When is it fair to write a player off?

[srbin84]

As in, that his season is going to end up a bad one or below his standards. I think it has to be at least 40 games.

[Outshined_One]

Depends on said player's past performances. If the guy is historically a second half player, then it'd be harder to judge early in the season. If the guy is a career .300/.380/.450 player and he's hitting .220/.240/.330 and he's putting up those numbers around the All Star Break, then it probably would be time to write him off.

 

However, if he has an established history of being mediocre, then I'd say somewhere around the end of May would be reasonable.

[AllStarMe]

I think a lot depends on how the player looks in his approach. A player might be seeing the ball well, working counts, and hitting it hard but right at people, but still have a low batting average after the first month or two of the season. I'd give him more leeway than a guy who looks lost at the plate but might have had more luck with BABIP. I guess over time the luck is supposed to even out and stats will show a more true reflection of that player's ability, but at this point in the season it's still up to the coaches to see beyond stats and focus on if the player is playing that way he needs to be successful, regardless of what his line might be. I don't think there is a set number of games that can be applied to all players.

[chopsx9]

As in, that his season is going to end up a bad one or below his standards. I think it has to be at least 40 games.

 

I think it has to be more than that. Lee was bad for close to that I think if not more in 03. His season did not end up being that great in the end(it was certainly no write off) but he also slumped a bit at the end. Johnny Damon several years back had a mediocre 1st half and a blazing second half which resulted in his best season to that point (maybe to this point I am not familiar enough with his stats).

 

How long did Aramis slump last year?

 

There are lots of examples of players who pull themselves out of prolonged slumps - Pedro Guerrero, the year he hit all those home runs in a single month (June maybe?), I think had been slumping to that point.

 

It would depend on the depth of the slump but I think when you hit 80 -90 game mark you have a pretty good idea. The longer the slump goes the more difficult and less likely a player is to pull out.

 

I will say 20 games is not near long enough.

[srbin84]

Yeah, the capabilities of the player should be a factor. Edmonds should be able to get on fire and get out of his slump, as much as I hope he won't. This thread was inspired by Jacque Jones, who seems to be written off already in a lot of peoples minds. Personally, I'm not ready to do that yet. He's one good, not great week from being on pace for a career average season.

[goonys evil twin]

Yeah, the capabilities of the player should be a factor. Edmonds should be able to get on fire and get out of his slump, as much as I hope he won't. This thread was inspired by Jacque Jones, who seems to be written off already in a lot of peoples minds. Personally, I'm not ready to do that yet. He's one good, not great week from being on pace for a career average season.

 

Jones was written off based on his career, not a bad streak.

[srbin84]

Why would anyone be mad at or frustrated with Jones for doing what he is capable of doing though? That seems stupid. That anger should be directed at Hendry.

[RynoRules]

Why would anyone be mad at or frustrated with Jones for doing what he is capable of doing though? That seems stupid. That anger should be directed at Hendry.

 

Agreed.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Yeah, the capabilities of the player should be a factor. Edmonds should be able to get on fire and get out of his slump, as much as I hope he won't. This thread was inspired by Jacque Jones, who seems to be written off already in a lot of peoples minds. Personally, I'm not ready to do that yet. He's one good, not great week from being on pace for a career average season.

 

The difference in regard to Jones, is that he's been in a decline for the past three seasons.

 

Jones' career line is 278/326/454. That wouldn't be horrible, but I think there is lots of evidence to suggest he's not going to reach those numbers.

 

In 2003, Jones hit 304/333/464. He also had a good season in 2002. since then, he's been on a steady decline.

 

In 2004, he hit 254/315/427. In 2005, he hit 249/319/438. There's nothing good about those numbers. When taken together along with his slow start, I think it's more than likely that this season he'll finish with numbers closer to those than his career mark which was buoyed by two good seasons in 2002-2003. Considering that 2004 and 2005 are a trend, it's likely Jones finishes with a 244/317/430 line which is unacceptably bad.

 

At the beginning of the season, there may have been a glimmer of hope that Jones could produce closer to his career line, but after watching him recently, it just seems that the most telling stat lines for predicting Jones's performance are his most recent seasons and those are not good.

[goonys evil twin]

Why would anyone be mad at or frustrated with Jones for doing what he is capable of doing though? That seems stupid. That anger should be directed at Hendry.

 

A) He's actually underperforming his bad numbers with terrible numbers.

 

B) He whined about not be supported enough even though he sucks and insinuated that absentee Twins fans are more loyal than Cubs fans (you expect Cubs fans to not respond to that?)

 

C) He said he's being pitched around and needs to be more patient but continues to flail at crap first pitches.

 

D) HOW MANY FREAKING TIMES DO PEOPLE HAVE TO HEAR THAT COMPLAINTS ABOUT A PLAYER ARE IMPLICITLY COMPLAINTS ABOUT MANAGEMENT FOR EMPLOYING THAT PLAYER?

[RynoRules]

Why would anyone be mad at or frustrated with Jones for doing what he is capable of doing though? That seems stupid. That anger should be directed at Hendry.

