Delmon Young's in Big Trouble...

[Outshined_One]

I didn't realize this until now.

 

Young got ejected after posting the first out of the game. :shock:

[Balsa]

I just saw the video. Wow.

 

Regardless of legal possibilities, there is no way baseball can tolerate this kind of attitude and danger to umpires. That is one of the inset rules of the game, that what the umpire says goes and you have to abide by that. Delmon is not only guilty of throwing a bat, but breaking one of the fundamental pillars of the game, that the umpire is not to be messed with.

 

I don't see this as any different than if a pitcher, having missed his strikeout call, walks off the mound, turns around, and fires one into the chest protector of the ump.

 

Which, in my very humble opinion, should be a season-long suspension.

 

On a side note, Delmon is certainly not gonna get any close calls from umpires for a while.

[Diffusion]

According to eye witness accounts, Young was walking away from the umpire, and then, without breaking his side, rotated himself about 360 degrees anti-clockwise just so as to underhand throw the bat at the umpire, then kept on walking without looking back. There's absolutely no way that it wasn't intentional. I don't even know why there's a debate about this.

 

And it was definately an underhand throw as opposed to an underhand flip. This wasn't a player tossing his bat away after a home run or anything like that, which is just an effortless act, you basically just let go of the thing. Young put a bit of arm and wrist into this. Sure, he could have thrown it an awful lot harder, he's a big, big, strong guy, he clearly wasn't trying to kill him or anything, but it was more than just petulance. There was a little bit of anger and frustration involved. I don't think he was trying to hurt the umpire, no way, but then again I don't know what he was hoping to achieve by it. It was obviously very heat of the moment, not particularly calculated or cold-blooded, just stupid more than anything else.

 

For what it's worth, which isn't much, it was a shocking called strike. The ball was at least six inches to a foot outside.

 

Video from the Alcantara incident here...

 

http://www.dmsjr.com/couchmedia/izzyfight.mpg

 

Leaving aside the umpire element to things, that's a lot lot worse.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Diffusion

[erik316wttn]

 

Aggravated assault? He flipped a bat at him, he didn't wield it and take a swing! Not only that, but it hit the dude square in a chest protector and he didn't even flinch. The overreaction to this is getting out of hand. There were probably plenty of people saying the same things about lawsuits and permanent bans when Alomar and Everett made their stupid decisions, and we'll probably see something similar here in terms of punishment, and that's fair.

 

Eh, he flipped a bat at him, so what the hell....He didn't flip his bat. Goodness, are y'all watching the same video as I am??

 

Anyways, yes, if someone really wanted to go after him they could charge him with aggravated assault...which in the Model Penal Code reads:

 

A person is guilty of aggravated assault if he

 

(b) attempts to cause or purposely or knowingly causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon.

 

And yes, a bat is considered a deadly weapon.

 

A gun is a deadly weapon as well, but it's deadliness is significantly lessened if you throw it at someone rather than shooting someone with it.

 

True, however, there are 2 things I see as flaws in your argument.

 

1) You can't shoot someone with a bat.

 

2) You say he was wearing a chest protector, and that should lessen Delmon's punishment. If you shoot someone, accidently or otherwise, and they just so happen to be wearing a bulletproof vest, should your punishment be lessened?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

Aggravated assault? He flipped a bat at him, he didn't wield it and take a swing! Not only that, but it hit the dude square in a chest protector and he didn't even flinch. The overreaction to this is getting out of hand. There were probably plenty of people saying the same things about lawsuits and permanent bans when Alomar and Everett made their stupid decisions, and we'll probably see something similar here in terms of punishment, and that's fair.

 

Eh, he flipped a bat at him, so what the hell....He didn't flip his bat. Goodness, are y'all watching the same video as I am??

 

Anyways, yes, if someone really wanted to go after him they could charge him with aggravated assault...which in the Model Penal Code reads:

 

A person is guilty of aggravated assault if he

 

(b) attempts to cause or purposely or knowingly causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon.

 

And yes, a bat is considered a deadly weapon.

 

A gun is a deadly weapon as well, but it's deadliness is significantly lessened if you throw it at someone rather than shooting someone with it.

 

True, however, there are 2 things I see as flaws in your argument.

 

1) You can't shoot someone with a bat.

 

2) You say he was wearing a chest protector, and that should lessen Delmon's punishment. If you shoot someone, accidently or otherwise, and they just so happen to be wearing a bulletproof vest, should your punishment be lessened?

 

See the other posts I made about the gun/bat comparison, I don't think you understand what I was going for.

 

I never said wearing a chest protector should lessen Delmon's punishment.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think there has been some great discussions on this. While I find Young's act heinous, I think a year-long suspension to a bit excessive and a lifetime ban to be ludicrous. If criminal charges can be filed, let those people take care of that.

 

An appropriate penalty would be 35-50 games with the provision Young attend anger management therapy for a full six months and undergoes a full pschiatric evaluation. If he misses one appointment, one meeting, or does not follow through with everything instructed by his therapist, the suspension is extended to one year's worth of games.

