cbssportsline w/ some kind words about the cubs' offseason

[Soul]

So they're in the 76 to 86 win range? That's reasonable. Imo, with some real good luck where everything is clicking and there's few injuries, they can win over 90. With some real bad luck, they can lose 70 or less. I think teams like Houston, Philadephia, Washington, LA, SD, and NY fall under this as well. St. Louis & Atlanta will find some way to win 90+.

 

I don't even see much risk for 76-79 wins. I think 80-86 is the highly probable range, with 87-92 quite possible, with an outside shot at 93+. I think Philly is at a big risk for decline if they don't find some starting pitching. The Mets are going to be better than last year's 83 win team.

 

I think all those other teams, plus Milwaukee will compete with the Cubs. And SF might be there as well if Bonds plays a full healthy season.

 

I'm a little more optimistic than that but not much. I would say 83-88 highly probable. I do think St. Louis is closer to 90 than 100 this year though and Houston finally drops back to .500.

 

Still some time yet and I want to see who rolls into Spring Training with injuries (i.e. not ready to play baseball physically).

 

I'm not seeing much of a plan with this ballclub. Are we building through free agency? The draft/minors? Both? Neither? The ship seems a bit adrift from my point of view.

 

Certain players are not impressive in their offseason dedication, too. That's troubling.

 

Right now I'm looking at .500.........3rd or 4th place depending on whether the Brewers continue their build and what happens with the Stros.

[stitchface]

last year's team was .500. this year's version is better and almost has to be less unlucky.

[Soul]

last year's team was .500. this year's version is better and almost has to be less unlucky.

 

I'm glad you think so (and you're not alone).

 

Honestly I don't see it. I hope you're right. Looks pretty shaky to me right now, kind of like last year.

[stitchface]

last year's team was .500. this year's version is better and almost has to be less unlucky.

 

I'm glad you think so (and you're not alone).

 

Honestly I don't see it. I hope you're right. Looks pretty shaky to me right now, kind of like last year.

 

Last year's team seemed to find new and innovative ways to lose. This year has to be luckier.

[Illini Iceman]

So they're in the 76 to 86 win range? That's reasonable. Imo, with some real good luck where everything is clicking and there's few injuries, they can win over 90. With some real bad luck, they can lose 70 or less. I think teams like Houston, Philadephia, Washington, LA, SD, and NY fall under this as well. St. Louis & Atlanta will find some way to win 90+.

 

I don't even see much risk for 76-79 wins. I think 80-86 is the highly probable range, with 87-92 quite possible, with an outside shot at 93+. I think Philly is at a big risk for decline if they don't find some starting pitching. The Mets are going to be better than last year's 83 win team.

 

I think all those other teams, plus Milwaukee will compete with the Cubs. And SF might be there as well if Bonds plays a full healthy season.

 

I'm a little more optimistic than that but not much. I would say 83-88 highly probable. I do think St. Louis is closer to 90 than 100 this year though and Houston finally drops back to .500.

 

Still some time yet and I want to see who rolls into Spring Training with injuries (i.e. not ready to play baseball physically).

 

I'm not seeing much of a plan with this ballclub. Are we building through free agency? The draft/minors? Both? Neither? The ship seems a bit adrift from my point of view.

 

Certain players are not impressive in their offseason dedication, too. That's troubling.

 

Right now I'm looking at .500.........3rd or 4th place depending on whether the Brewers continue their build and what happens with the Stros.

 

Who are you referring to? Barrett, Jones and Pierre seem to be working very hard and word was that the starting pitchers looked to be in excellent shape for that time of year at the convention.

Not saying you are wrong, just wondering what you are basing this on since I have not seen any such reports.

[Soul]

So they're in the 76 to 86 win range? That's reasonable. Imo, with some real good luck where everything is clicking and there's few injuries, they can win over 90. With some real bad luck, they can lose 70 or less. I think teams like Houston, Philadephia, Washington, LA, SD, and NY fall under this as well. St. Louis & Atlanta will find some way to win 90+.

 

I don't even see much risk for 76-79 wins. I think 80-86 is the highly probable range, with 87-92 quite possible, with an outside shot at 93+. I think Philly is at a big risk for decline if they don't find some starting pitching. The Mets are going to be better than last year's 83 win team.

 

I think all those other teams, plus Milwaukee will compete with the Cubs. And SF might be there as well if Bonds plays a full healthy season.

