Pujols' "bat-throwing" incident (explanation)

[The Voice of Reason]

 

I guess I am not an expert and guessing someones age by looking at them. I do know that Pujols still had acne as recently as last year, which isn't too typical of 30 year olds.

 

Until I see some evidence, I will continue to believe that Pujols birth certificate is correct. I get a little tired of writers occasionally claiming Pujols is older than he claims with the only support being that he couldn't be that good at such a young age.

 

Ever consider the fact that people might be pulling your chain regarding the age of Pujols?

 

BTW, isn't acne a sign of steroid use? :wink:

[CubbieRich]

All Cards fans better get their 'age' story straight. Some say he came to the U.S. when he was 10. Other sources say he was 14. Others say it was 16. Pick an age and stick to it.

 

I do know this, Pujols' mother gave birth to a baby boy in 1978 with the exact same name-Jose Albert Pujols. Must be a coincidence. When young Albert was in high school in KC, a competing high school filed suit to have Albert produce a birth certificate. Albert could not do it.

 

Does Albert point to the ground when he fails to get a hit?

[K-Town]

All Cards fans better get their 'age' story straight. Some say he came to the U.S. when he was 10. Other sources say he was 14. Others say it was 16. Pick an age and stick to it.

 

I do know this, Pujols' mother gave birth to a baby boy in 1978 with the exact same name-Jose Albert Pujols. Must be a coincidence. When young Albert was in high school in KC, a competing high school filed suit to have Albert produce a birth certificate. Albert could not do it.

 

Does Albert point to the ground when he fails to get a hit?

 

Where's the link to those stories, just out of curiosity.

 

If he's 28, so what? He's signed for 5 more years. He'll be a Cardinal through his prime, regardless of how old he is.

 

Frankly, until somebody can show some evidence that he's older than he says, it's all sour grapes as far as I'm concerned.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Albert Pujols is 67 years old, but it doesn't matter because he'll likely hit until he's 184. The guy's a freak of nature.

[LoneStarCubFan]

All Cards fans better get their 'age' story straight. Some say he came to the U.S. when he was 10. Other sources say he was 14. Others say it was 16. Pick an age and stick to it.

 

 

Hey, they could all be right... :D

[BigbadB]

Nothing angers me more than ANY player standing there admiring their work. Aramis, Sammy, Albert, Bonds, whoever.

 

If a guy hit a home run every time they stepped to the plate, that might actually make them bigger than the game itself. Until then, they are likely to fail to get a hit 70% of the time (and currently 80% if your name happens to be Aramis). Because they will fail 70% of the time, I don't see the need to showboat if they do actually get ahold of one. I don't want to see the pitcher watch the hitter walk back to the dugout after every K and I don't want to see any other display that tells me these players think they are bigger than the game.

 

That was one element of the WBC that I really enjoyed. The Cuba/Japan game was one that I truly enjoyed. The catcher would practically beat the runner down the first base line on a grounder and every other defender was moving on every play, knowing they could back up somebody.

 

It's all about selfishness and poor showmanship anymore and it's quite disgusting. The part I don't understand exactly is, who exactly are they attempting to impress when they stand there to admire a home run they just hit?

 

It's an absolute honor to be one of the few talented enough people to play baseball in MLB. Don't bring your attitude with you. That's not what got you there. Respect the fact that you are being paid very well to play this game, and give something back, even if all you really can give back is hustle and sportsmanship.

 

If I ever wonder why some of my all time favorite baseball players are guys like Mark Loretta, Bill Mueller and Shawon Dunston, it's because these guys play the game right. They run out easy grounders, they back up their teammates, etc... If Rolen plays the game the same way, then I respect him the same way.

 

Bottom line, what Albert did was definitely wrong, as was what Oliver Perez did. Zambrano's fist pumps are not a problem in my mind IF they are in celebration of the successes of the team and not meant to show up the opponent. I can't say that each time Zambrano has fist pumped in celebration that it wasn't to show up the opponent. He's young and he's very emotional.

