just so we're on the same page regarding Dusty....

[bring stone back]

If we're in the same exact situation as last night (late innings, bases loaded, no outs) and Barrett pinch hits for Blanco and grounds into a double play Dusty is an idiot again, right? Just making sure....

 

I don't visit this site that much but I have not seen a complaint about Hendry, Dusty or Neifi in the last page or two and want to make sure the haters here maintain their integrity.

 

I know we're 4-1 and all seems to be going well, but I'd rather see the constant complainers come out and remain consistent at least. At times I think people on this site would almost rather see Neifi strike out in a tight spot or Baker push the "wrong button" so they can tell the rest of us how bad they suck and how they were right all along.

 

Apparently you missed this thread, among others.

 

If you have a point to make, make it. Don't play calling-out games when you weren't around to make your case earlier.

 

And BTW, Barrett wasn't pinch-hitting for Blanco last night.

 

I do have a point to make and made it. Some on this board bitch way too much for absolutely no reason and are nowhere to be seen when things are going well.

[bring stone back]

If you are going to criticize Dusty when something goes wrong you have to applaud him when something goes right.

 

No you don't. It's his job to make correct moves.

 

You have never been commended at your work for doing a good job? You have either never done a good job or you have poor management.

[Banedon]

Then, when Dusty makes what is deemed to be a good move and it looks like some of Hendry's retooling in the bullpen seems to be paying off I hear nothing.

 

Then to be honest, you simply aren't looking hard enough. Take a look at these threads, where "Dusty Haters" admit that Dusty has actually been pretty good so far this season, or at least hasn't done anything terrible thus far.

 

Dusty

 

What I liked about Week 1

 

This board isn't all negative.

[ltb]

Baker is still a below average manager. If the Cubs win the World Series, he'll still be a below average manager.

 

Happy?

 

If the Cubs are winning, that probably means people are feeling positive, and feel that it's less necessary to call out Dusty. It doesn't mean he's improved or that he's good, but if the Cubs are winning, why ruin that good mood by reminding ourselves we have a pretty bad manager?

 

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

baker IS a bad manager. he makes stupid decisions (in fairness to him, few this year). he has difficulty constructing lineups. he can't manage a pitching staff. he has a ridiculous veteran fetish.

 

manager of the year awards don't mean a thing. that's like believing bobby abreu is actually a gold glover - it just isn't the case.

 

and i wouldn't be measuring dusty based on playoff appearances. a [expletive] monkey could have managed the 2003 cubs into the playoffs, not to mention many of the giants teams with the best hitter in the history of baseball.

[bring stone back]

Baker is still a below average manager. If the Cubs win the World Series, he'll still be a below average manager.

 

Happy?

 

If the Cubs are winning, that probably means people are feeling positive, and feel that it's less necessary to call out Dusty. It doesn't mean he's improved or that he's good, but if the Cubs are winning, why ruin that good mood by reminding ourselves we have a pretty bad manager?

 

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

baker IS a bad manager. he makes stupid decisions (in fairness to him, few this year). he has difficulty constructing lineups. he can't manage a pitching staff. he has a ridiculous veteran fetish.

 

manager of the year awards don't mean a thing. that's like believing bobby abreu is actually a gold glover - it just isn't the case.

 

and i wouldn't be measuring dusty based on playoff appearances. a [expletive] monkey could have managed the 2003 cubs into the playoffs, not to mention many of the giants teams with the best hitter in the history of baseball.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think his lineups are that bad. I do think he has a tendency to overuse pitchers at times, but the "veteran fetish" as you say is way overblown. As a manager, he's playing the percentages knowing what he has instead of huge question marks and inconsistency with no track record. He gave Murton and Cedeno every chance to start at their respective positions and they took it. Perhaps others have not.

[Chris]

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

How did he manage in those postseason appearances?

 

Since 1993, Dusty Baker has MORE Manager of the Year Awards than Bobby Cox. That kinda puts that award in perspective, doesn't it.

[daske17]

baker IS a bad manager. he makes stupid decisions (in fairness to him, few this year). he has difficulty constructing lineups. he can't manage a pitching staff. he has a ridiculous veteran fetish.