 

I'm a little more optimistic than that but not much. I would say 83-88 highly probable. I do think St. Louis is closer to 90 than 100 this year though and Houston finally drops back to .500.

 

Still some time yet and I want to see who rolls into Spring Training with injuries (i.e. not ready to play baseball physically).

 

I'm not seeing much of a plan with this ballclub. Are we building through free agency? The draft/minors? Both? Neither? The ship seems a bit adrift from my point of view.

 

Certain players are not impressive in their offseason dedication, too. That's troubling.

 

Right now I'm looking at .500.........3rd or 4th place depending on whether the Brewers continue their build and what happens with the Stros.

 

Who are you referring to? Barrett, Jones and Pierre seem to be working very hard and word was that the starting pitchers looked to be in excellent shape for that time of year at the convention.

Not saying you are wrong, just wondering what you are basing this on since I have not seen any such reports.

 

I thought everyone knew who I was referring to, sorry.

 

Ramirez seems to come into camp fatter each year. He's still good, don't get me wrong. But he's young----as he gets older that will begin to catch up with him.

 

Wood never works on his mechanics, comes in the same injury-prone player despite the fact that everyone and their brother knows his motion is poor.

 

Before the trade, CPatt was a total dud, doing nothing to improve and completely unwilling to change/work.

 

These are fairly well documented. I thought it was accepted knowledge.

[Illini Iceman]

So they're in the 76 to 86 win range? That's reasonable. Imo, with some real good luck where everything is clicking and there's few injuries, they can win over 90. With some real bad luck, they can lose 70 or less. I think teams like Houston, Philadephia, Washington, LA, SD, and NY fall under this as well. St. Louis & Atlanta will find some way to win 90+.

 

I don't even see much risk for 76-79 wins. I think 80-86 is the highly probable range, with 87-92 quite possible, with an outside shot at 93+. I think Philly is at a big risk for decline if they don't find some starting pitching. The Mets are going to be better than last year's 83 win team.

 

I think all those other teams, plus Milwaukee will compete with the Cubs. And SF might be there as well if Bonds plays a full healthy season.

 

I'm a little more optimistic than that but not much. I would say 83-88 highly probable. I do think St. Louis is closer to 90 than 100 this year though and Houston finally drops back to .500.

 

Still some time yet and I want to see who rolls into Spring Training with injuries (i.e. not ready to play baseball physically).

 

I'm not seeing much of a plan with this ballclub. Are we building through free agency? The draft/minors? Both? Neither? The ship seems a bit adrift from my point of view.

 

Certain players are not impressive in their offseason dedication, too. That's troubling.

 

Right now I'm looking at .500.........3rd or 4th place depending on whether the Brewers continue their build and what happens with the Stros.

 

Who are you referring to? Barrett, Jones and Pierre seem to be working very hard and word was that the starting pitchers looked to be in excellent shape for that time of year at the convention.

Not saying you are wrong, just wondering what you are basing this on since I have not seen any such reports.

 

I thought everyone knew who I was referring to, sorry.

 

Ramirez seems to come into camp fatter each year. He's still good, don't get me wrong. But he's young----as he gets older that will begin to catch up with him.

 

Wood never works on his mechanics, comes in the same injury-prone player despite the fact that everyone and their brother knows his motion is poor.

 

Before the trade, CPatt was a total dud, doing nothing to improve and completely unwilling to change/work.

 

These are fairly well documented. I thought it was accepted knowledge.

 

Hmmm...we'll see how they look in spring training.

I think ARam was supposedly going to put on a off season workout program that focused on building up lower body strength.

Wood has been rehabbing so if offseason conditioning is normally a problem for him I don't think he had the option of slacking off this year.

CPatt is no longer our problem. :lol:

I get the feeling a lot of the players are pretty p.o.'d after the last couple of disappointing years and working extra hard to be ready this season.

It still may not be enough, but this year I don't think it will be for lack of preparation.

[stitchface]

Ramirez is a training with a cubs designated trainer and being monitored weekly.

[USSoccer]

Ramirez is a training with a cubs designated trainer and being monitored weekly.

 

I have no clue when Ramirez took his place in the "Cub Whipping Boy 2005-6" line, but I just don't get it.

 

He got hurt. So what? It happens. He's on a conditioning routine, and he's been the team's most consistently good player the past 2 seasons. BA aside, he was having as good of a season as Lee was having before he got hurt, but people don't remember this.

