Abreu to Houston Rumor

[JeffH]

Here's my guess:

 

Ensberg and Backe for Abreu, Bell, and cash.

 

The Astros don't think Ensberg is worth what he's going to get paid here over the next couple of years.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's not a difficult argument to make that Williams(or any starting pitcher of a certain ability) is at least as valuable as Lidge, if not more.

 

WHAT?!? Williams is at least as valuable as Lidge? Please, let's hear this argument...

 

Williams(or other SP) is going to pitch 3 times as many innings as Lidge will in a given season. Therefore, even though his performance isn't as dominant as Lidge's, he's worth more to the team because the quantity outweighs the marginal difference in quality.

 

 

I undertsand your point but I think, if given the opportunity, the Phillies would like to replace Wagner before acquiring a middle of the rotation guy. Closers are much harder to acquire.

 

They just gave Gordon 3/18, so it's a strong possibility that they see that hole filled.

[8-8-88]

Maybe Hendry is still holding back dealing prospects until he gets a final confirmation from the Orioles about Tejada's future. Maybe if the Orioles finally tell him there is no way they are trading Tejada, Hendry will finally start to focus on Abreu. Just trying to stay positive here.

[Magnetic Curses]

It's not a difficult argument to make that Williams(or any starting pitcher of a certain ability) is at least as valuable as Lidge, if not more.

 

WHAT?!? Williams is at least as valuable as Lidge? Please, let's hear this argument...

 

Williams(or other SP) is going to pitch 3 times as many innings as Lidge will in a given season. Therefore, even though his performance isn't as dominant as Lidge's, he's worth more to the team because the quantity outweighs the marginal difference in quality.

 

 

I undertsand your point but I think, if given the opportunity, the Phillies would like to replace Wagner before acquiring a middle of the rotation guy. Closers are much harder to acquire.

 

i just don't know why they'd want to go and acquire another bullpen arm in exchange for their best player when what they need is a starter.

 

there, i said it again. is anyone listening to me?

[CuseCubFan69]

Maybe Hendry is still holding back dealing prospects until he gets a final confirmation from the Orioles about Tejada's future. Maybe if the Orioles finally tell him there is no way they are trading Tejada, Hendry will finally start to focus on Abreu. Just trying to stay positive here.

 

I hope you're right because sometimes I wonder if Hendry is just getting ready for a long winters nap.

[Magnetic Curses]

Maybe Hendry is still holding back dealing prospects until he gets a final confirmation from the Orioles about Tejada's future. Maybe if the Orioles finally tell him there is no way they are trading Tejada, Hendry will finally start to focus on Abreu. Just trying to stay positive here.

 

well, he's waiting himself right out of a job then.

[JeffH]

Hendry is, rightly, not going to deal Pie, so that's not realistic.

 

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer.

 

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

[Magnetic Curses]

btw- this team needs abreu a heck of a lot more than it needs tejada.

 

so, if he's waiting on tejada and ignoring the venezulan god of walks, he shouldn't be running a baseball team.

[Blueheart05]

if the astros acquire abreu for a combo of wheeler, qualls, and backe, hendry is a bigger idiot than i ever gave him credit for.

 

does he not understand that he could not only blow any deal houston could make away, but he could also assume all of abreu's contract, plus the remaining portion of thome's contract which the phillies owe?

 

if the astros get abreu, i won't watch the cubs until hendry is fired.

 

The Astros might also be willing to part with Lidge in a deal for Abreu which trumps anything we'd be willing to offer.

 

i don't think the astros would give up lidge.

 

Well, that's yet to be seen but there have been reports that he's being shopped and his name has definitely been mentioned in trade rumors. Even the Chronicle says teams have been inquiring about his status. If he was untouchable McClain would have put an end to the rumblings like Hendry did for the Prior and Zambrano rumors.

 

i just doubt that philly would ask for lidge in return, as they don't really need to swap their best position player for a closer.

 

if philly is smart, they ask for oswalt.

 

 

The report I read out of Houston last month or earlier this month stated that Houston would shop Lidge for the right deal because they are confident that Wheeler can close. My guess is that they wouldn't part with Oswalt considering the loss of Clemens. The seem to be eager to deal Backe however (probably because they feel Astasio is ready).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Hendry is, rightly, not going to deal Pie, so that's not realistic.

 

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer.

 

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

 

I'll bite. Because the .787 is likely an aberration stemming partly because of an off-field incident, and because there is a massive, massive, massive difference in plate discipline between the two.

[Banedon]

Hendry is, rightly, not going to deal Pie, so that's not realistic.

 

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer.

 

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

 

If you can trade an unproven commodity for a well-proven one, and you have the pockets to absorb that salary...why not? The Cubs have extra payroll to spend, so it's not like we need to be frugal here. Yes...maybe Pie turns into this baseball God, but Corey Patterson got a lot of hype...would you have traded him back before he came to the majors?

Edited December 20, 2005 by Banedon

[Magnetic Curses]

if the astros acquire abreu for a combo of wheeler, qualls, and backe, hendry is a bigger idiot than i ever gave him credit for.

 

does he not understand that he could not only blow any deal houston could make away, but he could also assume all of abreu's contract, plus the remaining portion of thome's contract which the phillies owe?

 

if the astros get abreu, i won't watch the cubs until hendry is fired.

