Will Cub fans ever be happy?

[soapy]

I come to the board, I don't post often, I try not to. However I do read the board everyday. The Cubs now in the early season are 12 - 7. They have now 2 Rookie starting pitchers in the rotation. They have 2 Rookies playing everyday. They have there numbers 1 and 3 starers on the DL to go along with there best hitter.

 

Im I reading correctly, 12W 7L with all the above and people are still talking about a few of the Cubs players that are in early season slumps? They go to the ballpark to boo them players and still can not say one positive thing about them when they do something good.

I read last night about someone not wanting to Jones to swing at the first pitch, yet he hit a HR ont he first pitch to put the game away for us!

I read today about Pierre not hitting the ball out of the infield, yet he hit a double to the OF last night when we really need a runner on!

 

I read Baker is a bad manager and hurts the team more then he helps it. However I see nothing on the good moves he has made this season, but every time he pinch hits Perez, a new thread on the board is started. If anything Baker has risen the expectations of Cub fans and I don't think anyone can denny that! Prior to Baker coming to the Cubs, I don't recall being at, hearing on TV or radio a Cubs game were our own players were booed, why is that?

 

We won a game tonight, yet I'm not sure I will read once about the sac bunt by Jones. The move Baker made to call it.

How Baker took Marshall out at just the right time with 96 pitches thrown, his high for the season. How Baker has been very good about getting Marshall out of the game when his pitch count gets near 80 or 90 pitches.

 

I'm going on, this is not about Baker, it is not about Perez, Jones, Pierre, Rameriz (who by the way has not been hitting the cover off the ball, yet I have not heard one person boo him).

 

This is about why? What will it take for you to be happy? You pay your money, I understand that, and have the right to voice our opinion! Is a classic ansewr, you also have the right not to be a FAN (An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.) If you are so unhappy with this 12 - 7 team, why do you pay your money? If you are so unhappy with a few players on the team, why go?

 

The treatment of the fans to our own players, I had never seen prior to the last few years! NEVER! Why is it? I really don't understand it..

 

I have never seen so many Cub fans that want to cut up a wonderful win with, Baker should have, Jones needs to stop, or something else negative. I see a thread on "Bad Baker Moves", yet I can not find one for good moves! Have we really as Cub fans become so negative? Please don't tell me well it is has been 98 years since our last WS! That is a great talking point if you have been around for all 98 of them years! Kids born in the 1980's say it has been 98 years, news flash - you have been around for 26 of them and probably have been following the Cubs for 1/2 of them years!

 

All I'm asking is when did it become the "thing to do" to boo our own players? I remember hearing boo's for other teams, but our own team? How can you say in a straight face, I'm a Cubs fan, I support the Cubs and turn around at the game and boo? Is that a new form of support I don't know about?

 

It's nice to see a REAL cub fan finally come out and speak. I couldn' have put it any better myself. I too have surfed this forum for awhile, just to read up on things and get other "so-called" Cub fan's perspectives on things. But to be quite honest with you, seeing these people continuously bitch about everything (in fact, there is a thread just below this one saying something to th affect of "I can't stand Pierre" or something like that I haven't read yet, don't know if I really want to), has really soured me towards alot of these, again, "so-called" Cub fans.

 

The Cubs haven't won a damn thing in close to a century, yet all of a sudden everyone develops this consciousness and they want to boo JJ, bitch abou Pierre, etc, etc....And your right, I posted the exact same observation on another thread (JJ thread) how people bitched about JJ first pitch swinging, yet he hit a 3 run shot on a first pitch, fastball that was out of the strike zone, and NO ONE said anything about that. No one has yet to respond to me on that one.