 

People rag on him for "not running out ground balls". With a hurt quad and a sore hamstring. So, he ran hard down the line to beat out a DP and completely pulled his quad. And gets ripped for getting hurt.

 

I've seen this pattern of "Can do no right" before, and it's crap. He's the best offensive player the Cubs have (Lee needs to do it more than once for me to think last season was anything but an aberration), and thusly, should be cut some slack.

 

If he comes into camp out of shape (which I really doubt given the offseason training he's done), then rag on him if he gets hurt. But injuries happen. Let's not lose sight of that in a mad rush to have a highly paid scapegoat.

[Banghart]

Before the trade, CPatt was a total dud, doing nothing to improve and completely unwilling to change/work.

 

These are fairly well documented. I thought it was accepted knowledge.

He's gone now, so I figured we wouldn't have to go through this again, but where is this notion that CPatt wasn't willing to work come from. All reports were last year that he showed up earlier, with a few other Cubs position players, to Mesa to work on his swing. I have never seen anything, besides posters on this message board, which question CPatt's work ethic. His ability to adapt to whatever the Cubs coaches wanted from him is a completely different problem, and unrelated to any lack of effort.

 

-Banghart

[Tim]

If the Giants have Bonds healthy all year and if Cain is as good as he looked in 2005, they should win the west.

 

I fear AZ in a few years, though. I like the guys they have at the top end of their system much more than LA's more vaunted system. I'll take Stephen Drew, Justin Upton, Conor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Chris Young and Carlos Gonzalez against any team's top 6 in baseball. In fact, I'll take that top six against any team's top six in the past five years.

 

If they can find pitching that can survive in AZ, they'll be monsters in a few years.

 

Id like to see them matchup against the Angels top 6

Brandon Wood is very, very good and is probably the best prospect between the two teams. But Drew and Upton are not that far behind. Howie Kendrick doesn't quite match up with one of those two. And I don't think the next four guys in the Angels list match up at all with the guys in the D'Backs list. All six of those guys will probably be in the top 50 and could all be in the top 30 in baseball.

[frostwyrm]

Ramirez is a training with a cubs designated trainer and being monitored weekly.

 

I have no clue when Ramirez took his place in the "Cub Whipping Boy 2005-6" line, but I just don't get it.

 

He got hurt. So what? It happens. He's on a conditioning routine, and he's been the team's most consistently good player the past 2 seasons. BA aside, he was having as good of a season as Lee was having before he got hurt, but people don't remember this.

 

People rag on him for "not running out ground balls". With a hurt quad and a sore hamstring. So, he ran hard down the line to beat out a DP and completely pulled his quad. And gets ripped for getting hurt.

 

I've seen this pattern of "Can do no right" before, and it's crap. He's the best offensive player the Cubs have (Lee needs to do it more than once for me to think last season was anything but an aberration), and thusly, should be cut some slack.

 

If he comes into camp out of shape (which I really doubt given the offseason training he's done), then rag on him if he gets hurt. But injuries happen. Let's not lose sight of that in a mad rush to have a highly paid scapegoat.

 

Look at Aram's legs. They are obviously lacking in both size and muscle definition compared to a typical power hitter. I see no evidence of a real committment to fitness in those legs. I bet I could walk down the street and point out random pedestrians with more impressive legs than Aram's. That has to change.

 

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/cubs/cubs-041605.jpg

[stitchface]

my legs are far more impressive. aram is a great hitter.

[Drew Doughty]

Ramirez is a training with a cubs designated trainer and being monitored weekly.

 

I have no clue when Ramirez took his place in the "Cub Whipping Boy 2005-6" line, but I just don't get it.

 

He got hurt. So what? It happens. He's on a conditioning routine, and he's been the team's most consistently good player the past 2 seasons. BA aside, he was having as good of a season as Lee was having before he got hurt, but people don't remember this.

 

People rag on him for "not running out ground balls". With a hurt quad and a sore hamstring. So, he ran hard down the line to beat out a DP and completely pulled his quad. And gets ripped for getting hurt.

 

I've seen this pattern of "Can do no right" before, and it's crap. He's the best offensive player the Cubs have (Lee needs to do it more than once for me to think last season was anything but an aberration), and thusly, should be cut some slack.

 

If he comes into camp out of shape (which I really doubt given the offseason training he's done), then rag on him if he gets hurt. But injuries happen. Let's not lose sight of that in a mad rush to have a highly paid scapegoat.

