Julio Lugo trade talk

[Abe Frohman]

The latest rumor is that the Cubs are discussing a trade with Tampa Bay (ESPN 1000) - Julio Lugo for Jerome Williams & Todd Walker.

 

Would you do it if you were Jim Hendry?

 

I definately would. Even though Lugo is good for 20 errors at SS, it looks like he gets to a lot of balls and turns a good number of DPs. I seem to remember he had an erratic arm with Houston, and have to think DLee could save him a few errors.

 

Pierre/Lugo at the top of the order would be a great 1-2 punch, and IMO - the defense up the middle is still going to have to get better for the Cubs to take the NL Central. Barrett, Cedeno, Walker, & Pierre just doesn't really stand out as a great defensive core. Not real bad, but not elite by any means.

[ChiCubsFan]

Todd Walker-.290/.348/.441

 

Julio Lugo-.276/.340/.400

 

Those are the career stats of them two. Walker is obviously a better hitter. Is the defensive upgrade from Cedeno at short and Walker at 2nd to Lugo at short and Cedeno at second really worth giving up the difference in offense PLUS Jerome Williams? NO NO NO NO NO.

[MPrior]

I'm with ChiCubsFan. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY DO I DO THAT TRADE. Todd Walker is significantly better than Lugo, and fits very nicely in the second spot in the lineup. Secondly, Jerome Williams is probably our third best starting pitcher. How many teams would trade their #3 starter plus a very good offensive 2B, who cost around 3 Mill combined, for an average-to-slightly-above-average SS who is only guaranteed to be around for one year and probably cost more (I don't actually know what Lugo's contract is like)? Not many.

[Drew Doughty]

No way.Maybe 1 for 1, but definitely not both. Then again, no way Tampa takes one, they're asking for Marte...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wow. If that's really what TB wants, then LaMar's legacy of lunacy lives on.

[CubfaninCA]

Why didn't they ask for Lee & Prior too. Idiot organization.

[DeuceBaseman]

Id do that trade. We are gonna trade Walker anyway, and probably for nobody, so why not get something for him? Williams is not as great as everyone thinks he is. We can always plug Rusch, Guzman, or Hill in his spot and be fine, or sign someoen like Weaver. I like the idea of havin speedy guys at the top of the order.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Id do that trade. We are gonna trade Walker anyway, and probably for nobody, so why not get something for him? Williams is not as great as everyone thinks he is. We can always plug Rusch, Guzman, or Hill in his spot and be fine, or sign someoen like Weaver. I like the idea of havin speedy guys at the top of the order.

 

Williams is quite good. As I have said a couple of times, his numbers as a Cub place him as a 2 starter in the NL. That's very good, especially considering he's 24 and not yet reached arbitration. Lugo is a rental, and Williams would become the best pitcher in the Tampa Bay organization save Kazmir. Plus we're giving them Walker, who outproduced Lugo offensively, when we might be moving Lugo to 2B, where his defensive advantage is mitigated? Terrible terrible deal.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I don't think they should do it, but you guys are comparing stats like Walker is going to be around or be playing 140+ games for us this season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't think they should do it, but you guys are comparing stats like Walker is going to be around or be playing 140+ games for us this season.

 

Being resigned to the fact that we are going to trade or platoon Walker does not change his past production and value as a player. Maybe his value to us is less, in which case it makes more sense "logically"(and it is a maniacally warped logic at this point) to deal him.

[SonnyD]

Todd Walker-.290/.348/.441

 

Julio Lugo-.276/.340/.400

 

I would make this trade in a HEARTBEAT. One thing no one really seems to mention when they talk about Lugo is his ability to steal bases. His numbers last year (and career numbers) for that matter, are just as good as Furcals. In fact, Lugo last year hit .314 with RISP and had a .384 OBP.

 

Even though Baker is not much of a base stealing type of manager, he's never really had any "natural" base stealers (and lets' not call CPatt a base stealer, he looked more lost on the bases then he did at the plate).

 

Now we can potentially have 2 (in Pierre and Lugo) to set the table for D-Lee and A-Ram. The havoc that those 2 guys can present on the base pads is something that doesn't show up on stat sheets. Getting into pitchers heads and having them lose just a "little" focus on the hitter can do wonders. Just the threat of stealing a base is enough. We would have our version of Pierre/Castillo, or Podsednik/Iguchi, Figgins/Cabrera (these are all combos that have been in the post season). Speed, it really does work everyone.....

 

I was under the impression that the Rays wanted a few kids from the farm (Hill, etc), but for Williams and Walker, if it were me, I'd pull the trigger in a "Heartbeat".......

 

Oh by the way, Walker last year hit .259 with RISP and had a .293 OBP. And he can't run worth a lick, and has absolutely NO range. He is nowhere near an ideal 2 hitter......Perhaps a 6,7 or 8, but definitely not a top of the order guy.

[Chris]

Todd Walker-.290/.348/.441

 

Julio Lugo-.276/.340/.400

 

I would make this trade in a HEARTBEAT. One thing no one really seems to mention when they talk about Lugo is his ability to steal bases. His numbers last year (and career numbers) for that matter, are just as good as Furcals. In fact, Lugo last year hit .314 with RISP and had a .384 OBP.