 

The thing that gets me is alot of these guys are so caught up on "stats" and NO ONE brings up other characteristics that people bring to the table. Trust me, if anyone has ever played competitive baseball, or any sport for that matter, there's alot more than simply stats. How about leadership, how about giving 100% everyday on every play, and possibly rubbing off on others? How about bringing experience a winning attitude from winning teams (ala WS in Florida for Pierre, and JJ in Minny winning the division 3 years in a row and ALWAYS being competitive with less than stellar talent). Did these 2 players have everything to do with their respective teams success?? Obviously not. But they contributed, probably alot more than anyone on here wants to give them credit for. Bottom line is, they are coming from winning teams and I believe their attitudes and work ethic is rubbing off. It's just like life, you surround yourself with good character, winning people and good things will happen.

 

Again, everyone always talks about "stats" and "stats" alone. I even read a quote from Walker attributing alot of his early success to Pierre (I wish I can remember where I read it so some of these people can read it). When you read things from teammates talking about the things certain players bring to the clubhouse, the positive attitude and the hard work, believe me those things have an affect on people around you that can't be quantified by stats. Again, if you haven't played organized ball, you probably won't understand that. This booing and bashing crap after 3 weeks is absolutely sickening.

 

I made a comment in another thread earlier that 75% of Cub fans aren't really Cub fans. Perhaps that was a bit harsh, but the negtive crap around here about the team and certain players pisses me off. Again, we haven't won the WS in 100 years, lets give some fresh faces, with winning positive attitudes and backgrounds, a chance to play......Besides, who other than D-Lee and Maddux have we had in here recently with winning backgrounds and good team personalities? (And don't say Alou and Garciaparra, I wouldn't exactly call them good team players, besides Garciaparra hardly even played). And we've seen the affect D-Lee and Maddux have had on the team. You'd be amazed at what happens when you surround yourself with winners...

 

Thank you ATCfootball for your post, it's nice to see Cub fans being positive and backing the team 100%.

 

Oh Jesus. Please kill me.

[Caryatid]

as i've said before, the bitching about the bitching practically outweighs the bitching.

 

Which is inevitably followed by the bitching about the bitching about the bitching...

[Caryatid]

 

Oh Jesus. Please kill me.

 

Seconded.

[CubinNY]

 

I do....Walker, Lee and Ramirez are better and have not had a true leadoff man (as a group) since they've been here. They'll feed off him and Pierre will play well and put up better numbers because of their success.

 

I guess I can't quite make the connection.

 

How many RBI's would Lee and Ramirez have had last year with a mediocre leadoff man? I think you'd agree many more.

 

I think the 2, 3 and 4 hitters we put out there have the ability to do more with Pierre getting on base than he had in Florida. Pierre getting on base will help those guys and their ability to come through with runners on will help Pierre.

 

As I mentioned before, Lee made the analogy before the season that Pierre will have the same impact that Podsednik did for the Sox last year. His energy, speed and ability to get on base provides a spark and catalyst for the rest of the lineup to feed off of.

 

Pierre has not been even a medicore lead-off man to this point.

as i've said before, the bitching about the bitching practically outweighs the bitching.

 

Which is inevitably followed by the bitching about the bitching about the bitching...

Turtles down the line!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I love it when people get to arbitrarily choose what constitutes a real fan and a so-called fan.

 

Get over yourself people. No one who posts on this board is any better/worse a fan than anyone else on this board. It doesn't matter what players you like, what your thoughts on stats are, how important you think team chemistry is, what players you boo, what players you cheer, or anything. We're all equals. Saying someone is not a real fan because they don't look at the game the same way you do is childish and pathetic. Get over yourself.

 

 

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[Soul]

I love it when people get to arbitrarily choose what constitutes a real fan and a so-called fan.

 

Get over yourself people. No one who posts on this board is any better/worse a fan than anyone else on this board. It doesn't matter what players you like, what your thoughts on stats are, how important you think team chemistry is, what players you boo, what players you cheer, or anything. We're all equals. Saying someone is not a real fan because they don't look at the game the same way you do is childish and pathetic. Get over yourself.

 

 

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

 

Thank you, Rocket Sauce.

 

This post should be in the NSBB Member Guidelines.