 

This would be an appropriate suspension and should also help Delmon get the help he needs. This isn't his first run-in and that should also be taken into account.

[erik316wttn]

 

Aggravated assault? He flipped a bat at him, he didn't wield it and take a swing! Not only that, but it hit the dude square in a chest protector and he didn't even flinch. The overreaction to this is getting out of hand. There were probably plenty of people saying the same things about lawsuits and permanent bans when Alomar and Everett made their stupid decisions, and we'll probably see something similar here in terms of punishment, and that's fair.

 

Eh, he flipped a bat at him, so what the hell....He didn't flip his bat. Goodness, are y'all watching the same video as I am??

 

Anyways, yes, if someone really wanted to go after him they could charge him with aggravated assault...which in the Model Penal Code reads:

 

A person is guilty of aggravated assault if he

 

(b) attempts to cause or purposely or knowingly causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon.

 

And yes, a bat is considered a deadly weapon.

 

A gun is a deadly weapon as well, but it's deadliness is significantly lessened if you throw it at someone rather than shooting someone with it.

 

True, however, there are 2 things I see as flaws in your argument.

 

1) You can't shoot someone with a bat.

 

2) You say he was wearing a chest protector, and that should lessen Delmon's punishment. If you shoot someone, accidently or otherwise, and they just so happen to be wearing a bulletproof vest, should your punishment be lessened?

 

See the other posts I made about the gun/bat comparison, I don't think you understand what I was going for.

 

I never said wearing a chest protector should lessen Delmon's punishment.

 

My bad. I took it as you saying since the ump was wearing a chest protector and "didn't even flinch", therefore it wasn't that bad.

[Guest]

OK, folks, the insulting of other posters WILL stop. There's been too much of that going on here lately.

 

As far as an appropriate penalty, I think a possible precedent is back in the 1960s when Giants pitcher Juan Marichal intentionally and repeatedly bashed the opposing catcher on the head with his bat. I don't know how long his suspension was, but that may be a good starting point to look at here. And I think the umpire should sue Young and be awarded a ton of money.

Eight days and a $1,750 fine (in 1965 dollars) for cracking John Roseboro square in the head and drawing blood. No criminal charges were filed, though Roseboro did file a civil suit that was settled before it went to trial.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Anonymous

[goonys evil twin]

Why are people trying to claim he "flipped the bat"? He didn't flip the bat. The bat turned end over end, but from the time it enters the screen to the time it hits the ump, it's traveling in a straight line. It wasn't flipped into the air nonchalantly like so many ballplayers have done. It was a deliberate act to direct the bat at a high rate of speed at the umpire. It wasn't "flipped". The SS flips the ball to the 2B on a double play. You flip your buddy a can of beer when he's too lazy to get his own. You don't flip a bat and have it travel in that motion towards an ump. That's a throw, underhand or not.

[NCCubFan]

Eight days and a $1,750 fine (in 1965 dollars) for cracking John Roseboro square in the head and drawing blood. No criminal charges were filed, though Roseboro did file a civil suit that was settled before it went to trial.

Roseboro, that's who I was thinking of. I remember it was the Dodgers' catcher, but I forgot his name. I believe what happened was the previous pitch came close to hitting Marichal in the head, and Juan thought Roseboro was calling for a brushback pitch.

[Jehrico]

I've been out of this debate for about 4 pages, so forgive me for catching up.

 

Delmon Young intended one of two things...to either harm the umpire, or to make the umpire believe he was capable and likely to harm him in the future if he didn't do as he wanted.

 

So, either he intended to harm him, or if you believe his statement that he didn't mean to hit him, then his intent was to threaten him with harm in the future the next time he made a call against him.

 

For those who don't think he intended to cause harm but believe his teammates who say he did intend to hit him, what would any reasonable person expect to happen by throwing a bat at high velocity at someone? Any reasonable person would expect pain and suffering as a result of the throw.

 

(and for those who insist on calling it an underhand flip, this underhand flip had about the same emphasis on it as when Kent Tekulve unhand flipped the ball to home when he was pitching.)

 

In either case, this is severe and is not in the same ballpark as headbutting another player or spitting at an ump. Plus, he's undermining the integrity of the game by, if you believe he didn't mean to hit him, intending to intimdate the umpire so as to influence future calls.

 

I say season ban, probation with threat of a lifetime ban in '07.

[Jehrico]

 

Leaving aside the umpire element to things, that's a lot lot worse.

 

You could argue that it's not fair, but I think the umpire element is a major part of the seriousness of this incident. Pitchers throw at batters all of the time, and the speed at which young threw his bat didn't make it any more dangerous than your typical beanball. But, but directing it at an umpire, he's undermining the integrity of the game by causing (or trying to cause) future intimidation of an official. That's why I think he should be slammed.

[Jon]

The race discussion has been split to rants.

[erik316wttn]

Any idea when a possible decision could be made regarding his suspension?

[Diffusion]

Any idea when a possible decision could be made regarding his suspension?

 

Middle of next week, apparently.

[sunnydoo]

Also the Devil Rays have stated they are going to add to the suspension whatever the International League decides. I guess they are really concerned because of his numerous past transgressions and want to make sure that the organization gets his attention this time around.

