just so we're on the same page regarding Dusty....

[J.R.]

im pretty sure that if barrett pinch hits for blanco, that no matter what the outcome, it was the right move, so in conclusion i think you are drunk sir.

 

My response would be too similar to post with any semblance of legitimacy, so I'll just lamely co-opt yours.

[BobRoss139]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

That's because one happens far more frequently than the other. Just playing the odds.

[rocket]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

Are you kidding? Find a post where someone has said it is 100% unacceptable to swing at the first pitch in any situation. You won't be able to find one.

 

Of course we're going to complain if a batter makes an out on the first pitch. Making an out on the first pitch is essentially the most worthless at-bat possible. You should only swing at the first pitch if it's exactly what you're looking for and you're able to do something good with it. If you hit a homerun or get a hit, great, you didn't waste your one pitch at bat. But if you make an out (which Cubs players tend to do when they swing at the first pitch), you've had the worst at bat possible.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

Are you kidding? Find a post where someone has said it is 100% unacceptable to swing at the first pitch in any situation. You won't be able to find one.

 

Of course we're going to complain if a batter makes an out on the first pitch. Making an out on the first pitch is essentially the most worthless at-bat possible. You should only swing at the first pitch if it's exactly what you're looking for and you're able to do something good with it. If you hit a homerun or get a hit, great, you didn't waste your one pitch at bat. But if you make an out (which Cubs players tend to do when they swing at the first pitch), you've had the worst at bat possible.

 

 

Worse than hitting into a triple play?

[rocket]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

Are you kidding? Find a post where someone has said it is 100% unacceptable to swing at the first pitch in any situation. You won't be able to find one.

 

Of course we're going to complain if a batter makes an out on the first pitch. Making an out on the first pitch is essentially the most worthless at-bat possible. You should only swing at the first pitch if it's exactly what you're looking for and you're able to do something good with it. If you hit a homerun or get a hit, great, you didn't waste your one pitch at bat. But if you make an out (which Cubs players tend to do when they swing at the first pitch), you've had the worst at bat possible.

 

 

Worse than hitting into a triple play?

 

Just imagine a one-pitch triple play.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

Are you kidding? Find a post where someone has said it is 100% unacceptable to swing at the first pitch in any situation. You won't be able to find one.

 

Of course we're going to complain if a batter makes an out on the first pitch. Making an out on the first pitch is essentially the most worthless at-bat possible. You should only swing at the first pitch if it's exactly what you're looking for and you're able to do something good with it. If you hit a homerun or get a hit, great, you didn't waste your one pitch at bat. But if you make an out (which Cubs players tend to do when they swing at the first pitch), you've had the worst at bat possible.

 

 

Worse than hitting into a triple play?

 

Just imagine a one-pitch triple play.

 

kinda off the subject but did you see where Gonzaga made triple plays in back to back innings last week

[cjbucks]

People are hard on Dusty because they are passionate. That allows them to overlook the fact that most other managers do the same things as Dusty.

 

Bobby Cox uses Remlinger as a lefty specialist just the same as Dusty did, despite the splits. Cox will still be applauded as a better manager than Dusty and the similarities will be overlooked.

 

I watched the Brave's game last night - had to laugh when Cox brought Remmy out to start an inning where he would be facing Utley and Howard. He got Burrell out, then hit Utley and gave up a hit to Howard at which point Cox pulled him. No need for the left specialist any more with righties coming up! :lol:

[BigbadB]

Before people start new threads that question why people don't give credit where credit is due, they should first read all the threads to make sure people haven't given credit where credit is due.

 

A lot of people (including myself) have given Dusty credit for how well he has managed the team so far this year. Some people will never reach a point where they feel inclined to give him any credit, and I can't blame them.

 

If the Cubs win a game even though a poor decision was made that could have cost the team that game, it doesn't nullify the poor decision.

 

Yes, every manager will make poor decisions. And it isn't necessarily the manager who makes the least amount of poor decisions that will win. It's the managers job to put a team in the best position to win. Period.

 

If Dusty ran out a starting line up that looked like this:

 

Rusch SS

Aramis 2b

Lee CF

Neifi C

Jones 3b

Pierre 1b

Cedeno RF

Blanco LF

Novoa SP

 

All hell would break loose. But, what if the Cubs actually won that game? Would it justify running that same line up out there the next day? Would the poor decision to run this line up simply be forgiven?