 

Look at Aram's legs. They are obviously lacking in both size and muscle definition compared to a typical power hitter. I see no evidence of a real committment to fitness in those legs. I bet I could walk down the street and point out random pedestrians with more impressive legs than Aram's. That has to change.

 

So what? He's working on it. Like was said, if he gets injured because of poor conditioning again, I'd start to get mad. He can hit the ball, and last year was the first year he had real problems. He's always had some minor issues, but I think last year was the turning point. He saw what happened when he didn't condition himself right. I think he'll be in shape and have a big year next year.

[RynoRules]

my legs are far more impressive. aram is a great hitter.

 

This may be the only time men can comment on a man's legs and not arouse "suspicion". :wink:

[Guancous]

This may be the only time men can comment on a man's legs and not arouse "suspicion". Wink

 

There have been many times where I'll watch the Cubs and think, " I wish I could quit you!"

[Warpticon]

Ramirez is a training with a cubs designated trainer and being monitored weekly.

 

I have no clue when Ramirez took his place in the "Cub Whipping Boy 2005-6" line, but I just don't get it.

 

He got hurt. So what? It happens. He's on a conditioning routine, and he's been the team's most consistently good player the past 2 seasons. BA aside, he was having as good of a season as Lee was having before he got hurt, but people don't remember this.

 

People rag on him for "not running out ground balls". With a hurt quad and a sore hamstring. So, he ran hard down the line to beat out a DP and completely pulled his quad. And gets ripped for getting hurt.

 

I've seen this pattern of "Can do no right" before, and it's crap. He's the best offensive player the Cubs have (Lee needs to do it more than once for me to think last season was anything but an aberration), and thusly, should be cut some slack.

 

If he comes into camp out of shape (which I really doubt given the offseason training he's done), then rag on him if he gets hurt. But injuries happen. Let's not lose sight of that in a mad rush to have a highly paid scapegoat.

 

Look at Aram's legs. They are obviously lacking in both size and muscle definition compared to a typical power hitter. I see no evidence of a real committment to fitness in those legs. I bet I could walk down the street and point out random pedestrians with more impressive legs than Aram's. That has to change.

 

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/cubs/cubs-041605.jpg

 

I'm not sure how you can glean all that out of a picture, through his pants.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

His core muscles do need to be strengthened. According to Hendry, Aramis is doing that. The leg/groin injuries really woke Ramirez up to that. He's developed chronic issues in his lower body and it isn't due to lack of stretching, but rather strength issues (according to Hendry on ESPN 1000).

[frostwyrm]

Ramirez is a training with a cubs designated trainer and being monitored weekly.

 

I have no clue when Ramirez took his place in the "Cub Whipping Boy 2005-6" line, but I just don't get it.

 

He got hurt. So what? It happens. He's on a conditioning routine, and he's been the team's most consistently good player the past 2 seasons. BA aside, he was having as good of a season as Lee was having before he got hurt, but people don't remember this.

 

People rag on him for "not running out ground balls". With a hurt quad and a sore hamstring. So, he ran hard down the line to beat out a DP and completely pulled his quad. And gets ripped for getting hurt.

 

I've seen this pattern of "Can do no right" before, and it's crap. He's the best offensive player the Cubs have (Lee needs to do it more than once for me to think last season was anything but an aberration), and thusly, should be cut some slack.

 

If he comes into camp out of shape (which I really doubt given the offseason training he's done), then rag on him if he gets hurt. But injuries happen. Let's not lose sight of that in a mad rush to have a highly paid scapegoat.

 

Look at Aram's legs. They are obviously lacking in both size and muscle definition compared to a typical power hitter. I see no evidence of a real committment to fitness in those legs. I bet I could walk down the street and point out random pedestrians with more impressive legs than Aram's. That has to change.

 

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/cubs/cubs-041605.jpg

 

I'm not sure how you can glean all that out of a picture, through his pants.

 

And I wonder how you can't glean any of that. I think it's pretty obvious from that picture that Aram's legs are underdeveloped.

[Soul]

Ramirez is obviously a great hitter. That just makes it all the more disappointing when you see him go down year after year.

 

I hope he's ready to turn it around this year (health-wise---I always thought the talent was there).

 

Woody has to be a constant source of frustration for every Cub fan. The guy basically threw away one of the most promising careers in the history of major league baseball because he didn't commit himself in the offseason to keeping his body in top shape, and his mechanics seamless. Now he has chronic back problems (which he tried to alleviate last year by losing some weight----hopefully it isn't too late), and might not ever correct his mechanics.