 

I'm sure everyone has their own grading curve of what constitutes poor sportsmanship. But, you better believe it that it doesn't matter whether they play for the Cubs or the Cardinals, when I see someone get ahold of one and stand there and admire it, I'll have the same reaction. I'll probably be a bit more forgiving of a Cub that does it, simply because he plays for the Cubs and I see all sides of him. The only time I'd watch a Cardinal game is if they are playing the Cubs, so I can't be as forgiving. That's a bias I'm sure a lot of us share. Are you going to think the same way of a family member who does something that offends you as you would a complete stranger? Probably not.

 

This isn't the first time I've seen Pujols behave this way. Therefore, I don't think too highly of him. He's a great hitter, no doubt. Arguably the best in the game. Unfortunately, it's HIS own actions that I can't say the same about the way he treats the game that gives him the opportunity to show the world his talents.

[soapy]

I have no idea how old Pujols is. He is, however, a punk on the field, as are the vast majority of the Cardinals' key players. Rolen and Eckstein are the only notable exceptions to this rule.

 

 

Why so bitter??

 

Do you really have to ask that question? 98 years of suckage will often make one bitter. Shocking, I know.

[K-Town]

Nothing angers me more than ANY player standing there admiring their work. Aramis, Sammy, Albert, Bonds, whoever.

 

If a guy hit a home run every time they stepped to the plate, that might actually make them bigger than the game itself. Until then, they are likely to fail to get a hit 70% of the time (and currently 80% if your name happens to be Aramis). Because they will fail 70% of the time, I don't see the need to showboat if they do actually get ahold of one. I don't want to see the pitcher watch the hitter walk back to the dugout after every K and I don't want to see any other display that tells me these players think they are bigger than the game.

 

That was one element of the WBC that I really enjoyed. The Cuba/Japan game was one that I truly enjoyed. The catcher would practically beat the runner down the first base line on a grounder and every other defender was moving on every play, knowing they could back up somebody.

 

It's all about selfishness and poor showmanship anymore and it's quite disgusting. The part I don't understand exactly is, who exactly are they attempting to impress when they stand there to admire a home run they just hit?

 

It's an absolute honor to be one of the few talented enough people to play baseball in MLB. Don't bring your attitude with you. That's not what got you there. Respect the fact that you are being paid very well to play this game, and give something back, even if all you really can give back is hustle and sportsmanship.

 

If I ever wonder why some of my all time favorite baseball players are guys like Mark Loretta, Bill Mueller and Shawon Dunston, it's because these guys play the game right. They run out easy grounders, they back up their teammates, etc... If Rolen plays the game the same way, then I respect him the same way.

 

Bottom line, what Albert did was definitely wrong, as was what Oliver Perez did. Zambrano's fist pumps are not a problem in my mind IF they are in celebration of the successes of the team and not meant to show up the opponent. I can't say that each time Zambrano has fist pumped in celebration that it wasn't to show up the opponent. He's young and he's very emotional.

 

I'm sure everyone has their own grading curve of what constitutes poor sportsmanship. But, you better believe it that it doesn't matter whether they play for the Cubs or the Cardinals, when I see someone get ahold of one and stand there and admire it, I'll have the same reaction. I'll probably be a bit more forgiving of a Cub that does it, simply because he plays for the Cubs and I see all sides of him. The only time I'd watch a Cardinal game is if they are playing the Cubs, so I can't be as forgiving. That's a bias I'm sure a lot of us share. Are you going to think the same way of a family member who does something that offends you as you would a complete stranger? Probably not.

 

This isn't the first time I've seen Pujols behave this way. Therefore, I don't think too highly of him. He's a great hitter, no doubt. Arguably the best in the game. Unfortunately, it's HIS own actions that I can't say the same about the way he treats the game that gives him the opportunity to show the world his talents.

 

Cool. Hitters should put their heads down and run the bases after a home run?

 

And I suppose that the catcher should throw the ball directly back to the pitcher after a strikeout, instead of going "around the horn". After all, that's a little "showy", right?

[CubinNY]

What explains the Pujols not hustling to first incident?

[K-Town]

What explains the Pujols not hustling to first incident?

 

Back problems.

[PujolsPower]

I have no idea how old Pujols is. He is, however, a punk on the field, as are the vast majority of the Cardinals' key players. Rolen and Eckstein are the only notable exceptions to this rule.

