All you Dusty bashers are misinformed

[Sec 511 Die-hard]

I can't believe the criticism that some people give Dusty for the things he says to the media. What the hell do you expect him to say, anyway? People got mad a few years ago because Dusty wouldn't call out his players for bone-headed plays (Alou running the bases, Wood/Zambrano throwing a temper tantrum) Why do you think player's love him? Because he is honest with them, and cover's up for them in the media.

 

If you want to judge Dusty on anything, judge him on how his team performs. I've been a Cubs fan since before many of you were born and I can tell you that never in my lifetime has the Cubs had a coach that was so successful that he changed the expectations overnight. Before Dusty came, the Cubs had not had back-to-back winning seasons in 35 years!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't know what you Cubs fans expect of the guy but his style is what it is. And you know what - he's the winningest skipper the National League has seen besides Bobby Cox in the last 20 years.

[abuck1220]

If you want to judge Dusty on anything, judge him on how his team performs.

 

ok. his team had a 100 mil+ payroll and finished in fourth place and with a losing record.

[katway]

Maybe because people expect the manager of a baseball team to construct lineups and make in-game decisions in a way that gives his team the best chance to win. Dusty just doesn't do that:

• 
  1. When Derrek Lee was tearing the cover off the ball in the first half of the season, Dusty was the only guy that could stop him. Dusty wasted Lee's amazing performance by having Corey and Neifi hitting in front of Lee at the top of the order. It doesn't take much to imagine the other players on the club who would have gotten on base more often than Corey and Neifi.
   
  2. The whole LaTroy Hawkins as closer debacle. Dusty shouldn't have tried to use Hawkins as closer at all following 2004. Hendry wanted Dempster to close, but, instead, Dusty had him starting. And why put Rusch in the bullpen and Dempster in the rotation when Rusch was so good as a starter for the Cubs last year and Dempster is returning from Tommy John? It just doesn't make sense.
   
  3. Dusty makes poor field decisions as far as double switches, replacement fielders, righty lefty matchups where he would bring in Remlinger to face lefties when Remlinger's career stats always indicated he was not good for the role and better against right handed batters.
   
  4. Dusty has a real problem letting the rookies play. Given the Cubs situation with injuries, it would be nice to see what the younger players can do rather than Perez and/or Macias daily. At least playing the rookies would give the Cubs organization an idea about what they'd have the next year and beyond.
   
  5. In addition, Dusty, who was known as a players manager when he came to the Cubs, has done a poor job in many situations -- such as sosa, Walker, etc... He also plays favorites with who he will protect and who he will call out in the press.
  

 

As far as the assertion that Dusty is a winner just below Cobby Cox, I don't agree. A winning manager is able to win regardless of injuries because he knows how to put people in the right situation for success. The Braves have had to deal with many, many injuries this season and in years past, but every year they end up at the top of the division. I think that makes Bobby Cox a winner. Dusty Baker has had some good teams, but when it comes time to make decisions about replacing injured players or helping a slumping player he fails.

 

At the heart of it all, it just doesn't seem that Dusty Baker is giving them the best chance to win. That's all people ask. Put the best lineup on the field. To some extent, Hendry's job has become to Dusty proof the lineup. It shouldn't work that way.

[Bgbird68]

How many titles has the "great" Dusty Baker won?

[frostwyrm]

I can tell you that never in my lifetime has the Cubs had a coach that was so successful that he changed the expectations overnight.

 

I think kickass starting pitching and a greatly expanded payroll affected expectations just a tiny bit too. Don't you?

[CubinNY]

My prediction is that Dusty doesn't make it out of this season as a Cubs manager and this thread get locked before 10 am EST.

 

Dusty bashers of the world unite!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I have no interest in re-stating why I'm not enamored with Baker. I think I've listed those 136 times already.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I too like toothpicks.

[rawaction]

You have low expectations. The Cubs have had one of the top 3 payrolls in the NL the entire time Dusty has been in Chicago. Back-to-back winning seasons means very little. Especially, when one of those seasons featured a playoff collapse (not Dusty's fault), followed by a season with a complete collapse the last 2 weeks, followed by a sub-.500 season. Dusty has a reputation for not using young position players....and the only young players have been driven out of town (Patterson, Hill, Choi albeit justifiably). He has a reputation for abusing pitchers.....and Prior and Wood have suffered problems from apparant overuse.