 

A) He's actually underperforming his bad numbers with terrible numbers.

 

B) He whined about not be supported enough even though he sucks and insinuated that absentee Twins fans are more loyal than Cubs fans (you expect Cubs fans to not respond to that?)

 

C) He said he's being pitched around and needs to be more patient but continues to flail at crap first pitches.

 

D) HOW MANY FREAKING TIMES DO PEOPLE HAVE TO HEAR THAT COMPLAINTS ABOUT A PLAYER ARE IMPLICITLY COMPLAINTS ABOUT MANAGEMENT FOR EMPLOYING THAT PLAYER?

 

So you think the logical thing to do is to savage the guy in order to get a message through to management? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Write a letter; write an email. Stop watching the games on t.v. Stop going. Don't buy the merchandise.

 

And I do expect Cubs fans to respond to his comments in the press, but they were booing him before he started that nonsense.

[goonys evil twin]

So you think the logical thing to do is to savage the guy in order to get a message through to management?

 

Maybe you've never read my opinion on this matter.

 

I don't boo Cubs players.

 

I'll rip him in dicussion with other fans when talking about the Cubs, here or in the real world. I'll express my opinion on his game and talk about his terrible numbers to back up my opinion. But I don't have an audience with management, so there's no goal of "savaging him". Jacque Jones is not good. He's been really bad this year. He was a terrible signing. It was a predictable terrible signing. It pisses me off that he's on the team. But I'm not going out there to boo him, I'm not trying to make him cry, and I'm not trying to influence management (if I had access, I would, but it wouldn't be on this board).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Love the sig, goony.

[Jehrico]

when is it fair to write off a player? How about when he's struggled to hit .250 the last two years and has provided by far substandard offense for his position? Or when his name is Jacque Jones? I'd take either answer...

[abuck1220]

He's one good, not great week from being on pace for a career average season.

 

that's the sad thing.

[Soul]

He's one good, not great week from being on pace for a career average season.

 

that's the sad thing.

 

True, but I also agree the angst should be directed at Hendry for bringing him in at ridiculous $$$$, rather than at Jones for being himself.

[Coach C]

Whenever the player has Neifi Perez-like numbers, it's deftinaly easy to write him off.

[RynoRules]

Whenever the player has Neifi Perez-like numbers, it's deftinaly easy to write him off.

 

ARam does.

 

I know, I know, but I couldn't resist.

[goonys evil twin]

He's one good, not great week from being on pace for a career average season.

 

that's the sad thing.

 

True, but I also agree the angst should be directed at Hendry for bringing him in at ridiculous $$$$, rather than at Jones for being himself.

 

Jones has been worse than his normal self. Plus, when the angst is directed at Hendry, you get people yelling at you to leave Hendry alone. You can't win. I just say let people write what they want as long as it's about the Cubs and fits within the rules of the board.

[treebird]

Whenever the player has Neifi Perez-like numbers, it's deftinaly easy to write him off.

 

ARam does.

 

I know, I know, but I couldn't resist.

 

aramis has an isop of 206 and nearly 2 walks for every strikeout, which is outstanding.

 

neifi has a bunch of crap.

[Soul]

He's one good, not great week from being on pace for a career average season.

 

that's the sad thing.

 

True, but I also agree the angst should be directed at Hendry for bringing him in at ridiculous $$$$, rather than at Jones for being himself.

 

Jones has been worse than his normal self. Plus, when the angst is directed at Hendry, you get people yelling at you to leave Hendry alone. You can't win. I just say let people write what they want as long as it's about the Cubs and fits within the rules of the board.

 

Wow. You are unusually Zen today, goony. 8)

 

I agree. People should say what they wish. Far be it for me to instruct people on what they should write! Just saying maybe the angst towards him is a little misplaced----not that people can't say what they want.

 

Personally---I was leery of the Jones signing when it happened. He's doing pretty much what I expected. Hopefully he can hit a few well placed homers in between the K's.

[RynoRules]

Whenever the player has Neifi Perez-like numbers, it's deftinaly easy to write him off.

 

ARam does.

 

I know, I know, but I couldn't resist.

 

aramis has an isop of 206 and nearly 2 walks for every strikeout, which is outstanding.

 

neifi has a bunch of crap.

 

I was kidding and referencing recent arguments on the topic. You above all persons on this bd. should recognize sarcasm.

[Chocolate Milk]

I feel like this is a good a place as any to point out that Neifi! has a .424 OPS.

 

UPDATE: Now .412

[srbin84]

Jones had a hell of a game today. Maybe he is breaking out of the funk.

[Caryatid]

I'm not one to say what people can and cannot talk about, but is there any way to get some things stipulated to on this board, so the same conversation doesn't have to be re-examined every three hours or so:

 

1. Neifi Perez is bad

2. Jacques Jones was a bad signing and is mediocre at best.

 

 

Since so many people seem to, for all intents and purposes(and to somewhat varying degrees), agree on these two items, can't they be placed somewhere?