 

Even though Baker is not much of a base stealing type of manager, he's never really had any "natural" base stealers (and lets' not call CPatt a base stealer, he looked more lost on the bases then he did at the plate).

 

Now we can potentially have 2 (in Pierre and Lugo) to set the table for D-Lee and A-Ram. The havoc that those 2 guys can present on the base pads is something that doesn't show up on stat sheets. Getting into pitchers heads and having them lose just a "little" focus on the hitter can do wonders. Just the threat of stealing a base is enough. We would have our version of Pierre/Castillo, or Podsednik/Iguchi, Figgins/Cabrera (these are all combos that have been in the post season). Speed, it really does work everyone.....

 

I was under the impression that the Rays wanted a few kids from the farm (Hill, etc), but for Williams and Walker, if it were me, I'd pull the trigger in a "Heartbeat".......

 

Oh by the way, Walker last year hit .259 with RISP and had a .293 OBP. And he can't run worth a lick, and has absolutely NO range. He is nowhere near an ideal 2 hitter......Perhaps a 6,7 or 8, but definitely not a top of the order guy.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[NorthsideAvenger]

Look anybody who doesn't think this is a solid deal for the Cubs, is "insane in the membrane."

 

1: Walker is THIRD in the depth chart @ 2B, and with his personality, I think he has no shot at starting at 2B.

 

2: Even Lugo is moved to 2B and his defense takes a hit at 2B, it is still a pretty even trade. Not to mention it would open up 2B for Eric Patterson in 2007.

 

3: The rumor is Williams/Walker for Lugo, unnamed pitcher. My gut feeling is the unname pitcher is either McClung or Fossum. To which it would still be a solid move.

 

Besides anything that keeps Perez from starting is fine by me.

Edited January 13, 2006 by NorthsideAvenger

[ChiCubsFan]

Look anybody who doesn't think this is a solid deal for the Cubs, is "insane in the membrane."

 

1: Walker is THIRD in the depth chart @ 2B, and with his personality, I think he has a shot at starting at 2B.

 

2: Even Lugo is moved to 2B and his defense takes a hit at 2B, it is still a pretty even trade. Not to mention it would open up 2B for Eric Patterson in 2007.

 

3: The rumor is Williams/Walker for Lugo, unnamed pitcher. My gut feeling is the unname pitcher is either McClung or Fossum. To which it would still be a solid move.

 

Besides anything that keeps Perez from starting is fine by me.

 

I dont understand why you think I am "insane in the membrane." Your first point is untrue and if it was ture, it would just show the stupidity of our manager. Your second point doesnt make sense. 2b isn't any more occupied with Walker on the team then it would be with Lugo, in fact, its probably more open for Patterson with Walker on the team as opposed to Lugo. I dont know much about the McClung you are talking about but if youre talking about Casey Fossum then ew. I'd rather have Walker over Lugo and I'd MUCH rather have Williams over Fossum.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I don't think they should do it, but you guys are comparing stats like Walker is going to be around or be playing 140+ games for us this season.

 

Being resigned to the fact that we are going to trade or platoon Walker does not change his past production and value as a player. Maybe his value to us is less, in which case it makes more sense "logically"(and it is a maniacally warped logic at this point) to deal him.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you in that sense. But I think if we could get Lugo for him (straight up), I think we'd be lucky. Hendry obviously picked up Walker's option just to trade him, and Hendry obviously overestimated Walker's value. Now that it has been made public that our starting second baseman will probably be Neifi Perez, I don't expect Hendry to be able to get much for him. I'll take a MI of Lugo and Cedeno if Hendry is that set on dealing Walker.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

If Tampa throws in a mid-level interesting prospect, I'd do it. Lugo can match Walker in BA and OBP, Walker has a big advantage in SLG, true. And he hits LH. But Lugo is a superior defensive player and don't forget, he can run like crazy, too. 39 SBs in 2005, how would that look with Pierre's likely 50+ from the leadoff spot? Have the Cubs EVER featured speed like that at the top of their order in the modern era? Dernier and Sandberg is about the only 1-2 I can think of that would.

 

Meanwhile, Walker is a slug on the basepaths.

 

I like Jerome, but honestly--when Wood returns, the Cubs have SEVEN, if not EIGHT (Guzman), starting pitchers. They can afford to move one.

 

Still, Jerome is no slug, so to even things out yes, I would like a prospect coming back too, please. For those not liking the trade idea, keep in mind Boston is supposedly dangling Andy Marte as an alternative. Marte is one of the top five prospects in all of baseball, he's a lot more valuable than Walker + Williams. So you have to offer SOME value to get a deal done.

 

Now, you wanna make me REALLY happy? Expand the deal to include Matt Murton and Aubrey Huff. :D

[NorthsideAvenger]

Look anybody who doesn't think this is a solid deal for the Cubs, is "insane in the membrane."

 

1: Walker is THIRD in the depth chart @ 2B, and with his personality, I think he has a shot at starting at 2B.