 

The Astros might also be willing to part with Lidge in a deal for Abreu which trumps anything we'd be willing to offer.

 

i don't think the astros would give up lidge.

 

Well, that's yet to be seen but there have been reports that he's being shopped and his name has definitely been mentioned in trade rumors. Even the Chronicle says teams have been inquiring about his status. If he was untouchable McClain would have put an end to the rumblings like Hendry did for the Prior and Zambrano rumors.

 

i just doubt that philly would ask for lidge in return, as they don't really need to swap their best position player for a closer.

 

if philly is smart, they ask for oswalt.

 

 

The report I read out of Houston last month or earlier this month stated that Houston would shop Lidge for the right deal because they are confident that Wheeler can close. My guess is that they wouldn't part with Oswalt considering the loss of Clemens. The seem to be eager to deal Backe however (probably because they feel Astasio is ready).

 

so it's houston that has mentioned lidge? makes a lot of sense. i don't know why philly would want lidge.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

It's not a difficult argument to make that Williams(or any starting pitcher of a certain ability) is at least as valuable as Lidge, if not more.

 

Would you trade Williams for Lidge?

[Magnetic Curses]

Hendry is, rightly, not going to deal Pie, so that's not realistic.

 

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer.

 

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

 

I'll bite. Because the .787 is likely an aberration stemming partly because of an off-field incident, and because there is a massive, massive, massive difference in plate discipline between the two.

 

massive is not the right word. there is a difference in discipline the size of the grand canyon between the two. and one is a freaking proven commodity while the other hasn't played in the majors yet.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's not a difficult argument to make that Williams(or any starting pitcher of a certain ability) is at least as valuable as Lidge, if not more.

 

Would you trade Williams for Lidge?

 

No.

[E.J.]

If we sign J. Jones and the Astros trade for Abreu I'm going to be pretty upset. :evil:

[Tracer Bullet]

It's not a difficult argument to make that Williams(or any starting pitcher of a certain ability) is at least as valuable as Lidge, if not more.

 

Would you trade Williams for Lidge?

 

I wouldn't.

[Blueheart05]

Hendry is, rightly, not going to deal Pie, so that's not realistic.

 

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer.

 

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

 

I agree. I also don't think the Cubs would give up 4 young players to get him. The loss of Pie, Williams, Nova, and Wuertz (as someone suggested) would hurt the Cubs more in the long run. On the other hand, I see the Lidge deal as more of an equal value trade. Lidge will be 30 next year.

[stitchface]

Hendry is, rightly, not going to deal Pie, so that's not realistic.

 

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer.

 

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

 

because the cubs are trying to win now. Pie may or may not be a good player in a couple years.

[Blueheart05]

It's not a difficult argument to make that Williams(or any starting pitcher of a certain ability) is at least as valuable as Lidge, if not more.

 

Would you trade Williams for Lidge?

 

No, we don't need Lidge but at this point we need Williams or another SP.

[BigbadB]

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

 

Because Hendry dropped the ball on Giles. :D

 

Doesn't seem like Hendry is interested in Abreu, either, so it's pretty much a moot point.

[stitchface]

Hendry is, rightly, not going to deal Pie, so that's not realistic.

 

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer.

 

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

 

I agree. I also don't think the Cubs would give up 4 young players to get him. The loss of Pie, Williams, Nova, and Wuertz (as someone suggested) would hurt the Cubs more in the long run. On the other hand, I see the Lidge deal as more of an equal value trade. Lidge will be 30 next year.

 

this would be a foolish deal for the phillies. I'm not sure they would see it that way however.

[CuseCubFan69]

If we sign J. Jones and the Astros trade for Abreu I'm going to be pretty upset. :evil:

 

Hendry was upset that Philly doesn't double coupons and is taking his business elsewhere. I expect the next OF to be found at a garage sale.

[ChiCubsFan]

Hendry is, rightly, not going to deal Pie, so that's not realistic.

 

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer.

 

I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it.

 

Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons?

 

And not only him, but other valuable players, too?

 

Goodness gracious.

 

There's quite a few reasons. Pie is not a sure thing. Sure he's put up some good minor league numbers and as you said, scouts well, but everyone remembers the Corey Pattersons, Hee Seop Chois, and other Cubs prospects who were supposed to be cant-miss prospects and turned into nothing great. If you can get stud value for Pie, you did it. And yes, Abreu IS a stud. He's had only 1 year since 1998 with an OBP below .400 (in 2001 he only posted a .393 OBP). He also has had a slugging at .468 or better every year since 1998. Is that not enough? He has also stolen 19 or more bases every year since 98. (Just for the record, I dont think his stolen bases are much of an asset b/c he gets caught a lot, but his overall speed on the bases and in the field are nice to have). He also has a very good arm and pretty good defense in the outfield. Basically he walks like crazy, gets a lot of extra base hits, and plays good defense. I'd trade an unknown and unproven player like Pie in a heartbeat. Also, the money isn't much of a factor because we have a lot of leftover money to spend. Basically Pie for Abreu is a no-brainer in my eyes.

[JeffH]

we have a lot of leftover money to spend.

 

Separate issue, but I don't believe we have as much money left to spend as most here think we do. This is especially true if Prior is indeed eligible for arbitration.