Good bye Sammy Thread

[The Voice of Reason]

Nice objective summary by Fox's Rosenthal:

 

 

For now, the enduring images of Sosa will be different in each mind's eye. Some will recall his glory days with the Cubs, his home-run hop, his joyous sprints to right field, his dugout pantomimes for the cameras.

 

Others will remember his less charming side, his corked bat, his clubhouse boombox, his early departure from Wrigley Field on the final day of the 2004 season. Still others will recall his swift, stunning fall from grace, his feeble appearance before Congress, his loss of bat speed in '05.

 

It's too soon to capture his legacy. Too soon to assign his place in history. Too soon to make sense of the Steroid Era and all that it involved.

[CDBears1259]

Nice objective summary by Fox's Rosenthal:

 

 

For now, the enduring images of Sosa will be different in each mind's eye. Some will recall his glory days with the Cubs, his home-run hop, his joyous sprints to right field, his dugout pantomimes for the cameras.

 

Others will remember his less charming side, his corked bat, his clubhouse boombox, his early departure from Wrigley Field on the final day of the 2004 season. Still others will recall his swift, stunning fall from grace, his feeble appearance before Congress, his loss of bat speed in '05.

 

It's too soon to capture his legacy. Too soon to assign his place in history. Too soon to make sense of the Steroid Era and all that it involved.

 

Finally, a little perspective from someone in the media.

[ConstableRabbit]

I love Sammy so much. He was my sports hero second only to Michael Jordan. I always felt that the things he did wrong were exaggerated greatly by the fans and although they were, in the end, not right, he didn't deserve the flak he ended up getting for them.

 

Obviously, there are countless memories, but the one memory that stands out for me is his game-tying homerun in the 2003 NLCS, game 1. I mean, this is what fans dream of. Team down 2 bottom of the ninth, 2 outs, man on second, playoffs, fans on their feet going crazy, your slugger's up. BOOM! onto waveland avenue. I still get chills thinking about it even though we lost the game. That was for all those critics who said Sosa wasn't a big-time playoff-type player.

 

I'm so upset I won't get to see him play ever again. :cry:

[Roast]

one day " 21" should be flying down the right field line. he was the most productive cub player ever, like him or not.

 

he gave his freaking heart and soul to this franchise for 13 years. he charged out of that dugout into right field for probably most of the life-spans of many here on this board.

 

i understand that there will be ingrates everywhere, you just can't please some people, no matter what kind of show you put on. make no mistake--sammy gave it all to the fans. he deserves better.

 

I'm pretty sure thats my favorite post of yours. ever.

[jjgman21]

- Cub pitchers that made more than 15 relief appearances: Mike Fyhrie, Ron Mahay, Manny Aybar, Dave Weathers, Courtney Duncan, Juan Cruz, Felix Heredia, Todd Van Poppel, Kyle Farnsworth, Jeff Fassero and Tom Gordon. Of these, only three (Mahay, Farnsworth and Van Poppel) managed sub-3.00 ERAs, every Cub reliever that pitched 20 innings or more allowed at least 4 home runs

 

 

I don't mean to detract from your main point, but there were three reasons the Cubs made a run in 2001, Leiber/Wood, Sammy Sosa, and the bullpen. your assessment here is unfair and does not due justice to the job that Farns, Fassero and Flash did that year turning most games into 6 inning affairs. Van Poppel was awesome as well, and Weathers gave some good innings after Baylor wore most of these guys out by the end of July.

 

Also, Juan Cruz did not pitch any relief in 2001.

[Andy]

I love Sammy so much. He was my sports hero second only to Michael Jordan. I always felt that the things he did wrong were exaggerated greatly by the fans and although they were, in the end, not right, he didn't deserve the flak he ended up getting for them.

 

Obviously, there are countless memories, but the one memory that stands out for me is his game-tying homerun in the 2003 NLCS, game 1. I mean, this is what fans dream of. Team down 2 bottom of the ninth, 2 outs, man on second, playoffs, fans on their feet going crazy, your slugger's up. BOOM! onto waveland avenue. I still get chills thinking about it even though we lost the game. That was for all those critics who said Sosa wasn't a big-time playoff-type player.

 

I'm so upset I won't get to see him play ever again. :cry:

I didn't think any possible way Sammy would hit it. Went utterly insane when he did. What an amazing moment. He really did have a very good playoffs that year as I recall.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He really did have a very good playoffs that year as I recall.

 

Kind of a down LDS in terms of AVG & SLG (409 OBP though), picked it up in the LCS: 308/455/577/1032.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He really did have a very good playoffs that year as I recall.