 

I am sure for every punk player you identify on the Cardinals, the same can be said by Cardinal fans about your Cubs team. I personally do not believe that Albert is a punk player. You say the vast majority are punks, so name 15 out of the 25 players that are punks.

[XZero771679666304]

I have no idea how old Pujols is. He is, however, a punk on the field, as are the vast majority of the Cardinals' key players. Rolen and Eckstein are the only notable exceptions to this rule.

 

I am sure for every punk player you identify on the Cardinals, the same can be said by Cardinal fans about your Cubs team. I personally do not believe that Albert is a punk player. You say the vast majority are punks, so name 15 out of the 25 players that are punks.

 

I don't think Albert is a punk, but he does act punkish after many of his homeruns. I also think Aramis does the same thing, but not quite as bad.

 

I don't agree with the LoneStar, but he did say the vast majority of the key players, not the entire 25 man roster. On your squad, the players I think act like punks on the field are Edmonds, Pujols (sometimes). JRod exudes the aura of punk, but that could be perception.

 

I think the only 2 players who anyone could justfiably call a punk are Aramis (sometimes) and Zambrano.

 

So it seems about even.

[BigbadB]

Cool. Hitters should put their heads down and run the bases after a home run?

 

And I suppose that the catcher should throw the ball directly back to the pitcher after a strikeout, instead of going "around the horn". After all, that's a little "showy", right?

 

"Showy" isn't what needs to be removed from the game. Disrespecting the other team is what needs to be removed.

 

There isn't a thing wrong with running the bases hard and showing some enthusiasm after hitting a home run. They just recently showed Kirk Gibson's home run in the World Series where he did some fist pumps as he rounded 2nd base. That was a display of excitement for his own team rather than a "hey, I'll just stand here for a minute and admire my work" disrespect of the opposing team. Aramis sort of did it last night. How exciting is it to see a guy hitting below .200 standing there at the plate admiring a towering shot that went 370 feet. Last time I checked, Neifi Perez could hit a home run 370 feet. How special.

 

"Around the horn" is a tradition. It keeps the infielders on their toes and kills some extra time while the next batter makes his way to the plate. They don't just do it on strike outs. They do it after just about every infield out, unless there are runners on base.

 

There is not a thing wrong with showing some emotion. I never said there was. Standing there like an idiot watching your home run isn't showing emotion. It's showing up the other team. And I have absolutely zero problem if pitchers start earholing anyone who does it.

 

Pujols is not bigger than the game. Aramis is not bigger than the game. No one is. Do a Scott Rolen and hustle around the bases. If you want to be admired for your accomplishment, the fans will probably call you out for a curtain call. If they didn't, it probably wasn't all that special to begin with, and certainly not worth standing there and admiring yourself. It's selfish and unsportsmanlike, and these attitudes (along with many other things) are helping to tarnish this game.

[K-Town]

Cool. Hitters should put their heads down and run the bases after a home run?

 

And I suppose that the catcher should throw the ball directly back to the pitcher after a strikeout, instead of going "around the horn". After all, that's a little "showy", right?

 

"Showy" isn't what needs to be removed from the game. Disrespecting the other team is what needs to be removed.

 

There isn't a thing wrong with running the bases hard and showing some enthusiasm after hitting a home run. They just recently showed Kirk Gibson's home run in the World Series where he did some fist pumps as he rounded 2nd base. That was a display of excitement for his own team rather than a "hey, I'll just stand here for a minute and admire my work" disrespect of the opposing team. Aramis sort of did it last night. How exciting is it to see a guy hitting below .200 standing there at the plate admiring a towering shot that went 370 feet. Last time I checked, Neifi Perez could hit a home run 370 feet. How special.

 

"Around the horn" is a tradition. It keeps the infielders on their toes and kills some extra time while the next batter makes his way to the plate. They don't just do it on strike outs. They do it after just about every infield out, unless there are runners on base.

 

There is not a thing wrong with showing some emotion. I never said there was. Standing there like an idiot watching your home run isn't showing emotion. It's showing up the other team. And I have absolutely zero problem if pitchers start earholing anyone who does it.

