Why are the young guys getting a shot this year?

[CubfaninCA]

Is Baker's job on the line & Hendry's forcing his hand or are these young guys just quite a bit better than what has been up in the past?? Going by Baker's track record he doesn't play youngsters right?

 

I'm pretty surprised that Neifi isn't starting everyday considering Cedeno had a rough spring. Not so surprised that Murton's in there tho.

 

Does Baker deserve a tip of the hat for playing these guys and going w/ the youngsters in the rotation??

[sunnydoo]

Baker is more than likely going to Arizona next year to be their manager. And we are going to be sorry when we end up with Jeff freaking Torborg.

[JC]

I'd say no. First of all, he has little choice at this point. The Cubs don't have three options to replace Guzman, Marshall and Hill.

 

Second, you don't praise a fireman for putting out a raging fire which has engulfed a house when he got arrived to just a smoldering ember. That is to say, people don't deserve a pat on the back when removing someone pitching as badly as Rusch should have been done earlier.

[otis89]

The reason Cedeno is playing every day is because he's been hitting the crap out of the ball. What he did in Spring Training doesn't mean anything. Even Dusty isn't stupid enough to start Neifi over Cedeno.

[BigbadB]

Is Baker's job on the line & Hendry's forcing his hand or are these young guys just quite a bit better than what has been up in the past?? Going by Baker's track record he doesn't play youngsters right?

 

I'm pretty surprised that Neifi isn't starting everyday considering Cedeno had a rough spring. Not so surprised that Murton's in there tho.

 

Does Baker deserve a tip of the hat for playing these guys and going w/ the youngsters in the rotation??

 

Yeah, I tip my cap to him. I wasn't able to see most of the games last week, but prior to that, I was quite pleased with Dusty sticking with the kids, giving the kids a chance at the top and middle of the order, batting Neifi at the bottom of the order when he does play, dropping Rusch from the rotation instead of "sticking with him" because he's a veteran.

 

We've gone around quite a few times. I'm sure I didn't need to point that out. However, Dusty is doing things that I can't really complain about. Therefore, I'm not. :wink:

[RynoRules]

I base this on nothing other than instinct, but IMO JH is taking greater charge of the team this year.

[CubfaninCA]

Baker is more than likely going to Arizona next year to be their manager. And we are going to be sorry when we end up with Jeff freaking Torborg.

 

Really?? I can see him wanting to go back west, but Arizona doesn't have a big enough budget for Baker to hide behind. I'm guessing he'd love to go back to LA, but they just hired Little. Anaheim isn't looking to hire. He's already been in San Fran. SD, Oakland and Seattle don't spend enough money for him to hide behind. Jmo but he might not have anywhere better to go considering neither NY teams or Boston want him.

[JC]

Baker is more than likely going to Arizona next year to be their manager. And we are going to be sorry when we end up with Jeff freaking Torborg.

 

Really?? I can see him wanting to bakc back west, but Arizona doesn't have a big enough budget for Baker to hide behind. I'm guessing he'd love to go back to LA, but they just hired Little. Anaheim isn't looking to hire. He's already been in San Fran. SD, Oakland and Seattle don't spend enough money for him to hide behind. Jmo but he might not have anywhere better to go considering neither NY teams or Boston want him.

 

I think the suggestion of Arizona is based on two points: 1. It is lower profile than Chicago, and 2. his former agent, Jeff Moorad, is running the show there. He has expressed a continued fondness for his old agent now and again.

 

Baker is Boston or NY? That would be bloody.

[CubfaninCA]

Is Baker's job on the line & Hendry's forcing his hand or are these young guys just quite a bit better than what has been up in the past?? Going by Baker's track record he doesn't play youngsters right?

 

I'm pretty surprised that Neifi isn't starting everyday considering Cedeno had a rough spring. Not so surprised that Murton's in there tho.

 

Does Baker deserve a tip of the hat for playing these guys and going w/ the youngsters in the rotation??

 

Yeah, I tip my cap to him. I wasn't able to see most of the games last week, but prior to that, I was quite pleased with Dusty sticking with the kids, giving the kids a chance at the top and middle of the order, batting Neifi at the bottom of the order when he does play, dropping Rusch from the rotation instead of "sticking with him" because he's a veteran.

 

We've gone around quite a few times. I'm sure I didn't need to point that out. However, Dusty is doing things that I can't really complain about. Therefore, I'm not. :wink:

 

I'm a little shocked w/ your response. :)

 

I'm not sure whether to tip the hat or chalk it up to Baker not having a job next year if he doesn't change his ways. Of course, then the hat tip goes to Hendry.