 

2: Even Lugo is moved to 2B and his defense takes a hit at 2B, it is still a pretty even trade. Not to mention it would open up 2B for Eric Patterson in 2007.

 

3: The rumor is Williams/Walker for Lugo, unnamed pitcher. My gut feeling is the unname pitcher is either McClung or Fossum. To which it would still be a solid move.

 

Besides anything that keeps Perez from starting is fine by me.

 

I dont understand why you think I am "insane in the membrane." Your first point is untrue and if it was ture, it would just show the stupidity of our manager. Your second point doesnt make sense. 2b isn't any more occupied with Walker on the team then it would be with Lugo, in fact, its probably more open for Patterson with Walker on the team as opposed to Lugo. I dont know much about the McClung you are talking about but if youre talking about Casey Fossum then ew. I'd rather have Walker over Lugo and I'd MUCH rather have Williams over Fossum.

 

First: I am drunk when i WROTE that thread, so excus me.

 

Second: Lugo and Walker brings differnet thign to the table. Lugo brings a better glove, and more speed to the table, with Walker bringing a better bat. But, Lugo may be consider a better fit with the Cubs, becauce it could Hairston/Lugo, Lugo/Cedeno the Cubs would get decent prosuction.

 

Third: EVERYBODY and their mama's know the Cubs were going to trade Walker (and no turning back now) so i doubt the Cubs are going to make a Walker trade that suits your feelings. Getting a decent arm like Fossum, yes, I said DECENT, with Lugo for Walker/Wiliams is a DECENT trade, you're just short-sided at the deal.

 

All this is dependent on Hill/Guzman/Brownlie being able to produce, or Wood coming back strong from surgery, or the Cubs actually getting Zito or Weaver.

 

And no didn't call YOU "insane in the membrane", I'm calling people who doesn't think this deal is solid for the Cubs, "insane." Besides trading for Lugo is BEFITTING off the offseason the Cubs have had, don't you think? Stop overreacting.

 

BOy I don't think I should be drunk while ON The computer, cause I can hardley see streight. .

[Yeti]

what happened to "im lokin for guys that can catch the ball?"

[WrigleyinEngland]

If we do ship away williams with walker we better have a good idea that one of Hill/ Guzman can start from the get-Go and that Weaver can be had on a 1/$8mill kind of deal.

[CuseCubFan69]

So the Cubs after a Lugo deal would have Lugo at SS and Perez at second with Cedeno and Hairston as backups. If they don't make this deal they have Cedeno at SS and Perez at 2B with Hairston the backup. I have to assume that Walker is going to be dealt no matter what.

 

I still don't understand why Tampa would want Walker with Cantu there unless they are going to move Cantu to 3rd.

[CubFanPhilly]

Just say no the mediocre wife abuser please.

 

And before you tell me he was exonerated, think what one might be willing to do if their soon-to-be-millionare husband threatened to dump them if they didn't retract the charges. Ask yourself why Houston cut him loose before he even had his day in court? Could it be because one of these incidents went down in front of the team bus? (That's the story I remember.)

 

Besides, he's just not that good. You can expect Walker/Cedeno to put up a better combined OPS than Lugo/Cedeno. Would the defense be improved enough to make up the difference? I suspect not. Heck, Hairston/Cedeno might put up as much offense.

 

Throw in Williams? Only if you're prepared to start the season with Rusch and Koronka filling out the bottom of the rotation. (I wouldn't bank on Guzman or Hill coming right out of ST.)

 

This only makes sense if it somehow eliminates much of Neifi's time. I don't see how it does that. In fact, I think Baker's Neifi love might be satisfied with less damage to the offense by letting him be an "every day" late innnings defensive replacement for Walker. You know he's going to be one of the first pinch hit options anyway. Neifi can appear in 140 games, for all I care if he makes only 160 or so plate appearances.

 

Just say no Hendry.

[Balsa]

Actually, if we make this deal (which I hope we do with a decent prospect) I beleive it would be Cedeno at SS and Lugo at 2B or the other way 'round. Which would be FANTASTIC.

 

Me likey.

[WrigleyinEngland]

I see little point in debating the idea of walker as a starter. It doesn't matter how we see him , hendry and baker do not want him to start period. I do think a tandom of Lugo at ss and Cedeno at 2B will reduce Perez's playing time and put less pressure on ronnie to hit as he will bat 8th.

[CubFanPhilly]

I see little point in debating the idea of walker as a starter. It doesn't matter how we see him , hendry and baker do not want him to start period.

 

If they're that entrenched in their opinions (and I'll admit they might be) it was lunacy to pick up Walker's option.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

On face value, I say no to this deal. I like Williams and Walker is a better hitter than Lugo. On the other hand, if Hendry is dead set on trading Walker, then I have to look at it as Williams for Lugo. A little pricey, but I could live with that. I'd rather do this deal than to end up watching Hendry trade Walker for someone's crap prospects, and then witness a Cedeno/Neifi infield in 2006.

 

So, while I'm really opposed to this trade, given Hendry one track focus to trade Walker, at least we'd get a decent player in return who we could offer arbitration to and get some additional draft picks for after he leaves.