 

Kind of a down LDS in terms of AVG & SLG (409 OBP though), picked it up in the LCS: 308/455/577/1032.

 

Off topic, but I just re-realized how big of an LDS Moises had: 500/524/550/1074. Makes it look like he was a bum in the LCS (310/355/552/907). Wow!

[Soul]

I agree that Sammy's retirement is being overly criticized in the media. It seems to be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of thing.

 

My true feelings are that once the smoke clears, Sammy's legacy won't be a particularly a good one. I feel, right or wrong, he'll be looked at as the textbook steroid era player. A few mind boggling years followed by falling off the face of the earth. The articles being written about him right now, certainly lead me to believe this will be the case.

 

I hear what you're saying. And I don't disagree that is probably how the popular perception will go.

 

But it's like......'96 to '03 incredible numbers each year, with '98-'02 being absolutely off the charts. That's not really "just a few years." It's nearly a decade of performance. And he wasn't too shabby in some of those years beforehand, too.

 

Sammy will probably be pounded by everyone forever. But not by me. He was great. He made me excited to watch a Cubs game when there was nothing else to root for on this team. And he had a major hand in propelling us to 2 playoff appearances in '98 and '03.

[USSoccer]

I just don't see how someone could take 2 incidents (The cork and the completely meaningless Game 162 thing from 2004) and wipe out a decade of pretty much being the best player in franchise history, and oft times the only reason to tune in.

 

Sosa's 21 should fly above Santos, Williams and beside Banks' in a few years. If it doesn't, it's a shame. He was the best player in the history of the franchise. Only Hack Wilson comes close. .

[Roast]

Sosa's 21 should fly above Santos, Williams and beside Banks' in a few years. If it doesn't, it's a shame. He was the best player in the history of the franchise. Only Hack Wilson comes close. .

 

Very true..so, why isnt wilsons number retired?

[Fred Hornkohl]

Sosa's 21 should fly above Santos, Williams and beside Banks' in a few years. If it doesn't, it's a shame. He was the best player in the history of the franchise. Only Hack Wilson comes close. .

 

Very true..so, why isnt wilsons number retired?

 

I don't think Hack Wilson had a number.

[Roast]

Sosa's 21 should fly above Santos, Williams and beside Banks' in a few years. If it doesn't, it's a shame. He was the best player in the history of the franchise. Only Hack Wilson comes close. .

 

Very true..so, why isnt wilsons number retired?

 

I don't think Hack Wilson had a number.

 

Oh, well in that case...

[Chris]

Obviously, there are countless memories, but the one memory that stands out for me is his game-tying homerun in the 2003 NLCS, game 1. I mean, this is what fans dream of. Team down 2 bottom of the ninth, 2 outs, man on second, playoffs, fans on their feet going crazy, your slugger's up. BOOM! onto waveland avenue. I still get chills thinking about it even though we lost the game.

 

I didn't think any possible way Sammy would hit it. Went utterly insane when he did. What an amazing moment.

 

Game 1 of the 2003 NLCS was the first game me and my wife attended at Wrigley. I have the game on video and made it a point to watch it not long ago. That was the greatest sports moment I have ever seen live.

 

I was fortunate to see some great Sammy moments in person. I got to watch Sammy and the Cubs play the Jaxx in an exhibition game. Sammy came out for a HR derby. He lost the derby, but hit some amazing shots at the Interstate. The 2000 HR Derby in Atlanta was amazing as well.

 

When Sammy came to Jackson to rehab with the Jaxx, it was tremendous. Nothing like your favorite current player coming to rehab 15 minutes from your house. Before he left he came out to address the fans. As he was leaving, I waved a "W" flag and yelled "Get a World Championship!", to which he looked up, smiled, and gave a salute. Great times!

[mhuber92211]

why can't the Cubs sign Sosa to a 1 day contract and have him retire in celebatory mode in the uniform that made him great?that would be a very classy move IMO

[Illini Iceman]

why can't the Cubs sign Sosa to a 1 day contract and have him retire in celebatory mode in the uniform that made him great?that would be a very classy move IMO

 

I don't think those one day contracts that players sign in the NFL are allowed under MLB labor rules. I am not 100% sure about that but I remember reading it somewhere. That is why you never see it happen in baseball but it happens all the time in football, even with marginal players.

[NCCubFan]

why can't the Cubs sign Sosa to a 1 day contract and have him retire in celebatory mode in the uniform that made him great?that would be a very classy move IMO

 

I don't think those one day contracts that players sign in the NFL are allowed under MLB labor rules. I am not 100% sure about that but I remember reading it somewhere. That is why you never see it happen in baseball but it happens all the time in football, even with marginal players.

