Big Ten Basketball

[Jon]

I'm not looking forward to facing Penn State. The perimeter defense has really been lacking as of late.

 

I felt like PSU's style of play matched up really well against NU's when I saw them play last weekend. If the Wildcats are just going to shoot 25 foot 3-pointers all game, they are screwed (unless they go like 15-25 from behind the line). If they can get the ball inside, they may have a shot. On the other hand, it's awfully tough to beat the same team 3 times in one season, so history isn't on Penn State's side.

More so than the first matchup, Penn State's defense seemed to be a lot more aggressive against the Princeton offense than any other team's and Northwestern wasn't prepared for it at all. They couldn't hold on to the ball. Amazingly, though, they shot 15/16 from the FT line last night, which is a good sign. It's not going to be another blowout for Penn State, but Northwestern needs to make adjustments if they're going to win. They might have to go inside more, especially considering Penn State's size, but they're just so bad down there. Hopefully they can at least find more backdoor cuts.

[Derwood]

NU had no inside game at all last Saturday, thus no free throws. Penn State is really good at creating turnovers too. When does the TV schedule for the BTT come out? After today's OSU/Purdue game?

[treebird]

LET'S GO PURDUE

 

or something. im not too confident.

[Jon]

NU had no inside game at all last Saturday, thus no free throws. Penn State is really good at creating turnovers too. When does the TV schedule for the BTT come out? After today's OSU/Purdue game?

Northwestern usually doesn't both turn the ball over that many times and commit that many fouls.

The TV schedule is up here.

[treebird]

LET'S GO PURDUE

 

or something. im not too confident.

 

good try losers

 

ps i hate you

[Magnetic Curses]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

[Derwood]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

When Dee is on, this team is fantastic. When he's not (eg vs. Iowa) they are very beatable. That said, they could be a Final Four team and surprise no one.

[illiniguy]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

When Dee is on, this team is fantastic. When he's not (eg vs. Iowa) they are very beatable. That said, they could be a Final Four team and surprise no one.

I think we are better when Dee doesn't have to score, i.e. when Randle and Smith are playing well. An example would be the Wisconsin game when we beat them handily there. 25-5 in a rebuilding year, not to shabby.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that I didn't see the second half yesterday, nor have I looked at the box score, just the final on a ticker.

 

Dee Brown is overrated. He's not a very good scorer at all, 55th of 58 B10 players in PPWS. He's a very good defender, and he does a good job of not turning the ball over and distributing, but in all honesty he doesn't belong on the B10 first team.

 

Now, feel free to say that I hate Illinois and all that it stands for, and that I'm bitter about yesterday or the season or whatever.

[illiniguy]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that I didn't see the second half yesterday, nor have I looked at the box score, just the final on a ticker.

 

Dee Brown is overrated. He's not a very good scorer at all, 55th of 58 B10 players in PPWS. He's a very good defender, and he does a good job of not turning the ball over and distributing, but in all honesty he doesn't belong on the B10 first team.

 

Now, feel free to say that I hate Illinois and all that it stands for, and that I'm bitter about yesterday or the season or whatever.

Ok, you ask Tom Izzo what he thinks of Dee Brown being overrated. Anyone who has played the game at a high level would be the first to tell you that if anything in someways Dee Brown is underrated. All he has done his entire career is win. Maybe Mizzou should pick up some overrated players like Dee Brown. I just get tired of reading this garbage all the time. There is more to playing basketball than scoring. I would say that John Stockton is one of the best players ever to play basketball, did he score over 20 points a game? What number was he in the league with the cute stat you are using. Dee has switched to the most demanding position on the court for his senior year after losing two other NBA guards from his team and all he has done is lead that team to a 25-5 record. If you want overrated look no farther than Paul Leg Cramp Davis. Did Paul ever once beat Illinois in his career?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that I didn't see the second half yesterday, nor have I looked at the box score, just the final on a ticker.

 

Dee Brown is overrated. He's not a very good scorer at all, 55th of 58 B10 players in PPWS. He's a very good defender, and he does a good job of not turning the ball over and distributing, but in all honesty he doesn't belong on the B10 first team.

 

Now, feel free to say that I hate Illinois and all that it stands for, and that I'm bitter about yesterday or the season or whatever.

Ok, you ask Tom Izzo what he thinks of Dee Brown being overrated. Anyone who has played the game at a high level would be the first to tell you that if anything in someways Dee Brown is underrated. All he has done his entire career is win. Maybe Mizzou should pick up some overrated players like Dee Brown. I just get tired of reading this garbage all the time. There is more to playing basketball than scoring. I would say that John Stockton is one of the best players ever to play basketball, did he score over 20 points a game? What number was he in the league with the cute stat you are using. Dee has switched to the most demanding position on the court for his senior year after losing two other NBA guards from his team and all he has done is lead that team to a 25-5 record. If you want overrated look no farther than Paul Leg Cramp Davis. Did Paul ever once beat Illinois in his career?

