[wade]

 

How many 24 year old pitchers win 18 games more than once? If you're sick of waiting for prospects to pan out that's your own fault. There's been nothing wrong with Prior's progression. You want to talk about a prospect that hasn't panned out, look at the supposedly untouchable Bedard, who is older and far less accomplished than Prior. Tejada makes the Cubs better, losing Prior makes them worse. The Cubs have built this team around pitching and would be destroying their only strength if this deal is made. They would have to win the WS in the next 2 years to justify this trade, but they would not have the pitching the be serious contenders after such a move. Tejada will be 30 next season, past his prime. Those accomplishments you list are in his past. Players best years are in the 26-28 range, middle infielders often have to switch positions, or turn into defensive liabilities in their 30s because range takes a hit.

 

The best teams acquire players before they achieve their best success, they don't trade pre-prime players (like Prior) for post-prime players (like Tejada), and they especially do not sweeten the deal with extra prospects.

 

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

Would having one of the best INF's in the league really be a strength if we had to decimate our rotation in order to get it?

 

It's never a good idea to create one hole to fill another.

 

You're right. Having Neifi start at SS is a much better option.

 

Almost as good as Rusch starting games instead of Prior.

[Roast]

 

How many 24 year old pitchers win 18 games more than once? If you're sick of waiting for prospects to pan out that's your own fault. There's been nothing wrong with Prior's progression. You want to talk about a prospect that hasn't panned out, look at the supposedly untouchable Bedard, who is older and far less accomplished than Prior. Tejada makes the Cubs better, losing Prior makes them worse. The Cubs have built this team around pitching and would be destroying their only strength if this deal is made. They would have to win the WS in the next 2 years to justify this trade, but they would not have the pitching the be serious contenders after such a move. Tejada will be 30 next season, past his prime. Those accomplishments you list are in his past. Players best years are in the 26-28 range, middle infielders often have to switch positions, or turn into defensive liabilities in their 30s because range takes a hit.

 

The best teams acquire players before they achieve their best success, they don't trade pre-prime players (like Prior) for post-prime players (like Tejada), and they especially do not sweeten the deal with extra prospects.

 

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

Would having one of the best INF's in the league really be a strength if we had to decimate our rotation in order to get it?

 

It's never a good idea to create one hole to fill another.

 

You're right. Having Neifi start at SS is a much better option.

 

CEDENO. Hendry already said (this was before the whole Tejada thng to started) that cedeno would be our SS going into 06. I think it was his way of saying "play him, dusty". And I still say that we shouldnt do this. Starting pitching is our strength right now. Offense is a big weakness. We do this deal, and our offense is now "good" (we still have a sad outfield) and our pitching is questionable.

[goonys evil twin]

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

The IF becomes a strenght, but then the pitching becomes a weakness. I'm not the one who said it would be the worst in my lifetime. But I'm much more likely to side with the person who makes that claim than the person who has no problem dealing Prior because he's only won 18 games once so far in his career. There's a really good chance that Prior will have the best career of anybody the Cubs developed in my lifetime outside of Maddux, and he wasn't traded. So it could end up being the worst trade.

 

Let's say Tejada comes here, has a nice 2-3 years then settles into one of those guys living off his reputation (occasionally looking great but largely much less productive than his former self). During that time the Cubs pitching is highly questionable, Lee returns to normal and the team fails to make any postseason noice. Meanwhile, over the next 10 years Prior develops into a top 5 pitcher in the game, consistently posts a 3.50 ERA or lower, wins 12-20 games a year, and picks up a Cy Young. This set of circumstances is hardly far from possible, and would leave most Cubs fans absolutely disgusted by the results of the trade.

 

The Cubs would have to win it all in 2006 or 2007 to make that trade seem justified, but their pitching would have taken such a big hit that their odds would be no better than if they just maintained status quo.

[Roast]

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

The IF becomes a strenght, but then the pitching becomes a weakness. I'm not the one who said it would be the worst in my lifetime. But I'm much more likely to side with the person who makes that claim than the person who has no problem dealing Prior because he's only won 18 games once so far in his career. There's a really good chance that Prior will have the best career of anybody the Cubs developed in my lifetime outside of Maddux, and he wasn't traded. So it could end up being the worst trade.

 

Let's say Tejada comes here, has a nice 2-3 years then settles into one of those guys living off his reputation (occasionally looking great but largely much less productive than his former self). During that time the Cubs pitching is highly questionable, Lee returns to normal and the team fails to make any postseason noice. Meanwhile, over the next 10 years Prior develops into a top 5 pitcher in the game, consistently posts a 3.50 ERA or lower, wins 12-20 games a year, and picks up a Cy Young. This set of circumstances is hardly far from possible, and would leave most Cubs fans absolutely disgusted by the results of the trade.

