2006 Lineup

January 30, 2006

It's the other way around IMO. I think Walker can be either or (patient and sometimes aggressive). I don't know how you think Cedeno is more aggressive. One thing is for sure, he doesn' swing at pitches out of the zone much. He's way more selective than any other Cub I've seen in recent years. Murton is almost as selective as he is.

Both Murton and Walker were far more selective than Cedeno when choosing what pitches to swing at. Cedeno's take/swing ratio was 0.98, compared to 1.11 for Murton and 1.16 for Walker. Cedeno really wasn't any more effective with his swings, either. Walker made more contact than Cedeno -- Walker made contact in 89.8% of his swings compared to 88.4% for Ronny -- while Murton hit with far more power than either of them, though his contact ratio was lower.

Patience-wise Ronny's numbers were far more like Neifi's than anyone else on the team, though Cedeno's were a tad better.

Mushimus · January 30, 2006

It's the other way around IMO. I think Walker can be either or (patient and sometimes aggressive). I don't know how you think Cedeno is more aggressive. One thing is for sure, he doesn' swing at pitches out of the zone much. He's way more selective than any other Cub I've seen in recent years. Murton is almost as selective as he is.
Both Murton and Walker were far more selective than Cedeno when choosing what pitches to swing at. Cedeno's take/swing ratio was 0.98, compared to 1.11 for Murton and 1.16 for Walker. Cedeno really wasn't any more effective with his swings, either. Walker made more contact than Cedeno -- Walker made contact in 89.8% of his swings compared to 88.4% for Ronny -- while Murton hit with far more power than either of them, though his contact ratio was lower.

Patience-wise Ronny's numbers were far more like Neifi's than anyone else on the team, though Cedeno's were a tad better.

I'm waiting to actually see if Dusty starts Nefi more often than Cedeno. Can you imagine Nefi in the 2 hole????

Diffusion · January 30, 2006

It's the other way around IMO. I think Walker can be either or (patient and sometimes aggressive). I don't know how you think Cedeno is more aggressive. One thing is for sure, he doesn' swing at pitches out of the zone much. He's way more selective than any other Cub I've seen in recent years. Murton is almost as selective as he is.
Both Murton and Walker were far more selective than Cedeno when choosing what pitches to swing at. Cedeno's take/swing ratio was 0.98, compared to 1.11 for Murton and 1.16 for Walker. Cedeno really wasn't any more effective with his swings, either. Walker made more contact than Cedeno -- Walker made contact in 89.8% of his swings compared to 88.4% for Ronny -- while Murton hit with far more power than either of them, though his contact ratio was lower.

Patience-wise Ronny's numbers were far more like Neifi's than anyone else on the team, though Cedeno's were a tad better.

I'm waiting to actually see if Dusty starts Nefi more often than Cedeno. Can you imagine Nefi in the 2 hole????

No, I really can't. It's just unfathomable. No major league manager would ever do that.

anemic offense · January 30, 2006

My lineup is probably not the popular one here, but I'll explain why I think it should go this way:

Pierre CF
Cedeno SS
Lee 1B
Aramis 3B
Jones RF (this is where a lot of you say NOOOO)
Murton LF
Walker 2B
Barrett C

Everybody agrees Pierre should leadoff (even Dusty lol). Cedeno is the first controversial figure here because most of you are not sold on him yet. I think he's ready for the job. The kid is hungry and I don't think pressure at that spot is going to bother him. I gave my views on why he should bat 2nd. on my Cedeno & Murton topic. His OBP is going to be ok, or better than that. Lee is our 3 unless Aram gets sizzling hot. Now, Jones is the main piece of the puzzle here.....if he can improve his hitting against lefties, then he will help this team big time. I hope that his chat with Tony Gwyn has been fruitful. Jones is taking the place in the lineup of where Burnitz left off. I have him at 5th because of his power. In a good season, he can hit 25-30 homeruns, and drive in 90-100 RBIs (if we have men on base). You can't waste that kind of potential RBI production at the 7th spot where some of you want him. I'm more optimistic and I think that he's out to prove the naysayers wrong. He has Lee and Aram around him, so he won't feel like he has to carry the team on his shoulders like with the Twins in the last couple of years. Murton has the capability of being a 2 hitter, but has enough pop to be a 6th. Walker is a doubles hitter and drives in runs. Walker typically has a .350 OBP, but he doesn't seem like a patient hitter to me. When he's hot, his OBP will stay up. I remember in the beginning of 2004 that his OBP was over .400 and he did very well, but then in 2004 and 2005, he went through a long drought around May or June. He tends to be aggressive and is a pull hitter, he hits into a lot of ground balls, which can turn into double plays. He's too slow to be an effective 2-hitter. Despite Barrett having one of the best BAs for a catcher, he's great getting tons of meaningless hits with nobody in scoring position. For a good reason he bats 7th or 8th.