 

While Dusty's decisions aren't nearly close to the scale of the line up above, his typical day to day decisions don't put the team in the best position to win. And when a manager doesn't do his job as well as he could, he deserves criticism.

 

But, this thread really wasn't needed anyway, because a lot of us Dusty detractors have given credit to Dusty for his nice start. Winning does solve a lot of it, as well. Many of us aren't really Dusty detractors because we want to be. He seems like a guy that I'd like to like. However, I watched too many games last year and the year prior to just simply write off all of those games because he has a mini winning streak going to start this season. I'd love for nothing more than to see him make many more "right" decisions than "wrong" ones. I always hope that he has learned from his mistakes. I hoped we would never see Neifi at the top of the order. Not in the line up in general, because that really isn't that big of a deal. I don't want to see him at the top of the order.

 

Neifi belongs at the top of the order just as much as any of the pitchers on the staff belong at the top of the order. The top of the order is not where you hide poor OBP guys in your line up.

 

I'm not going to sit there and analyze every single play to determine if it was the right move or the wrong move on the manager's part. I suppose I could applaud Dusty for leaving Todd Walker in the game to lead off the 8th inning on Sunday night, but that was obviously the right NON decision.

 

I suppose Dusty could have taken Todd out of the game and let Neifi pinch hit for Walker. I don't think Neifi draws the walk in that instance, and now the inning is completely different. But, I don't think you could imagine how unglued this place would get if Neifi was ever brought in to pinch hit for Walker in a close game and the Cubs needed to get a guy on base.

 

And I get just as unglued each time I see a poor hitting guy at the top of the line up. Macias, Perez, Patterson, ENRIQUE WILSON. Doesn't matter who it is. Dusty is getting my wrath anytime he puts a sub .300 OBP at the top of the line up. I'm sorry if anyone doesn't like it.

 

I find it interesting that the St. Louis Cardinals are running Juan Encarnacion out there in the 2 spot everyday. Why, that's the same poor decision as running Neifi out there in the 2 hole. For that, LaRussa is not putting his team in the best position to win. And I'm actually quite fine with that. :D

[BigbadB]

People are hard on Dusty because they are passionate. That allows them to overlook the fact that most other managers do the same things as Dusty.

 

Bobby Cox uses Remlinger as a lefty specialist just the same as Dusty did, despite the splits. Cox will still be applauded as a better manager than Dusty and the similarities will be overlooked.

 

I watched the Brave's game last night - had to laugh when Cox brought Remmy out to start an inning where he would be facing Utley and Howard. He got Burrell out, then hit Utley and gave up a hit to Howard at which point Cox pulled him. No need for the left specialist any more with righties coming up! :lol:

 

And as great of a manager as Bobby Cox is, I'd be yelling at him through the tv for making a poor decision that hurts the team. Even great managers make poor decisions. If Cox keeps using Remmy like that all year long, Cox is in for a long year.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Rusch SS

Aramis 2b

Lee CF

Neifi C

Jones 3b

Pierre 1b

Cedeno RF

Blanco LF

Novoa SP

 

I'd put Ronny in CF and Lee in RF. :wink:

[RynoRules]

I hope that no one would proclaim that Dusty should be trusted based on less than a week of games. However, we shouldn't be "nitpicking" or digging around for things to criticize (such as throw away quotes) either. There has been some of that going on as well.

[Coach C]

Hmm.... 3 pages later, and still no response from bring stone back.

[stitchface]

the criticism of remlinger's use is off-base. yes, remmy had reverse splits - he still had better splits against lefties than anyone in the bullpen at that time though.

[Backtobanks]

Today's game was a disaster from the start, but Dusty shows why he's a lousy game manager. First he left Rusch in the game far too long. The first 6 hitters hit flyballs that averaged about 360 feet (2 were HRs). Secondly, he brings in the lefty Ohman to get through Griffey (L), Aurilia ®, and Dunn (L) and then decides to let Ohman pitch to Encarcion ® with the bases loaded and no outs with a right handed pitcher (Wuertz) warming up. After the grand slam HR, he leaves Ohman in to face another right-handed hitter (Kearns) who promptly hits another HR while right-handed Wuertz is still warming up. Obviously, it wasn't the Cubs' day, but Dusty was totally clueless with handling the pitching staff today.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Today's game was a disaster from the start, but Dusty shows why he's a lousy game manager. First he left Rusch in the game far too long. The first 6 hitters hit flyballs that averaged about 360 feet (2 were HRs). Secondly, he brings in the lefty Ohman to get through Griffey (L), Aurilia ®, and Dunn (L) and then decides to let Ohman pitch to Encarcion ® with the bases loaded and no outs with a right handed pitcher (Wuertz) warming up. After the grand slam HR, he leaves Ohman in to face another right-handed hitter (Kearns) who promptly hits another HR while right-handed Wuertz is still warming up. Obviously, it wasn't the Cubs' day, but Dusty was totally clueless with handling the pitching staff today.