 

The Cubs would have to win it all in 2006 or 2007 to make that trade seem justified, but their pitching would have taken such a big hit that their odds would be no better than if they just maintained status quo.

 

What he said.

[erik316wttn]

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

The IF becomes a strenght, but then the pitching becomes a weakness. I'm not the one who said it would be the worst in my lifetime. But I'm much more likely to side with the person who makes that claim than the person who has no problem dealing Prior because he's only won 18 games once so far in his career. There's a really good chance that Prior will have the best career of anybody the Cubs developed in my lifetime outside of Maddux, and he wasn't traded. So it could end up being the worst trade.

 

Let's say Tejada comes here, has a nice 2-3 years then settles into one of those guys living off his reputation (occasionally looking great but largely much less productive than his former self). During that time the Cubs pitching is highly questionable, Lee returns to normal and the team fails to make any postseason noice. Meanwhile, over the next 10 years Prior develops into a top 5 pitcher in the game, consistently posts a 3.50 ERA or lower, wins 12-20 games a year, and picks up a Cy Young. This set of circumstances is hardly far from possible, and would leave most Cubs fans absolutely disgusted by the results of the trade.

 

The Cubs would have to win it all in 2006 or 2007 to make that trade seem justified, but their pitching would have taken such a big hit that their odds would be no better than if they just maintained status quo.

 

What he said.

 

I don't often agree with you, but this time I'll say "Preach it, Goony!"

[8-8-88]

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

The IF becomes a strenght, but then the pitching becomes a weakness. I'm not the one who said it would be the worst in my lifetime. But I'm much more likely to side with the person who makes that claim than the person who has no problem dealing Prior because he's only won 18 games once so far in his career. There's a really good chance that Prior will have the best career of anybody the Cubs developed in my lifetime outside of Maddux, and he wasn't traded. So it could end up being the worst trade.

 

Let's say Tejada comes here, has a nice 2-3 years then settles into one of those guys living off his reputation (occasionally looking great but largely much less productive than his former self). During that time the Cubs pitching is highly questionable, Lee returns to normal and the team fails to make any postseason noice. Meanwhile, over the next 10 years Prior develops into a top 5 pitcher in the game, consistently posts a 3.50 ERA or lower, wins 12-20 games a year, and picks up a Cy Young. This set of circumstances is hardly far from possible, and would leave most Cubs fans absolutely disgusted by the results of the trade.

 

The Cubs would have to win it all in 2006 or 2007 to make that trade seem justified, but their pitching would have taken such a big hit that their odds would be no better than if they just maintained status quo.

 

There is a chance that this might happen. There is also a chance that Prior's arm falls off. It's obvious that most people on this board feel that the risk highly outweighs the reward. I just don't feel that the Cubs starting pitching is not as good as everyone makes it out to be. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Roast]

Heads Up: Bruce will be on ESPN1000 at 4:20 for those couple of people who are interested in this :wink:

 

 

heh heh heh. Does anyone else find it ironic that Levine will be reporting at 4:20

....Heh. ANyways... I figure I'll listen in to this.

[FergieJ31]

...Let's say Tejada comes here, has a nice 2-3 years then settles into one of those guys living off his reputation (occasionally looking great but largely much less productive than his former self). During that time the Cubs pitching is highly questionable, Lee returns to normal and the team fails to make any postseason noice. Meanwhile, over the next 10 years Prior develops into a top 5 pitcher in the game, consistently posts a 3.50 ERA or lower, wins 12-20 games a year, and picks up a Cy Young. This set of circumstances is hardly far from possible, and would leave most Cubs fans absolutely disgusted by the results of the trade.

 

not merely far from possible, this is a probable scenario IMHO.

[Roast]

 

There is a chance that this might happen. There is also a chance that Prior's arm falls off.

 

Oh noes.