If a player were signed to a one-day contract (if they're even allowed, which I don't know) there would still be the need to create a space on the 40-man roster for the player (unless it was a minor league contract, in which case he wouldn't really be retiring as a Cub, but as an Iowa player).

[Roast]

In 5 years, he'll be wearing a cubs hat anyways (in the hall).

 

I just hope the Cubs can mend things w/ him so he can come back and have his number retired...

[bhogg]

I just don't see how someone could take 2 incidents (The cork and the completely meaningless Game 162 thing from 2004) and wipe out a decade of pretty much being the best player in franchise history, and oft times the only reason to tune in.

 

Sosa's 21 should fly above Santos, Williams and beside Banks' in a few years. If it doesn't, it's a shame. He was the best player in the history of the franchise. Only Hack Wilson comes close. .

 

 

Where would you put Sandberg's?

[Roast]

I just don't see how someone could take 2 incidents (The cork and the completely meaningless Game 162 thing from 2004) and wipe out a decade of pretty much being the best player in franchise history, and oft times the only reason to tune in.

 

Sosa's 21 should fly above Santos, Williams and beside Banks' in a few years. If it doesn't, it's a shame. He was the best player in the history of the franchise. Only Hack Wilson comes close. .

 

 

Where would you put Sandberg's?

I vote we leave the current flags where they are. Put sammy's in place of the American flag. I'd pledge allegance to it.

 

Dear NSA/FBI/CIA/DHS, just joking. Dont kill me.

[bhogg]

is there going to be any kind of back drop behind the new bleachers?

 

Maybe something that stands high enough they could display large, retired numbers.

[Chocolate Milk]

ESPN has one of thos "Sports Nation" polls on Sosa.

[Mizzou]

ESPN has one of thos "Sports Nation" polls on Sosa.

59% of the people that voted says he's NOT a hall of famer? Jesus Christ, that's absurd.

[Chocolate Milk]

ESPN has one of thos "Sports Nation" polls on Sosa.

59% of the people that voted says he's NOT a hall of famer? Jesus Christ, that's absurd.

 

Uh...

 

1) Has Sammy Sosa played his last game in the majors?


63.5% Yes

36.5% No


2) Would you want your favorite team to offer Sosa more than the $500,000 he turned down from the Nationals?


74.3% No

25.7% Yes


3) What's your personal opinion of Sosa?


44.0% I used to be a fan, but he lost me.

31.6% I was never a fan.

24.4% I'm still a fan.


4) Do you believe Sosa, who never tested positive and denies using them, ever used performance-enhancing drugs?


76.4% Yes

23.6% No


5) Approximately how many home runs do you think Sosa would have hit if never used performance-enhancing drugs?


48.7% 400 or fewer

21.1% 450

15.5% 588 (his current total)

11.6% 500

3.0% 550


6) Will Sosa be elected by the BBWAA to the Hall of Fame?


54.9% Yes, but not on the first ballot

26.1% No

18.9% Yes, on the first ballot


7) Does Sosa deserve to be in the Hall of Fame?


50.1% No

49.9% Yes


8) Who is the best player in Cubs history?


68.0% Ernie Banks

14.8% Ryne Sandberg

7.8% Sammy Sosa

3.4% Hack Wilson

1.4% Cap Anson

1.2% Mordecai Brown

1.2% Ron Santo

1.1% Billy Williams

1.1% Fergie Jenkins


9) Should the Cubs retire Sosa's number, joining Ernie Banks, Ryne Sandberg, Ron Santo and Billy Williams?


60.7% No

39.3% Yes


10) Which was Sosa's best season?


74.4% 2001: .328 average, 64 HR, 160 RBI

25.0% 1998: .308 average, 66 HR, 158 RBI

0.6% 1999: .288 average, 63 HR, 141 RBI


11) Who will ultimately be remembered as the face of the steroids era in baseball?


52.0% Barry Bonds

24.7% Mark McGwire

16.0% Rafael Palmeiro

6.1% Jason Giambi

1.2% Sammy Sosa


12) Did Sosa and Mark McGwire's pursuit of Roger Maris' record in 1998 increase your interest in baseball?


36.8% Yes, and it hasn't faded yet

34.3% No

28.9% Yes, but only temporarily

[Mizzou]

Hmm. If you just go to the main MLB page on ESPN.com, there's a simple yes or no poll at the bottom right.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/