LaRussa's handling of minor leaguers

[K-Town]

Its simple K-Town, its called picking nits and blowing them up into giant flesh eating carnivores and thinking those make a definitive and irrefutable case. Unfortunately, its far from definitive and most assuredly not irrefutable.

 

I don't think K-Town needs any explanation on how to do any of that.

 

Tell me why I'm wrong here, instead of just taking cheap shots that any third-grader would be proud of.

[UK1679666180]

Since the late 90s there haven't been many good prospects to block, it's hard to add validity as far as a veteran bias, b/c the last decent hitting prospect was Pujols, who started very young.

 

Of course, Barton is the best prospect to come thru the pipeline since Pujols and he's now in Oak. b/c of a one-sided trade.

 

As far as pitching prospects, most have been run into the ground b/c of injury either at the major league level or in the minors. Haren is the best pitching prospect since Ankiel melted down and see Barton.

[K-Town]

Since the late 90s there haven't been many good prospects to block, it's hard to add validity as far as a veteran bias, b/c the last decent hitting prospect was Pujols, who started very young.

 

Of course, Barton is the best prospect to come thru the pipeline since Pujols and he's now in Oak. b/c of a one-sided trade.

 

As far as pitching prospects, most have been run into the ground b/c of injury either at the major league level or in the minors. Haren is the best pitching prospect since Ankiel melted down and see Barton.

 

No disagreements there. I think you make a good point...... the Cards haven't had alot of young players who have been worth a hoot to begin with. That's not Larussa's fault.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Since the late 90s there haven't been many good prospects to block, it's hard to add validity as far as a veteran bias, b/c the last decent hitting prospect was Pujols, who started very young.

 

Of course, Barton is the best prospect to come thru the pipeline since Pujols and he's now in Oak. b/c of a one-sided trade.

 

As far as pitching prospects, most have been run into the ground b/c of injury either at the major league level or in the minors. Haren is the best pitching prospect since Ankiel melted down and see Barton.

 

After what TLR\Duncan did to Alan Benes I think they changed their approach to working young pitchers (i.e. Ankiel, Haren, Reyes).

 

 

As for Barton, I think he's an overrated prospect:

 

- No natural position

- Lacks power

 

But yes, it was a one-sided trade.

[UK1679666180]

Barton is one of the best prospects in the game. He doesn't hit for power b/c of a flaw, just that his bat angle is geared towards line drives like Pujols had when he was at low-A. If Oakland wanted to, they could get him to adjust his swing for HRs at the expense of less contact.

 

The only frustrating thing was the BA mention that him not sticking at C was due to lack of effort.

[wolf stansson]

Can we please not bring up the Mulder - Haren/Calero/Barton trade. I feel like being in a good mood today. It's 72 outside, I didn't have any classes or work today, and I just had a good time playing basketball.

[jjgman21]

Since the late 90s there haven't been many good prospects to block, it's hard to add validity as far as a veteran bias, b/c the last decent hitting prospect was Pujols, who started very young.

Of course, Barton is the best prospect to come thru the pipeline since Pujols and he's now in Oak. b/c of a one-sided trade.

 

As far as pitching prospects, most have been run into the ground b/c of injury either at the major league level or in the minors. Haren is the best pitching prospect since Ankiel melted down and see Barton.

 

No disagreements there. I think you make a good point...... the Cards haven't had alot of young players who have been worth a hoot to begin with. That's not Larussa's fault.

 

the bolded part above is the exact point I made, but I added Polanco might have been blocked. so you agree with the statement generally, but only if the statement is unqualified and the one possible exception is left out of the equation, thus leaving LaRussa completely untainted.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Can we please not bring up the Mulder - Haren/Calero/Barton trade. I feel like being in a good mood today. It's 72 outside, I didn't have any classes or work today, and I just had a good time playing basketball.

 

I'm a Cubs fan. I'll bring up that trade whenever I please. At least give me that.