[RynoRules]

I love it when people get to arbitrarily choose what constitutes a real fan and a so-called fan.

 

Get over yourself people. No one who posts on this board is any better/worse a fan than anyone else on this board. It doesn't matter what players you like, what your thoughts on stats are, how important you think team chemistry is, what players you boo, what players you cheer, or anything. We're all equals. Saying someone is not a real fan because they don't look at the game the same way you do is childish and pathetic. Get over yourself.

 

 

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

 

Thank you, Rocket Sauce.

 

This post should be in the NSBB Member Guidelines.

 

I agree with the above. I just wish others did too.

[TenzilKem]

I've been posting on Cub message boards since 2001 (ESPN, now NSBB), and I have seen enough to note several trends that will undoubtedly continue in the future:

 

1. No manager will ever be popular on a message board. Every manager, at some point, is going to send up pinch-hitters who strike out, put in relief pitchers who get shelled, and give a guy on your fantasy team a day off once in awhile.

 

2. No GM will ever be popular on a message board. Hendry could walk on water and the next day you'd see a thread on NSBB titled "Jim can't swim."

 

3. The roster filler guys--your backup catchers, 5th outfielders, 5th starters, long relief guys--will always be the subject of derision unless they are Cub farmhands.

 

I strongly suspect that this is the case for many other teams as well.

 

I also want to state that I agree with RocketSauce: engaging in the above behavior doesn't make you less of a fan, just as being president of the Neifi Perez Fan Club doesn't make you less of a fan.

 

But I also have to say that I get a bit tired of the relentless negativity. I don't mind reading criticism per se. One of my favorite posters to read is Goony. He's often critical, but his posts are well-written, and he always supplies evidence to back up his criticism. But I have little interest in wading through 10 pages of another "Neifi Sucks" thread.

Edited April 26, 2006 by TenzilKem

[goonys evil twin]

To answer the question in the title:

 

Yes, when the Cubs win the World Series.

 

A 12-7 record is nice, but it's nothing to go gaga over. A nice outing by Marshall against a AAA team is better than a bad outing, but it doesn't mean much. A good start is preferrable to a slow start, but it doesn't mean there's nothing that can be improved on the team. Win 90+ games, go deep into the playoffs, and actually win a World Series, and I'll be happy.

[Gunned]

I think it just depends on the board and group of Cubs fans.

 

There are a lot of positive things about NSBB, but I'll agree that there is probably more complaining here than any of the other boards I visit. That could be because there are just a lot of posters, both good and bad, and the irritating ones are (sadly) the people who seem to be heard more.

 

And while this isn't true of everyone of course, I think there is also a greater number of younger posters here than other places -- and you're more likely to get eye-roll emoticons and incessant complaining from an 18 year old than a 30 year old. Like I said, not always true, but I've seen plenty of examples.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I just love sweeping, broad, over-generalizations.

[goonys evil twin]

I think it just depends on the board and group of Cubs fans.

 

There are a lot of positive things about NSBB, but I'll agree that there is probably more complaining here than any of the other boards I visit. That could be because there are just a lot of posters, both good and bad, and the irritating ones are (sadly) the people who seem to be heard more.

 

And while this isn't true of everyone of course, I think there is also a greater number of younger posters here than other places -- and you're more likely to get eye-roll emoticons and incessant complaining from an 18 year old than a 30 year old. Like I said, not always true, but I've seen plenty of examples.

 

Wow, this is quite ridiculous.

 

The posters who post more are the bad irritating ones. Younger fans are the only ones complaining.

 

 

Well, how about this? The old folks are the only ones who think back to back .500 seasons is some sort of accomplishment and that we should just be happy with whatever the Cubs do as long as they win more than they lose, because however bad something is now, it was probably worse before.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

What's more annoying, complaining about the Cubs on a message board dedicated to Cubs baseball or complaining about those fans who post on said message board? If you want to call me less of a fan because I criticize the Cubs, then you are less of a person for criticizing me.