 

Man you are bitter. It's not about scoring more points, it's about making the shots you do take. Dee has been terrible at that this year. Not just "not amongst the best" at scoring efficiently, but he's one of the worst in the league. The Stockton comparisons are ridiculous. He shot over 50 percent from the field, and he gave out double digit assists per game. Dee is shooting 37 percent from the field, and hands out half as many assists.

 

On another note, mocking Mizzou does you no good, everyone knows they are terrible. Being overrated doesn't mean you aren't a good player, because Dee is good(I pointed out his strengths in the previous post), it just means people make you out to be better than you are. Also, trashing Davis has nothing to do with Dee, but Davis makes his shots and is one of (the?) best rebounders in the conference.

[illiniguy]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that I didn't see the second half yesterday, nor have I looked at the box score, just the final on a ticker.

 

Dee Brown is overrated. He's not a very good scorer at all, 55th of 58 B10 players in PPWS. He's a very good defender, and he does a good job of not turning the ball over and distributing, but in all honesty he doesn't belong on the B10 first team.

 

Now, feel free to say that I hate Illinois and all that it stands for, and that I'm bitter about yesterday or the season or whatever.

Ok, you ask Tom Izzo what he thinks of Dee Brown being overrated. Anyone who has played the game at a high level would be the first to tell you that if anything in someways Dee Brown is underrated. All he has done his entire career is win. Maybe Mizzou should pick up some overrated players like Dee Brown. I just get tired of reading this garbage all the time. There is more to playing basketball than scoring. I would say that John Stockton is one of the best players ever to play basketball, did he score over 20 points a game? What number was he in the league with the cute stat you are using. Dee has switched to the most demanding position on the court for his senior year after losing two other NBA guards from his team and all he has done is lead that team to a 25-5 record. If you want overrated look no farther than Paul Leg Cramp Davis. Did Paul ever once beat Illinois in his career?

 

Man you are bitter. It's not about scoring more points, it's about making the shots you do take. Dee has been terrible at that this year. Not just "not amongst the best" at scoring efficiently, but he's one of the worst in the league. The Stockton comparisons are ridiculous. He shot over 50 percent from the field, and he gave out double digit assists per game. Dee is shooting 37 percent from the field, and hands out half as many assists.

 

On another note, mocking Mizzou does you no good, everyone knows they are terrible. Being overrated doesn't mean you aren't a good player, because Dee is good(I pointed out his strengths in the previous post), it just means people make you out to be better than you are. Also, trashing Davis has nothing to do with Dee, but Davis makes his shots and is one of (the?) best rebounders in the conference.

But he doesn't win. Dee Brown is not overrated. He is a streaky shooter, yes. He is the reigning defensive player of they year. Defense is half of the game. He can create a fast break on his own, which when your team struggles with its offense is a positive. What would Dee be shooting if early in the year he didn't have to force up a shot because his teammates weren't ready to contribute because of lack of playing time and game experience? I brought up Davis because every year every publication predicts him to be the best big man in the big ten, yet every year with great talent around him he finds ways to not win the conference. Ager would also be another player I would consider to be overrated, Especially since he had what 9 ppg (Brian Randle) against Illinois this year? For someone who has these two guys on his team to call Dee Brown overrated is humorous.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Oddly enough, I've seen a lot of Illini fans criticizing Dee Brown and calling him overrated (and I agree with them).

 

Of course that must make me a hater, even though I don't care about some school in downstate Illinois.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that I didn't see the second half yesterday, nor have I looked at the box score, just the final on a ticker.

 

Dee Brown is overrated. He's not a very good scorer at all, 55th of 58 B10 players in PPWS. He's a very good defender, and he does a good job of not turning the ball over and distributing, but in all honesty he doesn't belong on the B10 first team.

 

Now, feel free to say that I hate Illinois and all that it stands for, and that I'm bitter about yesterday or the season or whatever.

Ok, you ask Tom Izzo what he thinks of Dee Brown being overrated. Anyone who has played the game at a high level would be the first to tell you that if anything in someways Dee Brown is underrated. All he has done his entire career is win. Maybe Mizzou should pick up some overrated players like Dee Brown. I just get tired of reading this garbage all the time. There is more to playing basketball than scoring. I would say that John Stockton is one of the best players ever to play basketball, did he score over 20 points a game? What number was he in the league with the cute stat you are using. Dee has switched to the most demanding position on the court for his senior year after losing two other NBA guards from his team and all he has done is lead that team to a 25-5 record. If you want overrated look no farther than Paul Leg Cramp Davis. Did Paul ever once beat Illinois in his career?