[sunnydoo]

Yep. Heard that from a couple of different outlets, and i think it is a shame, especially the way he has been treated in Chicago.

 

Dusty will end up with 2000 wins as a manager and will be in the Hall of Fame before it is over.

[JC]

 

I'm not sure whether to tip the hat or chalk it up to Baker not having a job next year if he doesn't change his ways. Of course, then the hat tip goes to Hendry.

 

Boy, if you even consider that Baker may have been sacrificing the good of the team to hold to his philosophies of favoring veterans, I can't see how you could have any respect for him. As a non-Dusty fan, I haven't even suggested that he has intentionally placed his philosophies ahead of Cub success. I think its just a function of his misplace philosophies that cripples the club on occassion.

[CubfaninCA]

Baker is more than likely going to Arizona next year to be their manager. And we are going to be sorry when we end up with Jeff freaking Torborg.

 

Really?? I can see him wanting to bakc back west, but Arizona doesn't have a big enough budget for Baker to hide behind. I'm guessing he'd love to go back to LA, but they just hired Little. Anaheim isn't looking to hire. He's already been in San Fran. SD, Oakland and Seattle don't spend enough money for him to hide behind. Jmo but he might not have anywhere better to go considering neither NY teams or Boston want him.

 

I think the suggestion of Arizona is based on two points: 1. It is lower profile than Chicago, and 2. his former agent, Jeff Moorad, is running the show there. He has expressed a continued fondness for his old agent now and again.

 

Baker is Boston or NY? That would be bloody.

 

he'd definitely have a lower profile, but that roster will expose him big time. way too many young guys for dusty.

[JC]

he'd definitely have a lower profile, but that roster will expose him big time. way too many young guys for dusty.

 

There will always be Russ Ortiz. Edgardo Alfonzo will likely be available after wearing out his welcome in the Big A. JT Snow will be looking for a job. And, Bonds has told Boras to start shopping him, or something.

 

Bring back the WS Giants!

[BigbadB]

I'm a little shocked w/ your response. :)

 

I'm not sure whether to tip the hat or chalk it up to Baker not having a job next year if he doesn't change his ways. Of course, then the hat tip goes to Hendry.

 

Honestly, why does my response shock you? These are the same things I have screamed about since his first days as a Cub manager. That he's actually doing the things I'd like to see him do isn't going to change my views. I don't argue just for the sake of arguing. And I'll give props when I feel he's doing a good job. I can't say he's been perfect, but what manager is? I just wish he had a completely healthy team so we could see if he could work a little magic this year.

 

Now, that also doesn't mean that I'm not still mad that Brian Giles, Aubrey Huff, Milton Bradley and/or Kenny Lofton aren't on this team, but that's not on Dusty. :D

[sunnydoo]

Only 4 managers have ever been +.500 8 years in a row in the entire history of the National League.

 

One of those 4 is Dusty. Cox, Clarke, and Alston are the others.

Edited May 2, 2006 by sunnydoo

[CubfaninCA]

 

I'm not sure whether to tip the hat or chalk it up to Baker not having a job next year if he doesn't change his ways. Of course, then the hat tip goes to Hendry.

 

Boy, if you even consider that Baker may have been sacrificing the good of the team to hold to his philosophies of favoring veterans, I can't see how you could have any respect for him. As a non-Dusty fan, I haven't even suggested that he has intentionally placed his philosophies ahead of Cub success. I think its just a function of his misplace philosophies that cripples the club on occassion.

 

i'm not a baker supporter. just don't think he's awful.

 

i don't think baker thinks he's sacrificing for the good of the team when he falls back on his vets. if the az rumors are true, then baker must think these rookies are pretty good, as baker loves neifi.

[mhuber92211]

Dusty in the AL? That would be strange.

 

Think of this, Dusty has wanted to get the "I don't play young kids" label off of him for a while. He always seems to bristle when he is asked about it.

 

But what would happen of the Cubs make the playoffs playing 2 rookies (basically) and having multiple young arms contribute. Will that change Dusty or will it be a fluke like '89? I am seeing more and more similarities to '89 everyday.

[CubfaninCA]

I'm a little shocked w/ your response. :)

 

I'm not sure whether to tip the hat or chalk it up to Baker not having a job next year if he doesn't change his ways. Of course, then the hat tip goes to Hendry.

 

Honestly, why does my response shock you? These are the same things I have screamed about since his first days as a Cub manager. That he's actually doing the things I'd like to see him do isn't going to change my views. I don't argue just for the sake of arguing. And I'll give props when I feel he's doing a good job. I can't say he's been perfect, but what manager is? I just wish he had a completely healthy team so we could see if he could work a little magic this year.