I like your 1-4, but I'd put Walker 5, Barrett 6, Murton 7 and Jacque 8 (9 when Z starts). It's NEVER gonna happen though.

anemic offense · January 30, 2006

It's the other way around IMO. I think Walker can be either or (patient and sometimes aggressive). I don't know how you think Cedeno is more aggressive. One thing is for sure, he doesn' swing at pitches out of the zone much. He's way more selective than any other Cub I've seen in recent years. Murton is almost as selective as he is.
Both Murton and Walker were far more selective than Cedeno when choosing what pitches to swing at. Cedeno's take/swing ratio was 0.98, compared to 1.11 for Murton and 1.16 for Walker. Cedeno really wasn't any more effective with his swings, either. Walker made more contact than Cedeno -- Walker made contact in 89.8% of his swings compared to 88.4% for Ronny -- while Murton hit with far more power than either of them, though his contact ratio was lower.

Patience-wise Ronny's numbers were far more like Neifi's than anyone else on the team, though Cedeno's were a tad better.

I'm waiting to actually see if Dusty starts Nefi more often than Cedeno. Can you imagine Nefi in the 2 hole????

No, I really can't. It's just unfathomable. No major league manager would ever do that.

Why not, he did it last year? Although you could say these are a different set of circumstances (with Ronny having some experience), there was at least one AAA manager who couldn't believe Cedeno wasn't in Chicago sooner than he was. And I dont' think he was the only one.

E.J. · January 30, 2006

I don't know if this really belongs here, but is anyone else just not very optimistic about this season? I just feel like there wasn't nearly enough done this offseason to make the team competitive, and once again we're relying heavily on the health of pitchers who have proven in the past not to be very healthy. I know there's still some time left before opening day, but I just feel like right now there's not enough firepower on this team to make it playoff caliber. I was excited for the 2004 season to begin. I thought we might have a chance last year if Prior and Wood were healthy. This year I just feel like third place in the division and no playoffs is inevitable. Definitely glass half empty, but it is what it is.

anemic offense · January 30, 2006

I don't know if this really belongs here, but is anyone else just not very optimistic about this season? I just feel like there wasn't nearly enough done this offseason to make the team competitive, and once again we're relying heavily on the health of pitchers who have proven in the past not to be very healthy. I know there's still some time left before opening day, but I just feel like right now there's not enough firepower on this team to make it playoff caliber. I was excited for the 2004 season to begin. I thought we might have a chance last year if Prior and Wood were healthy. This year I just feel like third place in the division and no playoffs is inevitable. Definitely glass half empty, but it is what it is.

Honestly I'm not exactly sure what to think. Hendry made one really bad move (Jones), a couple of moves which could go either way (Howry and Eyre), and made a nice trade (IMO) for Pierre. With that said, a lot of this teams success will hinge on the play of the young guys (Ronny and Matt) and the health of our starting pitching. They could be really good (a lot better than what most here are predicting) or pretty bad. There are jsut so many wild cards that its hard to get a handle on this team. At least theat's my read.

Drew Doughty · January 30, 2006

Yeah, I really don't know what to have going into this season. I'm usually a pretty pessimistic guy when it comes to sports (I root for the Cubs and the LA Kings (the hockey team that loses about 500 man games to injury per year) so it comes natural) and I'm not sure what to make of this team. The pessimistic side is saying "Eyre and Howry will suck, not only will Jones not get better, he'll get worse, Wood won't pitch this year, Perez is going to start everyday, and Z is gonna blow out his elbow." But the optimistic side is saying, "Eyre and Howry will be nice additions to a solid bullpen, Jones will be a strong aspect, Wood's going to be in 2003 form, Perez is going to blow out his elbow, and Z will win the Cy Young."