 

Man you are bitter. It's not about scoring more points, it's about making the shots you do take. Dee has been terrible at that this year. Not just "not amongst the best" at scoring efficiently, but he's one of the worst in the league. The Stockton comparisons are ridiculous. He shot over 50 percent from the field, and he gave out double digit assists per game. Dee is shooting 37 percent from the field, and hands out half as many assists.

 

On another note, mocking Mizzou does you no good, everyone knows they are terrible. Being overrated doesn't mean you aren't a good player, because Dee is good(I pointed out his strengths in the previous post), it just means people make you out to be better than you are. Also, trashing Davis has nothing to do with Dee, but Davis makes his shots and is one of (the?) best rebounders in the conference.

But he doesn't win. Dee Brown is not overrated. He is a streaky shooter, yes. He is the reigning defensive player of they year. Defense is half of the game. He can create a fast break on his own, which when your team struggles with its offense is a positive. What would Dee be shooting if early in the year he didn't have to force up a shot because his teammates weren't ready to contribute because of lack of playing time and game experience? I brought up Davis because every year every publication predicts him to be the best big man in the big ten, yet every year with great talent around him he finds ways to not win the conference. Ager would also be another player I would consider to be overrated, Especially since he had what 9 ppg (Brian Randle) against Illinois this year? For someone who has these two guys on his team to call Dee Brown overrated is humorous.

 

This doesn't answer any of the points brought up against Brown. He's been a bad shooter this year, that's all there is to it. He's very good at other things, but there are other guards in the conference who can score and defend(Foster and S. Brown to name two).

 

And again, whether or not I root for a team that has 12 overrated players or 0 has no bearing on any evaluation of Brown. But if you want to bring them up, Davis has been very good this year, probably the best overall big man in the conference in terms of scoring, rebounding, and defending. Blaming Davis somehow for MSU not winning the conference is ridiculous. Also ridiculous is claiming that MSU/Davis/Ager "doesn't win"(compare NCAA tourney records between Ager/Davis and Dee, they're basically identical). As far as Ager goes, he's had an up and down year. It's particularly interesting that you use Ager's two poor games against Illinois as somehow evidence of him being overrated, since I'd be justly ripped to shreds for pointing out Dee averaged 6 PPG against Iowa this year. It's not evidence at all. I could probably say some nonsense about every team focusing on him, and drawing the best defender for Shannon to score more or other such nonsense, but that's what it is, nonsense. What happened happened. That said, Ager will probably be overranked by many. He definitely isn't a 1st team all B10 player, and I haven't looked that in-depth at the other players to see how he compares to the rest. However, it's Ager's body of work makes him under/overrated, not two games or his record against one team.

[hawkeyecub]

Illinois just isn't all that consistent this year and while a lot of it falls on Brown, I think more of it is on their role players. OSU has been the most consistent team in the league this year.

 

When Randle, Smith, Pruitt, McBride come to play they can be very good. When two of those guys don't come to play it's all on Dee and Augustine and Brown seems to struggle more.

 

Brown has been a great college player and has had a great career. I really don't think he should be in the MVP discussion though and maybe not on the first team.

[Mark_R]

I think Dee really hurt his draft status this year, but the Big Ten is just littered with mediocre individual players. I like Brunner and Dials, but when the discussion is on them for B10 player of the year, its a weak year for individuals in the conference.

[SouthSideRyan]

Anybody know the tiebreaker between Michigan and MSU? Who gets Minnesota and who gets Purdue?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Anybody know the tiebreaker between Michigan and MSU? Who gets Minnesota and who gets Purdue?

 

Bracket(PDF)

 

Michigan St. gets Purdue(winner gets Illinois), Michigan gets Minnesota(winner gets Iowa)

[snoodmonger]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that I didn't see the second half yesterday, nor have I looked at the box score, just the final on a ticker.

 

Dee Brown is overrated. He's not a very good scorer at all, 55th of 58 B10 players in PPWS. He's a very good defender, and he does a good job of not turning the ball over and distributing, but in all honesty he doesn't belong on the B10 first team.

 

Now, feel free to say that I hate Illinois and all that it stands for, and that I'm bitter about yesterday or the season or whatever.