 

manager of the year awards don't mean a thing. that's like believing bobby abreu is actually a gold glover - it just isn't the case.

 

and i wouldn't be measuring dusty based on playoff appearances. a [expletive] monkey could have managed the 2003 cubs into the playoffs, not to mention many of the giants teams with the best hitter in the history of baseball.

 

I don't want to jump into the middle of this, but I take exception of comparing manager of year awards to the gold gloves. Yes, the gold gloves have become a joke in recent years because they seem to be rewarding offense and reputation more than actual defensive skills.

 

But if you look at the past managers of the year, they really do deserve the honors for their accomplishments. This isn't like awarding it to Joe Torre every year because the Yankees made the playoffs. People like Bobby Cox the past two years for the NL, and Ozzie and Buck Showalter (2005 and 2004, respectively) really did good jobs as manager and led their teams to a higher caliber of play.

 

Okay, carry on with your discussion.

[bring stone back]

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

How did he manage in those postseason appearances?

 

Since 1993, Dusty Baker has MORE Manager of the Year Awards than Bobby Cox. That kinda puts that award in perspective, doesn't it.

 

I think he's pretty damn good, the players love to play for him and has an impressive track record. I hope he stays.

 

I think many fans, and in this case many on this board, are far too critical of him. I am not a fan of firing a manager or making moves just for the sake of doing so.

[CubinNY]

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

How did he manage in those postseason appearances?

 

Since 1993, Dusty Baker has MORE Manager of the Year Awards than Bobby Cox. That kinda puts that award in perspective, doesn't it.

 

I think he's pretty damn good, the players love to play for him and has an impressive track record. I hope he stays.

 

What impressive track record are you talking about?

 

Is he good at betting on horses?

[fromthestretch]

I don't think his lineups are that bad.

 

So you were ok with Patterson, Macias, and Perez getting regular at bats in the first two spots in the order last year?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is it me, or have the people who criticize Dusty now been bashed for continuing to "complain" while we're having success, and simultaneously bashed for "disappearing" while we're having success?

[RynoRules]

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

How did he manage in those postseason appearances?

 

Since 1993, Dusty Baker has MORE Manager of the Year Awards than Bobby Cox. That kinda puts that award in perspective, doesn't it.

 

I think he's pretty damn good, the players love to play for him and has an impressive track record. I hope he stays.

 

I think many fans, and in this case many on this board, are far too critical of him. I am not a fan of firing a manager or making moves just for the sake of doing so.

 

I agree to some extent. There are some of us who appear to have it in for him and are hypercrtical; I don't know why.

 

On the other hand, the majority (not all) of the criticisim of his in-game decision making and relative preference for vets is legit, IMO. I am glad to see that he is starting to play younger guys this year.

[RynoRules]

Is it me, or have the people who criticize Dusty now been bashed for continuing to "complain" while we're having success, and simultaneously bashed for "disappearing" while we're having success?

 

I dunno about that one.

[Soul]

Dusty's new found popularity will disappear pretty quick if he keeps having to trot Rusch out there. We need a better option from the minors. I don't even want Rusch coming out of our bullpen. He did this with Milwaukee, too. Had a couple decent years, then POOF! 1 and 13.

 

This is Rusch's 1-13 season with the Cubs. Let's cut it off now, save ourselves the horror of watching him blow game after game after game.

[MPrior]

Dusty does take a lot of abuse. And, to a certain extent, this is a bit of hard luck, because as TT pointed out earlier, when a manager does things right, it pretty much just means that they've made the obviously correct decision (i.e., didn't screw up), and so don't get much praise for it, but when a manager does something wrong, it's usually picked apart, because it tends to be a pretty obviously stupid thing to do. So it's generally a pretty thankless job.

 

BUT - that's the same for every manager everywhere, and that doesn't change the fact that an extraordinary amount of Dusty's decisions are exceptionally, frustratingly, mind-bogglingly stupid. He can't construct a lineup to save his life. He gives terrible, terrible players FAR too much playing time, all the while allowing more promising and/or more capable players to rot on the bench. He's never met a pitcher that he can't misuse, reliever or starter (well, he's still working on Maddux, but that's about it). So while Dusty does bring some very good things to the table (some players - and I emphasize some - really like him, for example, and that is a good thing), he still deserves most of the criticism that he gets on this board.