 

Now, that also doesn't mean that I'm not still mad that Brian Giles, Aubrey Huff, Milton Bradley and/or Kenny Lofton aren't on this team, but that's not on Dusty. :D

 

ahh, I'm just joking with you, but i guess if you don't tip the hat to baker, then hendry gets the hat tip. ;) i'll give you credit for calling it like you see it tho.

 

lofton's age & health would concern me.

[BigbadB]

Lofton would have been a nice bat off the bench with the occasional spot starts, while keeping the seat warm for Pie.

[Andy]

Dusty in the AL? That would be strange.

 

Think of this, Dusty has wanted to get the "I don't play young kids" label off of him for a while. He always seems to bristle when he is asked about it.

 

But what would happen of the Cubs make the playoffs playing 2 rookies (basically) and having multiple young arms contribute. Will that change Dusty or will it be a fluke like '89? I am seeing more and more similarities to '89 everyday.

I hear the '89/'06 comparisons a lot, but having been 2 for most of '89 I can't testify. From the sounds of it '89 was a really exciting young team to watch, and these Cubs are being carried on the backs of Murton, Marshall and Maddux right now. It's amazing what we've seen this team manage to do with the vast majority of the team struggling or injured.

[TheDude]

I'd say no. First of all, he has little choice at this point. The Cubs don't have three options to replace Guzman, Marshall and Hill.

 

Second, you don't praise a fireman for putting out a raging fire which has engulfed a house when he got arrived to just a smoldering ember. That is to say, people don't deserve a pat on the back when removing someone pitching as badly as Rusch should have been done earlier.

 

I think this is a very unfair post. Bobby Cox last season had his back to the wall with no choice but to play unproven youngsters to fill the void and he gets applauded. Dusty does it, going against his past history (which would have been to dig up some fossil to temporarily play, ala Ordonez, Grissom, Wilson, etc.), but gets no credit.

 

And yes you do praise the manager for pulling the veteran starter. How many other teams are going to pull one of their starters after 3 or 4 bad starts? It is not a very commonplace thing, and once again Dusty went against his prior history in Chicago (Estes anyone?).

[Danny82]

I think the answer is rather simple--this year's young players are better than those we have had in the recent past. Well, that and the fact that his pitching options are rather limited at this point in time.

[CubDad4Ever]

Name the "youngsters Dusty has held back. Coach L

[CubinNY]

Name the "youngsters Dusty has held back. Coach L

 

Haven't we had this conversation before?

 

Whatever career the player in question has is of little relavence to what happens at a given point in time.

 

I'll see if I can simplify it.

 

Player A is a vet who sucks but has had a decent carreer but he will likely not get better

Player B is a rookie who is better than than player A right now but still not real good, but has the potential of getting better.

 

What do you do?

 

If you are smart you play player B. This isn't a matter of competition of careers, it is a matter of who is the better player at the time and who will likely be a better player going forward.

[jjgman21]

Name the "youngsters Dusty has held back. Coach L

 

Haven't we had this conversation before?

 

Whatever career the player in question has is of little relavence to what happens at a given point in time.

 

I'll see if I can simplify it.

 

Player A is a vet who sucks but has had a decent carreer but he will likely not get better

Player B is a rookie who is better than than player A right now but still not real good, but has the potential of getting better.

 

What do you do?

 

If you are smart you play player B. This isn't a matter of competition of careers, it is a matter of who is the better player at the time and who will likely be a better player going forward.

 

allow me to preface by saying that I think Dusty prefers vets over younger players. however, I think it is quite overblown.

 

when time after time it turns out Dusty was right, ie. the younger player doesn't develop into anything, don't you think he may be on to something? I wanted to see Choi get the PT, but Karros and Simon did well. I wanted to see Bobby Hill be the starter, but Grudz had a great year. I wanted to see more of DuBois, but he's back down in AAA, and Hollandworth again is getting his PT.

 

none of these guys amounted or will amount to much. so when does it get to the point where some of us are willing to admit our expectations might have been wrong, and Dusty was right that the young player would not be an asset to the team?

 

if you are smart, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win, and nobody is able to point to an example of when Dusty was wrong in choosing a vet over a young player, with the exception of Perez over Cedeno last year.

 

in other words, your assumption of "Player B is a rookie who is better than than player A right now" is just that, an assumption. if you want to decide who the better player was at a given time, you can stick with your opinion no matter how false it turned out to be, or you can look at how the players actually performed.