 

Yeah, I didn't get that. If you are going to bring in Wuertz that inning, do it before Encarnacion hits. After the two HR's, Ohman had only thrown 12 pitches. It's pretty apparent we're done after that, so you might as well let him continue to throw to save the pen in case a future reliever gets knocked around.

[bring stone back]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

This is exactly what I'm saying....thank you. This is a prime example.

[Banedon]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

This is exactly what I'm saying....thank you. This is a prime example.

 

The Cubs lose, and you come back for the first response in the thread, not addressing many of the comments refuting your original post, but instead quoting the one person that's repeated the same argument you did in the face of many posts to the contrary. How's that for consistency?

[bring stone back]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

Are you kidding? Find a post where someone has said it is 100% unacceptable to swing at the first pitch in any situation. You won't be able to find one.

 

Of course we're going to complain if a batter makes an out on the first pitch. Making an out on the first pitch is essentially the most worthless at-bat possible. You should only swing at the first pitch if it's exactly what you're looking for and you're able to do something good with it. If you hit a homerun or get a hit, great, you didn't waste your one pitch at bat. But if you make an out (which Cubs players tend to do when they swing at the first pitch), you've had the worst at bat possible.

 

That's not true at all. You look at percentages, know tendencies of your opponent and be aggressive depending on the situation. What if Lee is up to bat with a runner on 2nd and no outs and flies out to deep center or hits a line drive right at someone....is that a worthless out? Absolutely not.

Edited April 12, 2006 by bring stone back

[bring stone back]

Not a whole lot of consistency around here, this is true. Everyone complains when a Cub hitter swings at a first pitch and flies out, but no one says a word when the same hitter swings at a first pitch and hits it out of the park.

 

This is exactly what I'm saying....thank you. This is a prime example.

 

The Cubs lose, and you come back for the first response in the thread, not addressing many of the comments refuting your original post, but instead quoting the one person that's repeated the same argument you did in the face of many posts to the contrary. How's that for consistency?

 

I was out of town and away from my computer. My sincerest apologies. How dare I start a thread criticizing people on this board and NOT be able to reply immediately.

Edited April 12, 2006 by bring stone back

[Ding Dong Johnson]

If you're going to be quoting everyone and their brother, please make sure you have BBCode turned on in your profile. :wink:

[bring stone back]

Baker is still a below average manager. If the Cubs win the World Series, he'll still be a below average manager.

 

Happy?

 

If the Cubs are winning, that probably means people are feeling positive, and feel that it's less necessary to call out Dusty. It doesn't mean he's improved or that he's good, but if the Cubs are winning, why ruin that good mood by reminding ourselves we have a pretty bad manager?

 

Baker is a bad manager?? Based on what?? His multiple manager of the year awards and playoff appearances.

Edited April 12, 2006 by bring stone back

[bring stone back]

If you're going to be quoting everyone and their brother, please make sure you have BBCode turned on in your profile. :wink:

 

I'm sorry, man. I visited this board to get information and only started to actually post and reply. I must admit, I'm new to message board protocol.

 

Thanks.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

If you're going to be quoting everyone and their brother, please make sure you have BBCode turned on in your profile. :wink:

 

I'm sorry, man. I visited this board to get information and only started to actually post and reply. I must admit, I'm new to message board protocol.

 

Thanks.

 

Not a problem, just trying to help. Carry on.

[bring stone back]

so they can tell the rest of us how bad they suck and how they were right all along.

 

...I see....

 

Is this similar to certain members waiting untill we have a few good games in a row to tell the "haters" how right they were all along?

 

No, this has to do with the Cubs losing three straight and hearing "see I told you so. I've been saying it all along. Dusty sucks, Hendry sucks, etc." Did Dusty suck when we were a couple outs from the world series in his first year?

 

Then, when Dusty makes what is deemed to be a good move and it looks like some of Hendry's retooling in the bullpen seems to be paying off I hear nothing.

 

What was even more pathetic was when I read on this board that Dusty is in his contract year so he's managing better the first five games of the year because he's looking for the big contract. Are you kidding me?