[K-Town]

Since the late 90s there haven't been many good prospects to block, it's hard to add validity as far as a veteran bias, b/c the last decent hitting prospect was Pujols, who started very young.

Of course, Barton is the best prospect to come thru the pipeline since Pujols and he's now in Oak. b/c of a one-sided trade.

 

As far as pitching prospects, most have been run into the ground b/c of injury either at the major league level or in the minors. Haren is the best pitching prospect since Ankiel melted down and see Barton.

 

No disagreements there. I think you make a good point...... the Cards haven't had alot of young players who have been worth a hoot to begin with. That's not Larussa's fault.

 

the bolded part above is the exact point I made, but I added Polanco might have been blocked. so you agree with the statement generally, but only if the statement is unqualified and the one possible exception is left out of the equation, thus leaving LaRussa completely untainted.

 

What made Polanco a good prospect?? He only had an OPS above .700 one time in his minor league career, and he got his shot with the big club right after that. I don't care if you're Tony Larussa or Bobby Cox or Dusty Baker......... if a guy can't do better than a .700 OPS in the minor leagues, you don't give him full playing time at the big level.

[UK1679666180]

What position did Paquette block Polanco at? Polanco is a middle infielder who has the ability to play 3B.

 

Paquette only played 86G at 3B and 93 at 1B and the OF. Polanco only played 35G at 3B (which left a window of 41 games). But Polanco played 80 games at SS/2B.

 

I don't consider Paquette getting more ABs over Polanco at 3B as a case of veteran bias.

 

Ponson over Reyes, call it veteran bias or whatever, it's just a bad move.

[K-Town]

What position did Paquette block Polanco at? Polanco is a middle infielder who has the ability to play 3B.

 

Paquette only played 86G at 3B and 93 at 1B and the OF. Polanco only played 35G at 3B (which left a window of 41 games). But Polanco played 80 games at SS/2B.

 

I don't consider Paquette getting more ABs over Polanco at 3B as a case of veteran bias.

 

Ponson over Reyes, call it veteran bias or whatever, it's just a bad move.

 

You think, UK? I'm still uncertain. You don't buy the theory that Reyes is working on a new pitch?

[wolf stansson]

Can we please not bring up the Mulder - Haren/Calero/Barton trade. I feel like being in a good mood today. It's 72 outside, I didn't have any classes or work today, and I just had a good time playing basketball.

 

I'm a Cubs fan. I'll bring up that trade whenever I please. At least give me that.

Fine! Dontrelle and I just hope you enjoyed your time with Matt Clement!

[UK1679666180]

What position did Paquette block Polanco at? Polanco is a middle infielder who has the ability to play 3B.

 

Paquette only played 86G at 3B and 93 at 1B and the OF. Polanco only played 35G at 3B (which left a window of 41 games). But Polanco played 80 games at SS/2B.

 

I don't consider Paquette getting more ABs over Polanco at 3B as a case of veteran bias.

 

Ponson over Reyes, call it veteran bias or whatever, it's just a bad move.

 

You think, UK? I'm still uncertain. You don't buy the theory that Reyes is working on a new pitch?

 

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with his 4 seam FB to begin it's a plus pitch as it is. Duncan's love of a two-seamer shouldn't restrict Reyes at this point.

 

You put him at AAA & his throwing pattern would likely mirror what he'd do at the majors.

 

Regardless, of where he's at, a pitcher will go back to what works for him and for Reyes his best pitch is his 4 seam FB as he can locate it where he wants.

 

He began working in a 2 seam FB last year. If I was Duncan I'd let him keep his 4 seam FB and let him cont. to improve his change which has promise to be a plus pitch.

 

He doesn't need the 2 seam FB as much as he needs the change.

[SouthSideRyan]

Can we please not bring up the Mulder - Haren/Calero/Barton trade. I feel like being in a good mood today. It's 72 outside, I didn't have any classes or work today, and I just had a good time playing basketball.

 

I'm a Cubs fan. I'll bring up that trade whenever I please. At least give me that.

