Baby and Bathwater

[louisvillecub]

No disrespect, however every year the Hendry tries to fix the bullpen without much success. The side effect of coarse is Dusty is “forced” to overwork his starters. I think it's one of his most overlooked failings.

 

Bullpen pitchers are hard to gauge. It's one of the most unpredictable things in baseball. Hendry has tried to go after solid bullpen people in the past, and it just didn't work out. You'd be hard-pressed to find people that were against the Hawkins or Remlinger signings at the time, as a few examples.

 

And they would have fared better had Dusty used them according to their strengths.

[XZero771679666304]

No disrespect, however every year the Hendry tries to fix the bullpen without much success. The side effect of coarse is Dusty is “forced” to overwork his starters. I think it's one of his most overlooked failings.

 

Bullpen pitchers are hard to gauge. It's one of the most unpredictable things in baseball. Hendry has tried to go after solid bullpen people in the past, and it just didn't work out. You'd be hard-pressed to find people that were against the Hawkins or Remlinger signings at the time, as a few examples.

 

2004 is good example. Farnsworth coming off a great year, Mercker coming off a great year, JOBO and the best setup man over the previous couple years in Hawkins, and Remlinger coming off a good year. That pen looked as good as it gets, and look how it turned out.

 

You can't fault Hendry for that.

[XZero771679666304]

No disrespect, however every year the Hendry tries to fix the bullpen without much success. The side effect of coarse is Dusty is “forced” to overwork his starters. I think it's one of his most overlooked failings.

 

Bullpen pitchers are hard to gauge. It's one of the most unpredictable things in baseball. Hendry has tried to go after solid bullpen people in the past, and it just didn't work out. You'd be hard-pressed to find people that were against the Hawkins or Remlinger signings at the time, as a few examples.

 

And they would have fared better had Dusty used them according to their strengths.

 

Hawkins is the prime example of that. He could have been a great asset, but Dusty single-handedly ruined him.

[RynoRules]

For all the praise he deserves for putting together the pitching staff, he deserves just as much criticism for putting the success of the team squarely on the staff.

 

He had an opportunity this offseason to significantly upgrade the offense, and he didn't. The offense now isn't strong enough to overcome a mediocre performance from our pitching staff. Hendry deserves the blame for this.

 

Additionally as good as the staff is when healthy, the bullpen additions from this offseason were completely overpaid for.

 

A fair and balanced assessment. Nice job.

[Gunned]

I don't see how one could separate Dusty and Hendry that easily, as if they're two independent entities.

 

Okay, technically they are two separate entities.

 

But Hendry hired Dusty, he has stuck by Dusty and will probably continue to do so. He also has made some of the signings that allowed Dusty to misuse veterans. The two work together closely, and I'm sure there is a lot of collaboration, given their similar baseball philosophies. A poster on another message board has combined them into one single persona: "Dundry." I like it.

 

The Billy Beane Theory has a GM working separately and sort of lording over the manager -- that's clearly not the case here. Which means that if the Cubs fail again this season, I think both of them should be shown the door.

[bc2k]

I do admit that Hendry hasn't done as well of a job assembling an offense as good as his pitching. I think this offseason's Neifi re-signing--at the price--was a horrible move and the years he gave to Jones was a bad move too.

 

But with a top field manager, Hendry's teams would be perennial playoff contenders. OTOH, he deserves blame for not finding and hiring that top field manager.

[rocket]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the title of this thread?

[XZero771679666304]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the title of this thread?

 

throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a figure of speech, analagous to throwing out Hendry with Baker.

[rocket]

I've never heard that expression before.

[XZero771679666304]

I've never heard that expression before.

 

We learn something new everyday, I guess.

[Outshined_One]

I don't necessarily think it's the offense that Cubs fans should fault Jim Hendry for. He's taken chances on a number of guys who ended up being quite productive with this team. I think the Pierre trade was a desperation move while the Jock Jones acquisition was boneheaded, given Jock's history.

 

Hendry's biggest flaw with this offense has been building the bench. I'm convinced that he doesn't go out and get the best guys for the bench, but instead relies on his manager when it comes to making those acquisitions. Moreover, he's putting these bench guys in a position for his manager to use and abuse them. He should know by now that any talented young player worth a lick will rot on the bench while the terrible veteran gets playing time over him. Let's face it, we all took a sharp breath when Marquis Grissom was brought in this year. Names like Eric Karros, Lenny Harris, Jose Macias, Damian Jackson, Neifi Perez, Troy O'Leary, and a number of others send chills down the spine of hardened Cubs fans.

 

The bullpen has also been spotty, but I think you can put some of the blame on a manager who didn't know what he was doing. Mike Remlinger should have never, ever, ever been used as a LOOGY. Everyone and their mother knew that LaTroy Hawkins couldn't close games except for Dusty. Instead of doing the relatively smart thing and put Dempster in at closer with Hawkins setting up, he did the dumb thing by wasting both guys in roles that did not suit their relative talents.

 

We can fault Hendry for giving Baker these tools to fail with and not Dusty-proofing the team, yes. But, I think the failures of this team have to fall on the manager.