 

I think this is a real class move on their part.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Also the Devil Rays have stated they are going to add to the suspension whatever the International League decides. I guess they are really concerned because of his numerous past transgressions and want to make sure that the organization gets his attention this time around.

 

I think this is a real class move on their part.

 

Hope they're paying attention to choir boy Elijiah Dukes too.

[Vinestal]

My personal opinion is that this is getting a little blown out of proportion, there have been plenty of times I have wanted to throw a bat at an umpire and Im just watching the game. I dont agree what he did was right in any way but people are making him out to be the anti-christ or something. He's a young guy that needs to learn to control his emotions. Send him to anger management classes and suspend him for 30 games. People are acting like he tried to kill the ump or something he underhand flung the bat at the guy and hit his chest protector. Was it wrong? Yes, but Im sure there are far worse things he could have done and I dont think he will forget what he did, Im sure he will hear it brought up for as long as he lives as it is.

 

By the way can he go play in the independant league or something or is he just going to be sitting on a couch somewhere eating potatoe chips and geting out of shape for 2 months? All kidding aside Im sure he will work out ect but not playing for 30 days+ could really mess up this guys career.

[NCCubFan]

I don't think he would be able to play in an independent league. He's still under contract to the D-Rays, even though under suspension, and I think that playing in an independent league would probably be a breach of contract. He could conceivably suffer a season-ending or even career-ending injury. If it were allowed, I certainly think Josh Hamilton would be playing in an independent league.

[NorthsideAvenger]

My personal opinion is that this is getting a little blown out of proportion, there have been plenty of times I have wanted to throw a bat at an umpire and Im just watching the game. I dont agree what he did was right in any way but people are making him out to be the anti-christ or something. He's a young guy that needs to learn to control his emotions. Send him to anger management classes and suspend him for 30 games. People are acting like he tried to kill the ump or something he underhand flung the bat at the guy and hit his chest protector. Was it wrong? Yes, but Im sure there are far worse things he could have done and I dont think he will forget what he did, Im sure he will hear it brought up for as long as he lives as it is.

 

By the way can he go play in the independant league or something or is he just going to be sitting on a couch somewhere eating potatoe chips and geting out of shape for 2 months? All kidding aside Im sure he will work out ect but not playing for 30 days+ could really mess up this guys career.

 

No, it doesn't matter the intent of Delmon Young, the fact that he threw a BAT at the UMPIRE, deserves SEVERE punishment. Vinestal, this can't be tolerated, and baseball need to nip this in the bud. He needs to be suspended for the rest of the yr, because this young KID needs to grow up. This bat throwing incident isn't the only "anger" problem he has shown. When he was in Montgomery he would often get very hostile with the media in Montgomery and he would become confrontational when faced with authority. This kid, needs a wake up call, and suspending him for the yr, would be the kind of punishment he needs. He doesn't need to be babied, he KNEW what he was doing, and did it anyways.

 

And no, Vinestal, Delmon Young CAN NOT play for the Independent League, cause he is STILL under contract with the Tampa Bay. Suspending from baseball, is exactly what it means...SUSPENDED FROM BASEBALL, period.

[Diffusion]

For what it's worth, there's a slightly wider angle shot of the throw at ESPN.

 

You can see Young turn his body to throw just as he leaves the frame.

 

And the bat seems to be going a lot slower than in the more tightly cropped shot, the one that's been doing the rounds, which I think exaggerates things.

 

Check it out.

[johnnyba99]

Young ends up with a 50 game suspension.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2438919

[Jon]

In his investigation, Mobley said he could not determine, with absolute certainty, that Young had intended to hit the umpire when he threw the bat.

 

"If I had, I would have suspended him for the entire season," Mobley told Olney. "He explained to me that it was his intent to throw his bat and throw his helmet back toward to the plate to show his disgust with the call, as we've seen in other situations, and there was a miscalculation.

Absolute certainty? Perhaps not. But I'd say it was pretty close considering that the bat was around head level and still on its way up. He threw that with a heck of a lot more force than is requireed to flip it near the plate. That's a pretty big miscalculation.

 

Either way, I'm fine with the penalty. 50 games (and $175,000) and 50 hours of community service is still a lot.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

In his investigation, Mobley said he could not determine, with absolute certainty, that Young had intended to hit the umpire when he threw the bat.

 

"If I had, I would have suspended him for the entire season," Mobley told Olney. "He explained to me that it was his intent to throw his bat and throw his helmet back toward to the plate to show his disgust with the call, as we've seen in other situations, and there was a miscalculation.

Absolute certainty? Perhaps not. But I'd say it was pretty close considering that the bat was around head level and still on its way up. He threw that with a heck of a lot more force than is requireed to flip it near the plate. That's a pretty big miscalculation.

 

Either way, I'm fine with the penalty. 50 games (and $175,000) and 50 hours of community service is still a lot.

 

Not if you're unemployed for 50 games.

[Chris]

I can live with that, but I wouldn't have been surprised had the penalty been more severe. Hopefully he learns something from this experience and figures out a way to harness that energy.