 

Pujols is not bigger than the game. Aramis is not bigger than the game. No one is. Do a Scott Rolen and hustle around the bases. If you want to be admired for your accomplishment, the fans will probably call you out for a curtain call. If they didn't, it probably wasn't all that special to begin with, and certainly not worth standing there and admiring yourself. It's selfish and unsportsmanlike, and these attitudes (along with many other things) are helping to tarnish this game.

 

 

Actually they're not. The game is probably more popular today than it's ever been.

[CubbieRich]

I have no idea how old Pujols is. He is, however, a punk on the field, as are the vast majority of the Cardinals' key players. Rolen and Eckstein are the only notable exceptions to this rule.

 

I am sure for every punk player you identify on the Cardinals, the same can be said by Cardinal fans about your Cubs team. I personally do not believe that Albert is a punk player. You say the vast majority are punks, so name 15 out of the 25 players that are punks.

 

The Cards have had far more punks than the Cubs. Lonnie Smith, David Green, Keith Hernandez, Darrell Porter, Joaquin Andujar and others were notable drug abusers. The Cards even hired druggie Dave Parker as their batting coach and they had a very drinkie batting coach who had to resign a couple years ago.

 

Cards fans don't like to look in the mirror when it comes to bad players. They are so obsessed with the Cubs, they check our box scores first before their own. They know who the most popular team is in the world.

[RynoRules]

This seems like an unneccesary convo. Play enough games over enough seasons, and every team has a few bad seeds. Not a big deal, IMO.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Cool. Hitters should put their heads down and run the bases after a home run?

 

And I suppose that the catcher should throw the ball directly back to the pitcher after a strikeout, instead of going "around the horn". After all, that's a little "showy", right?

 

"Showy" isn't what needs to be removed from the game. Disrespecting the other team is what needs to be removed.

 

There isn't a thing wrong with running the bases hard and showing some enthusiasm after hitting a home run. They just recently showed Kirk Gibson's home run in the World Series where he did some fist pumps as he rounded 2nd base. That was a display of excitement for his own team rather than a "hey, I'll just stand here for a minute and admire my work" disrespect of the opposing team. Aramis sort of did it last night. How exciting is it to see a guy hitting below .200 standing there at the plate admiring a towering shot that went 370 feet. Last time I checked, Neifi Perez could hit a home run 370 feet. How special.

 

"Around the horn" is a tradition. It keeps the infielders on their toes and kills some extra time while the next batter makes his way to the plate. They don't just do it on strike outs. They do it after just about every infield out, unless there are runners on base.

 

There is not a thing wrong with showing some emotion. I never said there was. Standing there like an idiot watching your home run isn't showing emotion. It's showing up the other team. And I have absolutely zero problem if pitchers start earholing anyone who does it.

 

Pujols is not bigger than the game. Aramis is not bigger than the game. No one is. Do a Scott Rolen and hustle around the bases. If you want to be admired for your accomplishment, the fans will probably call you out for a curtain call. If they didn't, it probably wasn't all that special to begin with, and certainly not worth standing there and admiring yourself. It's selfish and unsportsmanlike, and these attitudes (along with many other things) are helping to tarnish this game.

 

 

Actually they're not. The game is probably more popular today than it's ever been.

 

He didn't say it was making it less popular.

[K-Town]

Cool. Hitters should put their heads down and run the bases after a home run?

 

And I suppose that the catcher should throw the ball directly back to the pitcher after a strikeout, instead of going "around the horn". After all, that's a little "showy", right?

 

"Showy" isn't what needs to be removed from the game. Disrespecting the other team is what needs to be removed.

 

There isn't a thing wrong with running the bases hard and showing some enthusiasm after hitting a home run. They just recently showed Kirk Gibson's home run in the World Series where he did some fist pumps as he rounded 2nd base. That was a display of excitement for his own team rather than a "hey, I'll just stand here for a minute and admire my work" disrespect of the opposing team. Aramis sort of did it last night. How exciting is it to see a guy hitting below .200 standing there at the plate admiring a towering shot that went 370 feet. Last time I checked, Neifi Perez could hit a home run 370 feet. How special.

 

"Around the horn" is a tradition. It keeps the infielders on their toes and kills some extra time while the next batter makes his way to the plate. They don't just do it on strike outs. They do it after just about every infield out, unless there are runners on base.