Ok, you ask Tom Izzo what he thinks of Dee Brown being overrated. Anyone who has played the game at a high level would be the first to tell you that if anything in someways Dee Brown is underrated. All he has done his entire career is win. Maybe Mizzou should pick up some overrated players like Dee Brown. I just get tired of reading this garbage all the time. There is more to playing basketball than scoring. I would say that John Stockton is one of the best players ever to play basketball, did he score over 20 points a game? What number was he in the league with the cute stat you are using. Dee has switched to the most demanding position on the court for his senior year after losing two other NBA guards from his team and all he has done is lead that team to a 25-5 record. If you want overrated look no farther than Paul Leg Cramp Davis. Did Paul ever once beat Illinois in his career?

 

Dustyism. Wins are a team stat, one that Dee isn't solely responsible for. It's only barely relevant when evaluating individual players.

[Derwood]

Dustyism. Wins are a team stat, one that Dee isn't solely responsible for. It's only barely relevant when evaluating individual players.

 

agreed. The white guy at the end of the bench the last 2 or 3 years has the same winning % as Brown. So what?

[biittner77]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

I'm really worried about the 1st round no matter who Illinois plays. They've been a terrible foul shooting team all season and that has been the undoing of many Illinois teams in the past.

 

With a good showing in the Big 10 tournament Illinois gets a 3rd seed. The committee will reward the Big East and rightfully so. Plus, with OSU winning the regular season title (good thing Illinois saw fit to lose at home to Penn St. ](*,) a lot depends on where they wind up. Here on the East coast nobody seems to know what to make of the Big 10. Is it a really good conference where they've beaten each other up or are they as mediocre as some of the records suggest?

[hawkeyecub]

I think Dee really hurt his draft status this year, but the Big Ten is just littered with mediocre individual players. I like Brunner and Dials, but when the discussion is on them for B10 player of the year, its a weak year for individuals in the conference.

 

I don't know about that. I wouldn't argue that some of the top Big Ten players this year will have a hard time making it in the NBA, but they have been great college players.

Brunner was runner-up for the rebounding title in his sophomore and junior years and won it this year. Not bad for a 6'7 guy. Dials and Brunner have just been the model of consistency the last few years and you could put Augustine in that group too and even Alando Tucker for the last 3 years.

Dee and Jeff Horner have been constants at the top of the assist leaderboard for 3-4 years and Daniel Horton is having a huge senior year as a PG.

Davis, Brown and Ager have been forces and probably the best 3-man group on any team in the league, they just haven't won enough this year to get votes. Killingsworth put up monster numbers, but again they just went in the tank for too long and he tends to disappear.

 

I think there is a lot of talent in the Big Ten this year, and especially a lot of talented upperclassmen. Some of these guys have been forces for 3-4 years in the league. There probably isn't that one or two guys who have just stood out as superstars and will be sure things in the NBA. But I think there are a lot of talented guys who have been great college players who won't really be recognized for how good they were until they're gone.

[bukie]

boy, dee came to play yesterday, didn't he? huge game, huge win, maybe we can stop all the talk about dee being overrated. i understand there are a lot of people out there who absolutely hate the illini and malign any success they may have, but let's give credit where it's due.

 

MSU didn't play poorly and the illini still beat them fairly handily on their home court. illinois is a #2, if they're not, it's a crime.

 

I'm really worried about the 1st round no matter who Illinois plays. They've been a terrible foul shooting team all season and that has been the undoing of many Illinois teams in the past.

 

With a good showing in the Big 10 tournament Illinois gets a 3rd seed. The committee will reward the Big East and rightfully so. Plus, with OSU winning the regular season title (good thing Illinois saw fit to lose at home to Penn St. ](*,) a lot depends on where they wind up. Here on the East coast nobody seems to know what to make of the Big 10. Is it a really good conference where they've beaten each other up or are they as mediocre as some of the records suggest?

 

I think a loss in the conference tournament quarters nets Illinois a 3 seed. Right now they are looking at a 2 seed if they do well, but hard to put them behind just 3 teams for a 1 no matter how things shake out. I would think the only way the Illini get a 1 is if either 2 Big Ten teams get 1's, or the committee decides based on an Illinois/Ohio State BTT final who gets a 1 and who gets a 2.

 

Right now, I think Connecticut and Villanova are 1's no matter what happens. Duke should also be a #1 if they can win a game in the ACC tournament. The fourth right now, IMO, is Ohio State, ahead of Memphis, Gonzaga, GW, Texas and Illinois.

[UMFan83]

I don't think Ohio State is going to get a number one unless they win the BTT.

 

But they should considering they lost all 4 of their games in the nation's second toughest conference and have been on a role lately.

 

However, I think a team like Memphis, despite the loss will get the #1 seed.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think as long as Illinois wins 1 game in the Big 10 tourney they get a 2 seed.

 

It looks like UConn, Nova, Duke, Memphis, Ohio St., Gonzaga, Texas, and Illinois as the 1s and 2s IMO.