it clean please!

[abuck1220]

amazing as in surprising? because if that's what you mean, it's not that amazing. they sucked at it last year, brought in a few guys that also sucked at it last year, and the team sucks at it this year.

[Shavo]

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/hofer_bios/images/Weaver_Earl_3.jpgEdited to remove profanity

 

Whoever this man is ... <3.