[CUBZ99]

You have low expectations. The Cubs have had one of the top 3 payrolls in the NL the entire time Dusty has been in Chicago. Back-to-back winning seasons means very little. Especially, when one of those seasons featured a playoff collapse (not Dusty's fault), followed by a season with a complete collapse the last 2 weeks, followed by a sub-.500 season. Dusty has a reputation for not using young position players....and the only young players have been driven out of town (Patterson, Hill, Choi albeit justifiably). He has a reputation for abusing pitchers.....and Prior and Wood have suffered problems from apparant overuse.

 

It has been nice seeing the expectations for the Cubs rise since Dusty became manager and the 2003 season was one of the wildest rides in Cubs history. Sure Dusty has his problems, but I'm not ready to give up on him this early in the season.

 

Couple things that I've noticed about this year as compared to last:

 

1. Dusty is actually backing some young players (Murton, Cedeno, Marshall). There was an article the other day, I think it was written by Bruce, about the Cubs farm system and how this year Hendry decided to let the kids play in ST instead of invited a bunch of AAA roster fillers. The article made some good points about the overhyping of the Cubs farm system in the past and that how this year the Cubs position prospects actually have performed decently when given the chance.

 

2. It appears that Dusty actually realizes that Neifi is not a top of the order hitter, or an everyday player. Sure Dusty would never say that in that manner, but it is pretty apparent so far from Neifi's usage that he is viewed as a utility, defensive specialist IF.

 

The other thing that I like about Dusty is that he wants to win the World Series in Chicago, as much or more than we (the fans) do. Dusty does a good job at BSing sometimes, but there is no denying that he cannot stand to lose. I know that you could say the same for everyother manager in the league, but Dusty, more than any other Cubs manager displays that persona.

 

With all that said, I'm going to wish him well this year and hope the Cubs have a great season. I think he realizes this is likely his last chance to straighten things out.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

2. It appears that Dusty actually realizes that Neifi is not a top of the order hitter

 

How so? This is from the 3/20 game thread:

Lineups

 

Cubs

Hairston, CF

Perez, 3B

Walker, 2B

Jones, RF

Barrett, C

Mabry, 1B

Murton, LF

Cedeno, SS

Guzman, P

[rjchapma]

If you want to judge Dusty on anything, judge him on how his team performs.

 

ok. his team had a 100 mil+ payroll and finished in fourth place and with a losing record.

 

enough said

[RynoRules]

I can't believe the criticism that some people give Dusty for the things he says to the media. What the hell do you expect him to say, anyway? People got mad a few years ago because Dusty wouldn't call out his players for bone-headed plays (Alou running the bases, Wood/Zambrano throwing a temper tantrum) Why do you think player's love him? Because he is honest with them, and cover's up for them in the media.

 

If you want to judge Dusty on anything, judge him on how his team performs. I've been a Cubs fan since before many of you were born and I can tell you that never in my lifetime has the Cubs had a coach that was so successful that he changed the expectations overnight. Before Dusty came, the Cubs had not had back-to-back winning seasons in 35 years!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't know what you Cubs fans expect of the guy but his style is what it is. And you know what - he's the winningest skipper the National League has seen besides Bobby Cox in the last 20 years.

 

As Cubs fan since age four (1980 was my first game; I've followed them closely ever since), I appreciate your sentiments. That said, Dusty deserves a heaping dose of crticisim for how he has handled several situations, some of which are noted above (I don't agree with all of them. For instance, the notion that he rode Prior and Wood into the ground in 03' still bothers me b/c I've never seen proof of that hypothesis, and Prior really hasn't had serious arm trouble (pending the outcome of his current issues). Moreover, does anyone remember who was available in the 'pen in those games? Most often it was guys like Veres and Guthries. Ouch.).