 

There is not a thing wrong with showing some emotion. I never said there was. Standing there like an idiot watching your home run isn't showing emotion. It's showing up the other team. And I have absolutely zero problem if pitchers start earholing anyone who does it.

 

Pujols is not bigger than the game. Aramis is not bigger than the game. No one is. Do a Scott Rolen and hustle around the bases. If you want to be admired for your accomplishment, the fans will probably call you out for a curtain call. If they didn't, it probably wasn't all that special to begin with, and certainly not worth standing there and admiring yourself. It's selfish and unsportsmanlike, and these attitudes (along with many other things) are helping to tarnish this game.

 

 

Actually they're not. The game is probably more popular today than it's ever been.

 

He didn't say it was making it less popular.

 

 

 

True.

 

Popular is good though. I don't see what the problem is.

 

I think that there's a misconception that all of the players from "back in the day" would put their head down and sprint around the bases following a home run. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Other than today's athletes being far and away more prepared and better conditioned that those in the past, I don't think there's alot of difference between today's game and the game that has been played in previous eras.

[BigbadB]

I think that there's a misconception that all of the players from "back in the day" would put their head down and sprint around the bases following a home run. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Other than today's athletes being far and away more prepared and better conditioned that those in the past, I don't think there's alot of difference between today's game and the game that has been played in previous eras.

 

Are you kidding me? There was a day when less than 10 HR's was good enough to lead the league. Compare how many more home runs are hit today as there were back then. Do you think they all could hit them just fine, but would rather hit a single instead?

 

Considering the fact that some of the smallest guys in baseball (Eckstein) can hit a ball out of the park today, it really isn't that big of a deal when someone hits one. What is the AVG for HR's hit in the major leagues per day? What is the AVG per week?

 

The size of major league baseball parks have become silly. When a fence is moved in, more home runs will take place. Less balls will fall for hits since the outfielders have less ground to cover. It's becoming a 1 dimensional game. A 340 foot HR is nothing special at all. Hit that same ball to centerfield, and it's a routine fly out.

 

You're welcome to disagree with me. I'm not attempting to change your opinion. But, I happen to find it repulsive, whether a Cub player does it, a Cardinal player does it, or anyone else. Anyone who does it, is a selfish player who thinks they are bigger than the game itself, IMO.

[K-Town]

I think that there's a misconception that all of the players from "back in the day" would put their head down and sprint around the bases following a home run. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Other than today's athletes being far and away more prepared and better conditioned that those in the past, I don't think there's alot of difference between today's game and the game that has been played in previous eras.

 

Are you kidding me? There was a day when less than 10 HR's was good enough to lead the league. Compare how many more home runs are hit today as there were back then. Do you think they all could hit them just fine, but would rather hit a single instead?

 

Considering the fact that some of the smallest guys in baseball (Eckstein) can hit a ball out of the park today, it really isn't that big of a deal when someone hits one. What is the AVG for HR's hit in the major leagues per day? What is the AVG per week?

 

The size of major league baseball parks have become silly. When a fence is moved in, more home runs will take place. Less balls will fall for hits since the outfielders have less ground to cover. It's becoming a 1 dimensional game. A 340 foot HR is nothing special at all. Hit that same ball to centerfield, and it's a routine fly out.

 

You're welcome to disagree with me. I'm not attempting to change your opinion. But, I happen to find it repulsive, whether a Cub player does it, a Cardinal player does it, or anyone else. Anyone who does it, is a selfish player who thinks they are bigger than the game itself, IMO.

 

 

You don't have to like it, but to be "repulsed" by it is a little extreme. It IS a game........ always has been. I'm "repulsed" by someone who burns a flag, or abuses children. I don't recall ever witnessing an incident in a baseball game that I would call "repulsive".

 

As for the increase in home runs, that's probably true. Is there any evidence that today's parks are smaller? Yankee Stadium, Wrigley Field, and Fenway Park are all old stadiums, and I don't think it's harder to hit the ball out of those parks than it is most of the new ones, is it?

 

You see more home runs because the players today are much better than they used to be. That's the biggest thing.

[PujolsPower]

The Cards have had far more punks than the Cubs. Lonnie Smith, David Green, Keith Hernandez, Darrell Porter, Joaquin Andujar and others were notable drug abusers. The Cards even hired druggie Dave Parker as their batting coach and they had a very drinkie batting coach who had to resign a couple years ago.