 

PRIOR IS NOT FREAKIN INJURY PRONE. He got hit in the arm by a freak line drive. NOT INJURY PRONE. Therefore the chance that his arm falls of is highly highly highly HIGHLY unlikely.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Gut check time. Does some sort of Prior for Tejada deal happen? I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

[SeldomSeen]

How many 24 year old pitchers win 18 games more than once? If you're sick of waiting for prospects to pan out that's your own fault. There's been nothing wrong with Prior's progression. You want to talk about a prospect that hasn't panned out, look at the supposedly untouchable Bedard, who is older and far less accomplished than Prior. Tejada makes the Cubs better, losing Prior makes them worse. The Cubs have built this team around pitching and would be destroying their only strength if this deal is made. They would have to win the WS in the next 2 years to justify this trade, but they would not have the pitching the be serious contenders after such a move. Tejada will be 30 next season, past his prime. Those accomplishments you list are in his past. Players best years are in the 26-28 range, middle infielders often have to switch positions, or turn into defensive liabilities in their 30s because range takes a hit.

 

The best teams acquire players before they achieve their best success, they don't trade pre-prime players (like Prior) for post-prime players (like Tejada), and they especially do not sweeten the deal with extra prospects.

 

I agree 100%. If Tejada were younger, left handed, played RF (pre-Jock signing), and without steroid suspicion, I'd think more of this proposal. As it is I think there is far too much risk involved. Prior's potential to string together 20 win/ sub 3.5 (or even <3.00) ERA seasons shouldn't be taken so lightly, imo.

[USSoccer]

If the Cubs acquired Tejada they would have one of the best IF's in the league. How is that not a strength? Now don't get me wrong, I love Prior, I just don't see how this is the WORST Cubbie trade in your lifetime. When you are looking at Tejada's achievments, do you just throw them out the window? He still had a great year last year for a SS.

 

The IF becomes a strenght, but then the pitching becomes a weakness. I'm not the one who said it would be the worst in my lifetime. But I'm much more likely to side with the person who makes that claim than the person who has no problem dealing Prior because he's only won 18 games once so far in his career. There's a really good chance that Prior will have the best career of anybody the Cubs developed in my lifetime outside of Maddux, and he wasn't traded. So it could end up being the worst trade.

 

Let's say Tejada comes here, has a nice 2-3 years then settles into one of those guys living off his reputation (occasionally looking great but largely much less productive than his former self). During that time the Cubs pitching is highly questionable, Lee returns to normal and the team fails to make any postseason noice. Meanwhile, over the next 10 years Prior develops into a top 5 pitcher in the game, consistently posts a 3.50 ERA or lower, wins 12-20 games a year, and picks up a Cy Young. This set of circumstances is hardly far from possible, and would leave most Cubs fans absolutely disgusted by the results of the trade.

 

The Cubs would have to win it all in 2006 or 2007 to make that trade seem justified, but their pitching would have taken such a big hit that their odds would be no better than if they just maintained status quo.

 

There is a chance that this might happen. There is also a chance that Prior's arm falls off. It's obvious that most people on this board feel that the risk highly outweighs the reward. I just don't feel that the Cubs starting pitching is not as good as everyone makes it out to be. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

The best case scenario for the rotation is that Z becomes a clear #1, but then we don't really have a #2. Maddux and Rusch are #5's, Williams is a #4, and Bedard and Wood are #3's. Plus we lose one of our backup SP's in Hill, which means if Wood doesn't come back well, our rotation looks like this:

 

Z

Bedard

Williams

Maddux

Rusch.

 

Even if Wood comes back,

 

Z

Wood

Bedard

Williams

Maddux

 

is not that gfreat.

 

That's a really suspect rotation. REALLY suspect. Instead of losing 3-2, we'll be losing 6-5.

[goonys evil twin]

There is a chance that this might happen. There is also a chance that Prior's arm falls off. It's obvious that most people on this board feel that the risk highly outweighs the reward. I just don't feel that the Cubs starting pitching is not as good as everyone makes it out to be. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

There is a difference between talking about likely career projections and possibly career projections. Sure, there's a chance Miggy finds a great new form of B-12 shot and doesn't age like most ballplayers, or that Prior decides to head off to Asia to practice yoga and smoke dope. We're talking likelihoods and probabilities here. A GM's job is to make his team better, not just shake things up. This would be a shake things up move, not a make the team better move.

 

The Cubs pitching is not as good as some make it out to be, which is exactly why they can't afford to lose Prior. You don't fix a questionable rotation by dealing away your 2nd best pitcher, leaving them with 4 highly questionable arms.

[Outshined_One]

 

There is a chance that this might happen. There is also a chance that Prior's arm falls off.

 

Oh noes.

 

PRIOR IS NOT FREAKIN INJURY PRONE. He got hit in the arm by a freak line drive. NOT INJURY PRONE. Therefore the chance that his arm falls of is highly highly highly HIGHLY unlikely.

 

Then again, Dusty could always trot Prior out there and set all kinds of pitch count records. Great mechanics or not, there is the Baker Factor to take into account.