[dalgreen]

Although I criticize Baker for a lot of things, I do think some things he gets criticized might be overblown. In SF, he was criticized for playing vets even though they had no real good young, talented position players. Since Baker's been gone, they still haven't any good, young position players. In Chicago, Murton, Patterson and Choi are the only young guys I was enamored with. I remember when fans were mad because Baker wouldn't sit Patterson at times last year or during a slump he had in 2004. I think a lot of us hyped up our young prospects who just may not be that good (see Kelton, Dubois, Choi, Jackson). One of the main reasons I like Murton is because he's not a product of the Cubs farm system. I am looking forward to seeing Cedeno this year,too. I can say this seems to be the only year where Baker got the team that he wanted, one with speed, a lead-off guy and a good bullpen. He seems to have no excuses this year. In the past, I gave him the benefit of the doubt because of the crappy roster he had to work with. But let's not pretend that he's just been an "unlucky" manager. He's made some pretty awful decisions in the past.

[badger1679666666]

2. It appears that Dusty actually realizes that Neifi is not a top of the order hitter

 

How so? This is from the 3/20 game thread:

Lineups

 

Cubs

Hairston, CF

Perez, 3B

Walker, 2B

Jones, RF

Barrett, C

Mabry, 1B

Murton, LF

Cedeno, SS

Guzman, P

 

You can't be serious. You just CAN'T.

[Derwood]

If back-to-back winning seasons is enough to make you happy, rock on then. Notice he failed to make it 3 in a row despite a triple crown candidate on the team.

[Chris]

If you want to judge Dusty on anything, judge him on how his team performs.

 

ok. his team had a 100 mil+ payroll and finished in fourth place and with a losing record.

 

In '04 his team lost 7 of the last 9 games to end the season 3 games behind Houston for the WC.

[BigbadB]

2. It appears that Dusty actually realizes that Neifi is not a top of the order hitter

 

How so? This is from the 3/20 game thread:

Lineups

 

Cubs

Hairston, CF

Perez, 3B

Walker, 2B

Jones, RF

Barrett, C

Mabry, 1B

Murton, LF

Cedeno, SS

Guzman, P

 

You can't be serious. You just CAN'T.

 

Does this help you understand our chicken little syndrome a little better? :D

 

Oh, and that line up ranks right up there among the worst I've ever seen. Let's hope he doesn't actually use that one during the regular season. Let's hope he's just getting it out of his system now.

[CUBZ99]

2. It appears that Dusty actually realizes that Neifi is not a top of the order hitter

 

How so? This is from the 3/20 game thread:

Lineups

 

Cubs

Hairston, CF

Perez, 3B

Walker, 2B

Jones, RF

Barrett, C

Mabry, 1B

Murton, LF

Cedeno, SS

Guzman, P

 

You can't be serious. You just CAN'T.

 

Does this help you understand our chicken little syndrome a little better? :D

 

Oh, and that line up ranks right up there among the worst I've ever seen. Let's hope he doesn't actually use that one during the regular season. Let's hope he's just getting it out of his system now.

 

Funny that you quoted Bruce's lineup, but left out Bruce's comments later in the thread saying don't read too much into Neifi batting second because it was just one/two games and Dusty did not see Neifi as a 2 hitter.

 

I think you are right, the Chicken Little theory may have some credence.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Funny that you quoted Bruce's lineup, but left out Bruce's comments later in the thread saying don't read too much into Neifi batting second because it was just one/two games and Dusty did not see Neifi as a 2 hitter.

 

I think you are right, the Chicken Little theory may have some credence.

 

Because Dusty would have the sense to not bat Neifi near the top of the lineup for any period of time? The guy had 390 plate appearances at the 1-2 spot last year, 274 of them hitting second(exact same number as Todd Walker).

 

If you don't think Dusty is going to do that again, that's fine. But labelling people as paranoid because Dusty has done it before and is doing it again(albeit in spring training) is unnecessary and ultimatlely wrong.

[CUBZ99]

Funny that you quoted Bruce's lineup, but left out Bruce's comments later in the thread saying don't read too much into Neifi batting second because it was just one/two games and Dusty did not see Neifi as a 2 hitter.

 

I think you are right, the Chicken Little theory may have some credence.

 

Because Dusty would have the sense to not bat Neifi near the top of the lineup for any period of time? The guy had 390 plate appearances at the 1-2 spot last year, 274 of them hitting second(exact same number as Todd Walker).

 

If you don't think Dusty is going to do that again, that's fine. But labelling people as paranoid because Dusty has done it before and is doing it again(albeit in spring training) is unnecessary and ultimatlely wrong.