[UK1679666180]

The Cubs have the winning formula for the playoffs. They need to realize it with good health.

 

That depends on two players who are injured/not ready to pitch at the start of the season, missed a significant of time last year, and plays for a manager who lived off a extreme workload of those two players.

 

If this team is dependent on the health of Wood and Prior (which I think it is), Baker is a poor captain for that ship.

[TB_11]

I don't see how one could separate Dusty and Hendry that easily, as if they're two independent entities.

 

Okay, technically they are two separate entities.

 

But Hendry hired Dusty, he has stuck by Dusty and will probably continue to do so. He also has made some of the signings that allowed Dusty to misuse veterans. The two work together closely, and I'm sure there is a lot of collaboration, given their similar baseball philosophies. A poster on another message board has combined them into one single persona: "Dundry." I like it.

 

The Billy Beane Theory has a GM working separately and sort of lording over the manager -- that's clearly not the case here. Which means that if the Cubs fail again this season, I think both of them should be shown the door.

 

Actually I think this tends to get a bit lost in all of the criticism of Hendry. Most Cubs fans (at least on this board) are pretty fed up with Dusty, but Hendry has kept his faith in him. Dusty deserves bashing for things like letting Neifi get ~600 PAs last year, and Hendry deserves bashing for sticking with a coach who would give Neifi ~600 PAs.

[davecubsfan]

I want em both gone. This is the first year I can remember that I'm "meh" about the Cubs. I really could care less about baseball this year since I already know the outcome which is no playoffs, no World Series, and more than likely a 3rd or 4th place finish in the division (depending on if Sheets is okay in Milwaukee) Hendry is a great GM during the season and has made some great deadline deals, but it's almost like he keeps his head in the sand from August until June or so.

[UncleDon]

Management will look better if a couple of position players (Pie, Harvey, Patterson) develop.

[goonys evil twin]

If the Cubs fail to make the playoffs this year, I hope the public doesn't try to push Hendry out the door with John Baker.

 

More failure by Hendry's team has to result in his removal from duty. He put together the team. It's failed under his watch, if it keeps failing he is responsible.

[Roast]

I think we have been over this topic before. And as far as i'm concerned, hendry is good, at best.

 

He has made some spectacular trades:

- Aram & Lofton for Bobby Hill & King K

-Karros & Grudz for Hundley

-NOmar & Murton for Agon, beltran, and Jones

 

But he has done some not so great things:

-The Farns trade

-Overall Return of Sosa trade

-Continued to allow macias to be on this team

-Signed Neifi for how long, for HOW much!?!

-Jaque Jones for 3 years?!

-Questionable handling of minor leaguers

-Not even ATTEMPTING to go after Brian Giles

-$100Mil payroll...4th place.

 

He should be held just as responsible as dusty. If we dont win this year, he should be on the curb w/ baker.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I don't think it should be overlooked that we gave up our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks for Eyre, Howry, and Jones. Hooray!

 

Also, Ohman > Rusch

[Ding Dong Johnson]

This is the first year I can remember that I'm "meh" about the Cubs.

 

You must be 3 or 4 years old.

[sethuel1]

This is the first year I can remember that I'm "meh" about the Cubs.

 

You must be 3 or 4 years old.

thread winnar!

[neely crenshaw]

you are kidding right? the strongest pitching staff?

he has banked our seasons on huge question marks!

he has done nothing but draft prior which was a gift from minnesota.

i have no problem with taking chances. i certainly understand dempster,williamson,foxx, and miller. very small cost and possible huge reward. if only dempster works out they were all worth the gamble.

the problem is that with all of the injuries on the staff- these are the only types of moves he has made. you can not bank your entire furture on unknowns! he has!

he has missed badly on o.

we had very little to add after 2004 and he did NOTHING..

we have had the highest payroll in the national league and have not come close in 2 years. anywhere else his head would have already rolled!

the yankees have talked about torre's job being in jeopardy and they have made the playoffs for what, like 60 straight years? imagine if the boss woke up behind the freakin' brewers?

throw out the baby, the bathwater and the whole tub!...

re-do the bathroom if that's what it takes!

[Roast]

you are kidding right? the strongest pitching staff?

he has banked our seasons on huge question marks!

he has done nothing but draft prior which was a gift from minnesota.

i have no problem with taking chances. i certainly understand dempster,williamson,foxx, and miller. very small cost and possible huge reward. if only dempster works out they were all worth the gamble.

the problem is that with all of the injuries on the staff- these are the only types of moves he has made. you can not bank your entire furture on unknowns! he has!

he has missed badly on o.

we had very little to add after 2004 and he did NOTHING..

we have had the highest payroll in the national league and have not come close in 2 years. anywhere else his head would have already rolled!

the yankees have talked about torre's job being in jeopardy and they have made the playoffs for what, like 60 straight years? imagine if the boss woke up behind the freakin' brewers?

throw out the baby, the bathwater and the whole tub!...

re-do the bathroom if that's what it takes!

 

 

Dude, capitalization and paragraph format. All the cool kids are doing it.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

The Brewers are going to have a pretty solid team this year...