[1908]

I think it just depends on the board and group of Cubs fans.

 

There are a lot of positive things about NSBB, but I'll agree that there is probably more complaining here than any of the other boards I visit. That could be because there are just a lot of posters, both good and bad, and the irritating ones are (sadly) the people who seem to be heard more.

 

And while this isn't true of everyone of course, I think there is also a greater number of younger posters here than other places -- and you're more likely to get eye-roll emoticons and incessant complaining from an 18 year old than a 30 year old. Like I said, not always true, but I've seen plenty of examples.

Wow, this is quite ridiculous.

Agreed.

[USSoccer]

This is hilarious.

 

Are people really complaining that posters here have the ability to use critical thinking to form judgements and opinions of their team?

[CubinNY]

This is hilarious.

 

Are people really complaining that posters here have the ability to use critical thinking to form judgements and opinions of their team?

 

In a word, yes.

 

I am happy everytime the Cubs win. It changes my whole day. However, that doesn't mean that I can't be critical of JJ seeing 7 pitches in three ABs with two strikeouts and a pop up to the second baseman (hypothetical).

 

I think some people are upset that people criticize something that works or appears to work in a given instance but is not a good tactic for the long haul. For example, in last night's game Dusty had Barrett sac bunt Aramis to second. Later Aramis scored.

 

The other problem is in my opinon that some people are afraid of or don't like numbers. Last night someone said that they, "didn't believe the stat". It is not a matter of belief or disbelief.

[USSoccer]

This is hilarious.

 

Are people really complaining that posters here have the ability to use critical thinking to form judgements and opinions of their team?

 

In a word, yes.

 

 

Hmm...

 

I must have not been paying attention when my dad was raising me as a Cubs fan. I must have been staring at a bee or something when he told me I couldn't love the Cubs and be critical of them at the same time.

 

Oh, brain! Why must you continue to use logic and reason when thinking? Don't you know that if you apply basic reasoning skills to baseball you automatically aren't a true fan?

Edited April 26, 2006 by USSoccer

[Danny82]

I think it just depends on the board and group of Cubs fans.

 

There are a lot of positive things about NSBB, but I'll agree that there is probably more complaining here than any of the other boards I visit. That could be because there are just a lot of posters, both good and bad, and the irritating ones are (sadly) the people who seem to be heard more.

 

And while this isn't true of everyone of course, I think there is also a greater number of younger posters here than other places -- and you're more likely to get eye-roll emoticons and incessant complaining from an 18 year old than a 30 year old. Like I said, not always true, but I've seen plenty of examples.

 

Wow, this is quite ridiculous.

 

The posters who post more are the bad irritating ones. Younger fans are the only ones complaining.

 

In the interests of clarity, he never said that younger fans are the only ones complaining. To paraphrase, I believe he said that he thinks there is more complaining on this board than others because, in part, he thinks this board is a little younger overall.

[imb]

I think it just depends on the board and group of Cubs fans.

 

There are a lot of positive things about NSBB, but I'll agree that there is probably more complaining here than any of the other boards I visit. That could be because there are just a lot of posters, both good and bad, and the irritating ones are (sadly) the people who seem to be heard more.

 

And while this isn't true of everyone of course, I think there is also a greater number of younger posters here than other places -- and you're more likely to get eye-roll emoticons and incessant complaining from an 18 year old than a 30 year old. Like I said, not always true, but I've seen plenty of examples.

 

Wow, this is quite ridiculous.

 

The posters who post more are the bad irritating ones. Younger fans are the only ones complaining.

 

In the interests of clarity, he never said that younger fans are the only ones complaining. To paraphrase, I believe he said that he thinks there is more complaining on this board than others because, in part, he thinks this board is a little younger overall.

 

If he thinks that this board is "younger" than cubs.com, he must be new to the internet.

[KurtEvans]

I think it just depends on the board and group of Cubs fans.