Fine! Dontrelle and I just hope you enjoyed your time with Matt Clement!

 

As a preemptive strike against Lou Brock I'll say Adam Kennedy won a WS ring and Edmonds didn't :)

[wolf stansson]

Can we please not bring up the Mulder - Haren/Calero/Barton trade. I feel like being in a good mood today. It's 72 outside, I didn't have any classes or work today, and I just had a good time playing basketball.

 

I'm a Cubs fan. I'll bring up that trade whenever I please. At least give me that.

Fine! Dontrelle and I just hope you enjoyed your time with Matt Clement!

 

As a preemptive strike against Lou Brock I'll say Adam Kennedy won a WS ring and Edmonds didn't :)

I try not to use ammo created 20 or so years before my birth, but I can't speak for any of the other Cards fans.

[SouthSideRyan]

Can we please not bring up the Mulder - Haren/Calero/Barton trade. I feel like being in a good mood today. It's 72 outside, I didn't have any classes or work today, and I just had a good time playing basketball.

 

I'm a Cubs fan. I'll bring up that trade whenever I please. At least give me that.

Fine! Dontrelle and I just hope you enjoyed your time with Matt Clement!

 

As a preemptive strike against Lou Brock I'll say Adam Kennedy won a WS ring and Edmonds didn't :)

I try not to use ammo created 20 or so years before my birth, but I can't speak for any of the other Cards fans.

 

Good point, it's not there's a lack of ammo from your life.

[Inthecards]

Can we please not bring up the Mulder - Haren/Calero/Barton trade. I feel like being in a good mood today. It's 72 outside, I didn't have any classes or work today, and I just had a good time playing basketball.

 

I'm a Cubs fan. I'll bring up that trade whenever I please. At least give me that.

Fine! Dontrelle and I just hope you enjoyed your time with Matt Clement!

 

As a preemptive strike against Lou Brock I'll say Adam Kennedy won a WS ring and Edmonds didn't :)

 

 

Let's just change that from didn't to YET :wink:

[vaball]

I'm still pissed that we traded Coco Crisp to the Indians. I mean, the name alone....

 

Mark Mulder better win 20 this year :evil:

[wolf stansson]

I'm still pissed that we traded Coco Crisp to the Indians

Come on now, Chuck Finley was TOTALLY worth it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm still pissed that we traded Coco Crisp to the Indians

Come on now, Chuck Finley was TOTALLY worth it.

 

Chuck Finley lives down the street from my brother.

[UK1679666180]

FWIW, Crisp was the PTBNL. I believe Garcia was the most valued player Clev. rec'd at that time.

[jjgman21]

FWIW, Crisp was the PTBNL. I believe Garcia was the most valued player Clev. rec'd at that time.

 

while I don't recall the specifics of that trade or who was valued, PTBNL status does not determine who was the key player in a trade. I'm sure that the Pirates weren't thinking Jose Hernandez was the most valued player in the Aram deal.

 

another point about comments in this thread. I used to like using Steve Carlton as a retort to Lou Brock accusations. but recently I discovered some way-way-back information. how'd Jack Taylor and Larry McLean work out for ya Card fans?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brownmo01.shtml

 

what's especially great about it is the way Taylor had some of his worst years with the Cards, then the Cubs got him back, he regained his form going 12-3 and was an integral part in winning the pennant and achieving the best win % in baseball history.

[UK1679666180]

Garcia was the main name involved in the trade, Crisp had value as he was in the Cards top 30, but Garcia had more value at the time than Crisp.

[Catman61]

another point about comments in this thread. I used to like using Steve Carlton as a retort to Lou Brock accusations.

 

FWIW, Carlton isn't a very good retort as the situations are not similar.

[wolf stansson]

another point about comments in this thread. I used to like using Steve Carlton as a retort to Lou Brock accusations.

 

FWIW, Carlton isn't a very good retort as the situations are not similar.

A bad trade is a bad trade. And that was a HORRIBLE trade.