[bring stone back]

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

How did he manage in those postseason appearances?

 

Since 1993, Dusty Baker has MORE Manager of the Year Awards than Bobby Cox. That kinda puts that award in perspective, doesn't it.

 

I wouldn't use Bobby Cox as your benchmark against Dusty when discussing postseason success and failures.

[bring stone back]

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

How did he manage in those postseason appearances?

 

Since 1993, Dusty Baker has MORE Manager of the Year Awards than Bobby Cox. That kinda puts that award in perspective, doesn't it.

 

I think he's pretty damn good, the players love to play for him and has an impressive track record. I hope he stays.

 

What impressive track record are you talking about?

 

Is he good at betting on horses?

 

Taking SF to the series, taking us 4 outs away while also having multiple postseason appearances, losing out to the Braves for the NL West title with a 103 win Giant team and losing out to the Cubs in a playoff play-in game is a pretty damn good track record.

[UK1679666180]

I wouldn't use Bobby Cox as your benchmark against Dusty when discussing postseason success and failures.

 

I value his ability to get his team into the post-season year after year, more than the Braves inability to win the title. Of course, he does have a WS ring unlike Baker.

[bring stone back]

I don't think his lineups are that bad.

 

So you were ok with Patterson, Macias, and Perez getting regular at bats in the first two spots in the order last year?

 

Yes, considering the injuries to Nomar and Walker had a ripple effect through the entire lineup last year.

 

If I recall, Dusty tried different lineups literally every other game last year trying to find the right mix. I think it was more a lack of options and not stupidity.

[Chris]

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

 

How did he manage in those postseason appearances?

 

Since 1993, Dusty Baker has MORE Manager of the Year Awards than Bobby Cox. That kinda puts that award in perspective, doesn't it.

 

I wouldn't use Bobby Cox as your benchmark against Dusty when discussing postseason success and failures.

 

Where was I saying that Bobby Cox is a better postseason Manager in my post?

[Chris]

I wouldn't use Bobby Cox as your benchmark against Dusty when discussing postseason success and failures.

 

BTW, 60-58 > 17-19

[fromthestretch]

I don't think his lineups are that bad.

 

So you were ok with Patterson, Macias, and Perez getting regular at bats in the first two spots in the order last year?

 

Yes, considering the injuries to Nomar and Walker had a ripple effect through the entire lineup last year.

 

If I recall, Dusty tried different lineups literally every other game last year trying to find the right mix. I think it was more a lack of options and not stupidity.

 

He had options, such as putting Walker up there every game when he was healthy. Walker got 100 at-bats batting sixth last year.

 

He could have given Murton and Cedeno more opportunities in either of the first two spots. Instead, Murton spent most of his time in the 6th, 7th, and 8th spots.

 

There were options.

[bring stone back]

I don't think his lineups are that bad.

 

So you were ok with Patterson, Macias, and Perez getting regular at bats in the first two spots in the order last year?

 

Yes, considering the injuries to Nomar and Walker had a ripple effect through the entire lineup last year.

 

If I recall, Dusty tried different lineups literally every other game last year trying to find the right mix. I think it was more a lack of options and not stupidity.

 

He had options, such as putting Walker up there every game when he was healthy. Walker got 100 at-bats batting sixth last year.

 

He could have given Murton and Cedeno more opportunities in either of the first two spots. Instead, Murton spent most of his time in the 6th, 7th, and 8th spots.

 

There were options.

 

Murton played what...the last 25-30 games of the year? By then the damage was done.

[Chris]

Murton played what...the last 25-30 games of the year? By then the damage was done.

 

Murton was called up July 7th

[bring stone back]

Murton played what...the last 25-30 games of the year? By then the damage was done.

 

Murton was called up July 7th

 

If you were a manager would you honestly insert a rookie who just jumped up from AA into the second spot in the lineup? More often than not, they need to prove themselves with some major league AB's first.

 

If he was called up on July 7, that's one thing. How many games did he actually start?