 

There are a lot of positive things about NSBB, but I'll agree that there is probably more complaining here than any of the other boards I visit. That could be because there are just a lot of posters, both good and bad, and the irritating ones are (sadly) the people who seem to be heard more.

 

And while this isn't true of everyone of course, I think there is also a greater number of younger posters here than other places -- and you're more likely to get eye-roll emoticons and incessant complaining from an 18 year old than a 30 year old. Like I said, not always true, but I've seen plenty of examples.

 

Wow, this is quite ridiculous.

 

The posters who post more are the bad irritating ones. Younger fans are the only ones complaining.

 

In the interests of clarity, he never said that younger fans are the only ones complaining. To paraphrase, I believe he said that he thinks there is more complaining on this board than others because, in part, he thinks this board is a little younger overall.

 

If he thinks that this board is "younger" than cubs.com, he must be new to the internet.

 

I don't think he was comparing the board to Cubs.com. I think he was comparing the board to the other ones he frequents.

 

I feel like there was a vast overreaction to what he said. I don't think he was saying that everyone here is a complainer, nor do I feel that he was even saying that complaining was bad. I think he just said that there is complaining here, and that the loudest ones are generally the youngsters, and that they can be irritating. However, I don't think he was saying that all people who complain are irritating. He didn't fit everyone into the category, he said he's seen "both good and bad," and that it's "not always true."

[badgercub]

If you don't like a certain poster or their views just IGNORE them. If you don't like a thread on how much Neifi sucks, IGNORE it. How difficult is it. No one is asking you to join in on the booing, no one is asking you to agree with their assessment of any particular subject. This is a place for debate and to voice your opinion. Peace out

[Caryatid]

This is just an observation, so feel free to disregard it:

 

There are clearly two factions within the board: those who lean towards rationalism (and thus criticism of the Cubs organizatio), and those who don't (and tend not to criticize as much).

 

In this thread, and in many threads overall on the board, this is apparent. However, I've noticed that there are certain types of posts on BOTH SIDES that get more negative reactions than others. Those that get angrier responses fall into two categories, represented by each "faction" that seems to exist on the board. Here goes:

 

1. The post criticizing either (a) the manager, (b) a player, or © other posters who buy into the rationalist approach AND have an inference within the post that seems to imply that anyone who doesn't believe in that approach is somehow incredibly stupid.

 

2. The post criticizing either other posters who DON'T buy into the rationalist approach AND have an inference within the post that seems to imply that anyone who does believe in that approach is somehow not a "true fan".

 

So, in my humble opinion, the key to avoiding the type of circular discussion that has gone on in this thread is to maybe be a little more conscious of the tone of a post (which, admittedly, is really hard), and understand that others may not be reading what you write word-for-word, but with a certain attitude that shapes the manner in which they read it. I don't know if that will do much of anything, but its at least something that is worth being conscious of.

 

Who knows...just a spitballed thought.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Caryatid

[badger1679666666]

If you don't like a certain poster or their views just IGNORE them. If you don't like a thread on how much Neifi sucks, IGNORE it. How difficult is it. No one is asking you to join in on the booing, no one is asking you to agree with their assessment of any particular subject. This is a place for debate and to voice your opinion. Peace out

 

This general statement is prevelant on EVERY message board I post on -

 

Phish, NSBB, Chicago Bears, Badgermaniac etc. and I think it's an oversimplification.

 

I think

 

1) It's not easy to ignore threads and posts - that's the reason why we are ON a message board to begin with.

2) It's a discussion board so if people think Neifi sucks they are gonna say so, and if people don't like that thread they are gonna voice THAT opinion. You can't only expect one side to voice opinions - all sides will.

[badger1679666666]

 

There are clearly two factions within the board: those who lean towards rationalism (and thus criticism of the Cubs organizatio), and those who don't (and tend not to criticize as much).

 

I

 

Woah woah. Are you saying those that criticise the Cubs organizations are rational and those that don't are irrational?