 

CPatt: what might have been. When every person in the City knows what needs to be corrected, and you STILL won't take action, then there really is no choice but to say goodbye.

 

On a positive note, Derek Lee is always in top shape from day 1. Maybe some of these other guys should take a page from his daily workout routines. Hopefully they are. It's a 12 month job, not 6.

[BigbadB]

On a positive note, Derek Lee is always in top shape from day 1. Maybe some of these other guys should take a page from his daily workout routines. Hopefully they are. It's a 12 month job, not 6.

 

Agreed. If you are going to make millions a year to play a game, the least you can do to earn those millions is to pretend to care about the game enough to be ready to play.

 

It's a shame that less talented players who do stay in shape 12/365 never see a major league roster. But, if you are going to beat them out of a job and sign that big contract, you owe it to your employer, the fans and those less talented players to show up to camp ready to play.

[USSoccer]

Ramirez is obviously a great hitter. That just makes it all the more disappointing when you see him go down year after year.

 

I hope he's ready to turn it around this year (health-wise---I always thought the talent was there).

 

Woody has to be a constant source of frustration for every Cub fan. The guy basically threw away one of the most promising careers in the history of major league baseball because he didn't commit himself in the offseason to keeping his body in top shape, and his mechanics seamless. Now he has chronic back problems (which he tried to alleviate last year by losing some weight----hopefully it isn't too late), and might not ever correct his mechanics.

 

CPatt: what might have been. When every person in the City knows what needs to be corrected, and you STILL won't take action, then there really is no choice but to say goodbye.

 

On a positive note, Derek Lee is always in top shape from day 1. Maybe some of these other guys should take a page from his daily workout routines. Hopefully they are. It's a 12 month job, not 6.

 

I don't mean to nitpick, Soul, but in 2004 Aramis didn't really miss any extended time beyond 5-6 games straight games due to injury, and in 2003 he was pretty healthy for both Pittsburgh and us.

 

2001-158 games

2002-142 games

2003-159 games

2004-145 games

2005-123 games

 

It's not like he's a china doll. If he's worked on his flexibility and lower body this winter, you shouldn't see any nagging injuries this year.

Edited January 29, 2006 by USSoccer

[USSoccer]

On a positive note, Derek Lee is always in top shape from day 1. Maybe some of these other guys should take a page from his daily workout routines. Hopefully they are. It's a 12 month job, not 6.

 

Agreed. If you are going to make millions a year to play a game, the least you can do to earn those millions is to pretend to care about the game enough to be ready to play.

 

It's a shame that less talented players who do stay in shape 12/365 never see a major league roster. But, if you are going to beat them out of a job and sign that big contract, you owe it to your employer, the fans and those less talented players to show up to camp ready to play.

 

Lee also plays the least demanding position. That's a big help. But I agree with your larger point.

[stitchface]

On a positive note, Derek Lee is always in top shape from day 1. Maybe some of these other guys should take a page from his daily workout routines. Hopefully they are. It's a 12 month job, not 6.

 

Agreed. If you are going to make millions a year to play a game, the least you can do to earn those millions is to pretend to care about the game enough to be ready to play.

 

It's a shame that less talented players who do stay in shape 12/365 never see a major league roster. But, if you are going to beat them out of a job and sign that big contract, you owe it to your employer, the fans and those less talented players to show up to camp ready to play.

 

Lee also plays the least demanding position. That's a big help. But I agree with your larger point.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that - if you aren't flexible you can't play first - at least not like Lee does.

[USSoccer]

On a positive note, Derek Lee is always in top shape from day 1. Maybe some of these other guys should take a page from his daily workout routines. Hopefully they are. It's a 12 month job, not 6.

 

Agreed. If you are going to make millions a year to play a game, the least you can do to earn those millions is to pretend to care about the game enough to be ready to play.

 

It's a shame that less talented players who do stay in shape 12/365 never see a major league roster. But, if you are going to beat them out of a job and sign that big contract, you owe it to your employer, the fans and those less talented players to show up to camp ready to play.

 

Lee also plays the least demanding position. That's a big help. But I agree with your larger point.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that - if you aren't flexible you can't play first - at least not like Lee does.

 

Less lateral movement in general, less stress on your upper body...depending on the rest of the infield, less stress on your legs (though with Aramis thorwing to him, he does his share of stretching). Certainly less stress on your arm. Less area to cover.