[Roast]

Instead of losing 3-2, we'll be losing 6-5.

 

I dont know why, but that made me laugh.

 

Sadly however, its exactly the case.

[Roast]

 

There is a chance that this might happen. There is also a chance that Prior's arm falls off.

 

Oh noes.

 

PRIOR IS NOT FREAKIN INJURY PRONE. He got hit in the arm by a freak line drive. NOT INJURY PRONE. Therefore the chance that his arm falls of is highly highly highly HIGHLY unlikely.

 

Then again, Dusty could always trot Prior out there and set all kinds of pitch count records. Great mechanics or not, there is the Baker Factor to take into account.

 

He could do that to every pitcher. does that mean we should have 25 position players on our team to stop that from happening?

[SeldomSeen]

Gut check time. Does some sort of Prior for Tejada deal happen? I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

 

 

No.

[Bull]

 

There is a chance that this might happen. There is also a chance that Prior's arm falls off.

 

Oh noes.

 

PRIOR IS NOT FREAKIN INJURY PRONE. He got hit in the arm by a freak line drive. NOT INJURY PRONE. Therefore the chance that his arm falls of is highly highly highly HIGHLY unlikely.

 

Then again, Dusty could always trot Prior out there and set all kinds of pitch count records. Great mechanics or not, there is the Baker Factor to take into account.

 

 

 

He could do that to every pitcher. does that mean we should have 25 position players on our team to stop that from happening?

hmmm now there's an idea. We knew Hendry would find a way to Dusty-proof this team. That hendry; he's smart. Edited December 27, 2005 by Bull

[Roast]

Gut check time. Does some sort of Prior for Tejada deal happen? I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

 

 

No.

 

I hope not, but i think so...

[goonys evil twin]

I agree 100%. If Tejada were younger, left handed, played RF (pre-Jock signing), and without steroid suspicion, I'd think more of this proposal. As it is I think there is far too much risk involved. Prior's potential to string together 20 win/ sub 3.5 (or even <3.00) ERA seasons shouldn't be taken so lightly, imo.

 

If he played RF his production would be far less impressive. The bulk of his value comes from the position he plays on the field. He's not a triple crown threat by any stretch. He's not a 3 or 4 hitter on a big budget team.

[erik316wttn]

Gut check time. Does some sort of Prior for Tejada deal happen? I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

 

Then if the Orioles are so desperate to give him up, we should be able to get him for less than Prior.

 

You know, sort of the reverse of the Sammy trade last year.

 

And USSoccer, you stole my line. I had that "instead of losing 3-2, we'd lose 6-5" typed out, but then deleted it.

 

Great minds think alike.

[Bull]

Gut check time. Does some sort of Prior for Tejada deal happen? I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

 

 

No.

 

I hope not, but i think so...

 

sadly, yes.

[TXCubsFan]

...Let's say Tejada comes here, has a nice 2-3 years then settles into one of those guys living off his reputation (occasionally looking great but largely much less productive than his former self). During that time the Cubs pitching is highly questionable, Lee returns to normal and the team fails to make any postseason noice. Meanwhile, over the next 10 years Prior develops into a top 5 pitcher in the game, consistently posts a 3.50 ERA or lower, wins 12-20 games a year, and picks up a Cy Young. This set of circumstances is hardly far from possible, and would leave most Cubs fans absolutely disgusted by the results of the trade.

 

not merely far from possible, this is a probable scenario IMHO.

 

Or perhaps we'll see another scenario, where the Cub offense sucks like a bilge pump for the next two years because (1) they didn't get Tejada and (2) Pie flames out at AAA, so their great pitching goes to waste, especially since Hill tops out as a LOOGY.

 

The 2003 WS Champs are now a AAA team, and the 2004 WS Champs may be playing for third in their division in 2006. Baseball is an unpredictable game.

[goonys evil twin]

Gut check time. Does some sort of Prior for Tejada deal happen? I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

 

 

No.

 

I hope not, but i think so...

 

I really have no idea, but I'm going to guess something happens here. There's usually not a lot of smoke around Hendry moves unless they actually end up happening (Maddux, Barrett, Nomar, Jacque), or at least get very very close (Furcal).

[FergieJ31]

> I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

 

The holidays gave the powers-that-be a brief respite from thinking about this deal. If it's really true the Cubs have their final offer(s) on the table, negotiations are over and I don't see why it should take longer than tomorrow or Thu for the O's to pull the trigger, and they'd be idiots not to (please let them be idiots ).