 

Cards fans don't like to look in the mirror when it comes to bad players. They are so obsessed with the Cubs, they check our box scores first before their own. They know who the most popular team is in the world.

 

So now players who used drugs in the early 80's are punks, and the Cardinals have more because of 4 players who may have used drugs, never mind that the best of the 4 was traded awy because of his alleged drug problems. Cubs players are angels, and Cards players are punk druggies...nice logic.

[SouthSideRyan]

Are you kidding me? There was a day when less than 10 HR's was good enough to lead the league.

 

 

Yeah, 90 years ago. Let's go back to that.

Edited May 9, 2006 by SouthSideRyan

[CubbieRich]

The Cards have had far more punks than the Cubs. Lonnie Smith, David Green, Keith Hernandez, Darrell Porter, Joaquin Andujar and others were notable drug abusers. The Cards even hired druggie Dave Parker as their batting coach and they had a very drinkie batting coach who had to resign a couple years ago.

 

Cards fans don't like to look in the mirror when it comes to bad players. They are so obsessed with the Cubs, they check our box scores first before their own. They know who the most popular team is in the world.

 

So now players who used drugs in the early 80's are punks, and the Cardinals have more because of 4 players who may have used drugs, never mind that the best of the 4 was traded awy because of his alleged drug problems. Cubs players are angels, and Cards players are punk druggies...nice logic.

 

No mirrors in your house, I see. The facts are there or shall I bring up Kile's usage and what a hero he was to leave a widow and three kids.

 

Hernandez was involved in the famous Pittsburgh drug trial and admitted he was a doper. Whitey Herzog knew it and rather than destroy his career, kept quiet and traded him. Dave Parker was at the same trial, admitted he was a doper. Porter did drugs in KC and St. Louis and they found him dead under some tree in a park. Etc...etc..etc..

 

Sure the Cubs have had some bums in recent years-Todd Hundley was disrespectful to the fans just like Garry Templeton. You have Big Yak, we have Sammy. But there has not been the blatant substance abuse on the Cubs like there has been with the Cards. We've had our share of drinkers though.

[K-Town]

The Cards have had far more punks than the Cubs. Lonnie Smith, David Green, Keith Hernandez, Darrell Porter, Joaquin Andujar and others were notable drug abusers. The Cards even hired druggie Dave Parker as their batting coach and they had a very drinkie batting coach who had to resign a couple years ago.

 

Cards fans don't like to look in the mirror when it comes to bad players. They are so obsessed with the Cubs, they check our box scores first before their own. They know who the most popular team is in the world.

 

So now players who used drugs in the early 80's are punks, and the Cardinals have more because of 4 players who may have used drugs, never mind that the best of the 4 was traded awy because of his alleged drug problems. Cubs players are angels, and Cards players are punk druggies...nice logic.

 

No mirrors in your house, I see. The facts are there or shall I bring up Kile's usage and what a hero he was to leave a widow and three kids.

 

Hernandez was involved in the famous Pittsburgh drug trial and admitted he was a doper. Whitey Herzog knew it and rather than destroy his career, kept quiet and traded him. Dave Parker was at the same trial, admitted he was a doper. Porter did drugs in KC and St. Louis and they found him dead under some tree in a park. Etc...etc..etc..

 

Sure the Cubs have had some bums in recent years-Todd Hundley was disrespectful to the fans just like Garry Templeton. You have Big Yak, we have Sammy. But there has not been the blatant substance abuse on the Cubs like there has been with the Cards. We've had our share of drinkers though.

 

The Cubs have had their own issues of immorality, haven't they? Weren't there problems with Sandberg's wife sleeping with his teammates? Didn't Kerry Wood get busted urinating in public, or something?

 

Come on........ this stuff is just stupid. Every franchise has it's share of unfortunate incidents. Why bring it up?

[PujolsPower]

 

No mirrors in your house, I see. The facts are there or shall I bring up Kile's usage and what a hero he was to leave a widow and three kids.

 

 

I won't go in to how pathetic I think that comment was. I will say that Kile died from irregularities due to an enlarged heart. Please do not try to imply that his death was caused by drug usage. Despicable.