Meh.

MPrior · January 30, 2006

It's the other way around IMO. I think Walker can be either or (patient and sometimes aggressive). I don't know how you think Cedeno is more aggressive. One thing is for sure, he doesn' swing at pitches out of the zone much. He's way more selective than any other Cub I've seen in recent years. Murton is almost as selective as he is.
Both Murton and Walker were far more selective than Cedeno when choosing what pitches to swing at. Cedeno's take/swing ratio was 0.98, compared to 1.11 for Murton and 1.16 for Walker. Cedeno really wasn't any more effective with his swings, either. Walker made more contact than Cedeno -- Walker made contact in 89.8% of his swings compared to 88.4% for Ronny -- while Murton hit with far more power than either of them, though his contact ratio was lower.

Patience-wise Ronny's numbers were far more like Neifi's than anyone else on the team, though Cedeno's were a tad better.

I'm waiting to actually see if Dusty starts Nefi more often than Cedeno. Can you imagine Nefi in the 2 hole????

No, I really can't. It's just unfathomable. No major league manager would ever do that.

Why not, he did it last year? Although you could say these are a different set of circumstances (with Ronny having some experience), there was at least one AAA manager who couldn't believe Cedeno wasn't in Chicago sooner than he was. And I dont' think he was the only one.

I believe that was sarcasm.

And secondly, I don't really like the idea of someone whose OBP is as AVG-inflated as Cedeno's batting second, at least not until he proves he can maintain that average. If Cedeno does well, he'll probably have a line of .280/.325/.420, or similar, whereas Walker is a safe bet to put up something like his career numbers of .290/.348/.441, which is better in all aspects. Which of those two lines would you rather have in the 2 spot?

Obviously I like Cedeno. And I'd be more than willing to hand him the no. 2 hitter role once he proves that he can sustain that very high batting average at the ML level.

goonys evil twin · January 30, 2006

Man people are putting a ridiculous amount of expectations on Cedeno right now. He's a decent bet to have an acceptable season at the plate, but he's no top notch 2 hitter, not yet at least.

Anybody who bats 5th in a lineup with Pierre, Lee, Ramirez, and even an average 2nd hitter has a chance for 90-100 RBI. That wouldn't be an accomplishment. Falling short of that would be a complete failure. Jones has no business seeing the 5 hole on this team. It's not a matter of "naysayers" predicting a collapse by him. Rather, it's a case of rational people looking at his career and putting together a reasonable expectation for what he'll do this year. Jones sucks. He's not an undervalued player looking to prove his doubters wrong. He's proven over and over that he's no good. He's consistently unimpressive, and should be nowhere near the middle of a lineup outside the smallest markets where they can't afford anything better than his poor production.

CuseCubFan69 · January 30, 2006

Since I don't think Baker would ever platoon Jones I wonder if he would swing him with Murton in the 5 spot depending on the pitcher? This would take some thinking but at least it would be a psuedo platoon and Jones wouldn't be hitting 5th against a lefty. This, assuming Walker would be at the 2 spot.

goonys evil twin · January 30, 2006

Since I don't think Baker would ever platoon Jones I wonder if he would swing him with Murton in the 5 spot depending on the pitcher? This would take some thinking but at least it would be a psuedo platoon and Jones wouldn't be hitting 5th against a lefty. This, assuming Walker would be at the 2 spot.

Dusty has shown over and over his tendency to completely overhaul the lineup with a lefty on the mound. Sometimes stacking as much as 6 or 7 righties in a row. The few times he did drop Burnitz were against lefties, and he's repeatedly sat his lefties against LHP, much more so than he's sat his mediocre RH against RHP. I think he's got a hangup with the L on L matchup. And in this case at least, it could serve the team well.