 

I'm just pointing out that it may be a little premature to get on Dusty based on one spring training lineup. Especially one in which half of the lineup was backups.

 

I have no doubt that Dusty will make stupid lineups this year. But to jump on one/two spring training lineups is a little neurotic. Especially since the majority of ST neifi has been batting at the bottom of the order.

[BigbadB]

[Does this help you understand our chicken little syndrome a little better? :D

 

Oh, and that line up ranks right up there among the worst I've ever seen. Let's hope he doesn't actually use that one during the regular season. Let's hope he's just getting it out of his system now.

 

Funny that you quoted Bruce's lineup, but left out Bruce's comments later in the thread saying don't read too much into Neifi batting second because it was just one/two games and Dusty did not see Neifi as a 2 hitter.

 

I think you are right, the Chicken Little theory may have some credence.

 

#1) I was being facetious about the Chicken Little Syndrome. Note the smiley face.

 

#2) I didn't quote the game thread, someone else did. I never saw the whole thread, so I have no idea what Bruce wrote. What Bruce wrote does not change the fact that Neifi Perez hit 2nd in this game. Period.

 

#3) Even if I saw the whole thread, that is still one of the worst line ups I have ever seen put together. Did you miss where I said I hope that he doesn't use it during the regular season and that I hope he's just getting it out of his system?

 

I don't think my final comments should give people the impression that I think that's the way Dusty will run this team in 2006. Read my post again and show me how I made a sky is falling post.

[JGalt73]

For instance, the notion that he rode Prior and Wood into the ground in 03' still bothers me b/c I've never seen proof of that hypothesis, and Prior really hasn't had serious arm trouble (pending the outcome of his current issues). Moreover, does anyone remember who was available in the 'pen in those games? Most often it was guys like Veres and Guthries. Ouch.).

 

Cause and effect may be impossible to prove, but... in 2003, your leaders in Pitcher Abuse Points (BP's metric on high pitch counts):

 

1) Javier Vasquez,

2) Kerry Wood, age 26

3) Livan Hernandez

4) Mark Prior, age 23

 

Who in the entire league threw the highest average number of pitches per game in 2003?

 

1) Mark Prior [113.4]

2) Kerry Wood [110.7]

[rawaction]

Funny that you quoted Bruce's lineup, but left out Bruce's comments later in the thread saying don't read too much into Neifi batting second because it was just one/two games and Dusty did not see Neifi as a 2 hitter.

 

I think you are right, the Chicken Little theory may have some credence.

 

Because Dusty would have the sense to not bat Neifi near the top of the lineup for any period of time? The guy had 390 plate appearances at the 1-2 spot last year, 274 of them hitting second(exact same number as Todd Walker).

 

If you don't think Dusty is going to do that again, that's fine. But labelling people as paranoid because Dusty has done it before and is doing it again(albeit in spring training) is unnecessary and ultimatlely wrong.

 

I'm just pointing out that it may be a little premature to get on Dusty based on one spring training lineup. Especially one in which half of the lineup was backups.

 

I have no doubt that Dusty will make stupid lineups this year. But to jump on one/two spring training lineups is a little neurotic. Especially since the majority of ST neifi has been batting at the bottom of the order.

 

I agree. Jacque Jones isn't gonna bat 3rd or 4th. Mabry isn't gonna hit 5th. He has a history of batting Neifi near the top, but he's said he isn't gonna do that when the season starts. Bruce said he isn't gonna do it. It's not that serious in games that don't count.

[CUBZ99]

#1) I was being facetious about the Chicken Little Syndrome. Note the smiley face.

 

#2) I didn't quote the game thread, someone else did. I never saw the whole thread, so I have no idea what Bruce wrote. What Bruce wrote does not change the fact that Neifi Perez hit 2nd in this game. Period.

 

#3) Even if I saw the whole thread, that is still one of the worst line ups I have ever seen put together. Did you miss where I said I hope that he doesn't use it during the regular season and that I hope he's just getting it out of his system?

 

I don't think my final comments should give people the impression that I think that's the way Dusty will run this team in 2006. Read my post again and show me how I made a sky is falling post.

 

I never said you did. I was poking fun at your comment (very poorly apparently). :)