CuseCubFan69 · January 30, 2006

Since I don't think Baker would ever platoon Jones I wonder if he would swing him with Murton in the 5 spot depending on the pitcher? This would take some thinking but at least it would be a psuedo platoon and Jones wouldn't be hitting 5th against a lefty. This, assuming Walker would be at the 2 spot.

Dusty has shown over and over his tendency to completely overhaul the lineup with a lefty on the mound. Sometimes stacking as much as 6 or 7 righties in a row. The few times he did drop Burnitz were against lefties, and he's repeatedly sat his lefties against LHP, much more so than he's sat his mediocre RH against RHP. I think he's got a hangup with the L on L matchup. And in this case at least, it could serve the team well.

What worries me is the illusion that Jones is a switch hitter though. Baker just doesn't seem to get that part of the equation IMO and I think he'll hit Jones in the 5 the whole time to prove he has confidence in him. This is why the great Johnnie B is such a players manager.

goonys evil twin · January 30, 2006

What worries me is the illusion that Jones is a switch hitter though.

What is this?

CuseCubFan69 · January 30, 2006

What worries me is the illusion that Jones is a switch hitter though.

What is this?

It means he can't hit right handed but since he attempts to against leftys he must be able to. In other words, switch hitters seem to get way too many benefits of doubts from managers like Baker that assume they can be successful hitting both ways when in fact they are not.

goonys evil twin · January 30, 2006

What worries me is the illusion that Jones is a switch hitter though.

What is this?

It means he can't hit right handed but since he attempts to against leftys he must be able to. In other words, switch hitters seem to get way too many benefits of doubts from managers like Baker that assume they can be successful hitting both ways when in fact they are not.

Jones tries to hit from the right side? I thought he was strictly a LH hitter.

CuseCubFan69 · January 30, 2006

What worries me is the illusion that Jones is a switch hitter though.

What is this?

It means he can't hit right handed but since he attempts to against leftys he must be able to. In other words, switch hitters seem to get way too many benefits of doubts from managers like Baker that assume they can be successful hitting both ways when in fact they are not.

Jones tries to hit from the right side? I thought he was strictly a LH hitter.

I thought he was a switch hitter? Hmmm....wrong again am I? Then hopefully this would help ease my pain.

E.J. · January 30, 2006

What worries me is the illusion that Jones is a switch hitter though.

What is this?

It means he can't hit right handed but since he attempts to against leftys he must be able to. In other words, switch hitters seem to get way too many benefits of doubts from managers like Baker that assume they can be successful hitting both ways when in fact they are not.

Jones tries to hit from the right side? I thought he was strictly a LH hitter.

I thought he was a switch hitter? Hmmm....wrong again am I? Then hopefully this would help ease my pain.

He's strictly a LH hitter.

goonys evil twin · January 30, 2006

Hmmm....wrong again am I? Then hopefully this would help ease my pain.

Yoda and Terence Mann all at once.

CuseCubFan69 · January 30, 2006

Hmmm....wrong again am I? Then hopefully this would help ease my pain.

Yoda and Terence Mann all at once.

I am bald and overweight so that might just be right.

So if Baker doesn't try his confidence builder thing with a vet he could:

Pierre

Walker/Hairston

Lee

ARam

Jones/Murton

Murton/Jones

Barrett

Cedeno/Perez

That's not bad...not great but as you said if the pitchers do have good years good enough to compete IMO if everyone stays healthy and has their average or above average years and of course the injury bug doesn't bite so hard.

wade · January 30, 2006

Hmmm....wrong again am I? Then hopefully this would help ease my pain.

Yoda and Terence Mann all at once.

LOL!

MustangMike · January 30, 2006

As to the talk between Cedeno or Walker batting second, would Walker batting from the left side help Juan still any more bases? Is there any stats on that? Just curious

UK1679666180 · January 30, 2006

There's never been a study on that, but it does block the catcher's view a millisecond longer than a RH'ed batter.

CuseCubFan69 · January 30, 2006

I'm curious on how many times Pierre was thrown out at second and how many times he was picked off.

Mark Priors Calves · January 30, 2006

Walker should bat 2nd but I really can't see Dusty going back to back with two left handed hitters. He wouldn't use to monster right handed bats back to back in Lee and Ramirez. I can't see the same situation at the top of the order being any different.