Some comfort about the Pierre Trade--Renyel Pinto

[treebird]

The Cubs aren't going to an 8 man rotation and if they could have got Dunn or Abreu for Nolasco, Pinto and whoever, the deal would have already been done. It was a solid deal.

 

good point, the cubs better trade pie, harvey and hill for aubrey huff since we cant get anything better

[CubfaninCA]

The Cubs aren't going to an 8 man rotation and if they could have got Dunn or Abreu for Nolasco, Pinto and whoever, the deal would have already been done. It was a solid deal.

 

good point, the cubs better trade pie, harvey and hill for aubrey huff since we cant get anything better

 

You missed the point. When did I say that the Cubs have depth in the outfield?

[ShawonOmeter12]

first off i hope that people quit bringing up willis because no one saw that coming. if u insist on always using willis as your point i will use choi and hill for lee and ramirez. also mitre is a decent pitcher but he would never crack the rotation or the pen for the cubs so not a big loss. u can call mitre a #4 starter if u are the marlins but if u are the cubs u call him a AAA at best player. pinto has potential but it looks like he is doing the same thing over the winter that he did for iowa, TERRIBLE. nolasco is where it gets dicey but to get something you need you have to trade someone, teams arent just going to give u a solid leadoff hitter for a box of cracker jacks. i am happy that hendry is trading from a strength and not trading away hitting prospects because we are a bit thin there.

[goonys evil twin]

first off i hope that people quit bringing up willis because no one saw that coming.

 

Not true.

 

It's not just Willis, it's the idea of trading good young prospects for mediocre veterans. I have no problem trading away prospects, even if they end up really good in a couple years. But when you do it, you better trade for really good veterans, and Pierre is not really good.

[treebird]

The Cubs aren't going to an 8 man rotation and if they could have got Dunn or Abreu for Nolasco, Pinto and whoever, the deal would have already been done. It was a solid deal.

 

good point, the cubs better trade pie, harvey and hill for aubrey huff since we cant get anything better

 

You missed the point. When did I say that the Cubs have depth in the outfield?

 

the cubs have so much depth the glendon rusch is in the starting rotation. also, when you account for the fact that something like 80% of these guys are going to get hurt, i dont know why you go out of your way to make sure you don't have too many good young pitchers.

[Blueheart05]

The Cubs aren't going to an 8 man rotation and if they could have got Dunn or Abreu for Nolasco, Pinto and whoever, the deal would have already been done. It was a solid deal.

 

good point, the cubs better trade pie, harvey and hill for aubrey huff since we cant get anything better

 

You missed the point. When did I say that the Cubs have depth in the outfield?

 

the cubs have so much depth the glendon rusch is in the starting rotation. also, when you account for the fact that something like 80% of these guys are going to get hurt, i dont know why you go out of your way to make sure you don't have too many good young pitchers.

 

 

80% hurt? Wood is a given but I'm not in favor of calling Prior's flukish injuries chronic (of course, if he isn't ready to go out of ST I might. LOL). The Cubs should have 5 servicable (uninjured) arms on opening day.

 

I don't have a problem with Rusch per say if he's 4th or 5th in the rotation. The problem is that with Woody hurt (again), Williams is also thrusted into the spotlight which leaves three (Maddux, Rusch, and Williams) of the 5 guys as question marks for effectiveness.

[goonys evil twin]

80% hurt? Wood is a given but I'm not in favor of calling Prior's flukish injuries chronic (of course, if he isn't ready to go out of ST I might. LOL). The Cubs should have 5 servicable (uninjured) arms on opening day.

 

 

If that's the criteria than they'll probably have 5 servicable (uninjured) outfielders on opening day as well. That doesn't mean they'll be any good, just like Rusch or Maddux being healthy in April doesn't mean they'll be any good in April.

[CubfaninCA]

The Cubs aren't going to an 8 man rotation and if they could have got Dunn or Abreu for Nolasco, Pinto and whoever, the deal would have already been done. It was a solid deal.

 

good point, the cubs better trade pie, harvey and hill for aubrey huff since we cant get anything better

 

You missed the point. When did I say that the Cubs have depth in the outfield?

 

the cubs have so much depth the glendon rusch is in the starting rotation. also, when you account for the fact that something like 80% of these guys are going to get hurt, i dont know why you go out of your way to make sure you don't have too many good young pitchers.

 

When's Wood supposed to be back? And Rusch isn't that bad and he was brought back to be a swingman. Also, they could still sign a pitcher.

 

If you're counting on 80% getting hurt, then the Cubs should draft 90% pitchers.

[goonys evil twin]

When's Wood supposed to be back? And Rusch isn't that bad and he was brought back to be a swingman. Also, they could still sign a pitcher.

 

If you're counting on 80% getting hurt, then the Cubs should draft 90% pitchers.

 

I'm pretty sure they do draft 90% pitchers, didn't they draft about 10 straight this year?

 

80% isn't going to happen, but Rusch is already in the rotation, and he is that bad, so they do have rotation issues.

[Blueheart05]

80% hurt? Wood is a given but I'm not in favor of calling Prior's flukish injuries chronic (of course, if he isn't ready to go out of ST I might. LOL). The Cubs should have 5 servicable (uninjured) arms on opening day.

 

 

If that's the criteria than they'll probably have 5 servicable (uninjured) outfielders on opening day as well. That doesn't mean they'll be any good, just like Rusch or Maddux being healthy in April doesn't mean they'll be any good in April.

 

LOL, I didn't say they were going to be good but I do dispute that 80% of the rotation will be injured. Let's not make sweeping assumptions. You didn't quote my second paragraph. Rusch and Maddux aren't the problem the fact that we wont have a true number 3 pitcher is. I would prefer another SP before the season starts.

Edited December 19, 2005 by Blueheart05

[CubfaninCA]

i know that i am in the minority here but as far as that trade goes i would do it 10 out of 10 times. i believe that we over value our own prospects a bit and that while it is very beneficial to get good production for cheap(prospects) with the payroll the cubs have they can always trade potential for production. with a 100 million dollar payroll the cubs are better served trading away prospects that are hit or miss for players that you know exactly what you are getting. some work out some dont but that is the chance you take. i feel alot better with the other teams taking the chance on the players turning out to be good then the cubs taking that chance. this is just my opinion fire away at will with how you feel.

 

Yeah, but Pierre suc*s. So you know what you're getting, big deal. An expected kick in the nuts is still a kick in the nuts.

 

How is a .355 career OBP, 199H/yr avg a terrible thing for a leadoff hitter? And so what if it's all speed dependant - I don't anticipate Pierre slowing down significantly in the next few years anymore than I expect A-Ram to get weaker or Prior's arm to fall off. If Pierre's a kick in the nuts, then the Cubs could use a few more kicks like that.

 

Last year's all that counts. I guess.

[jjgman21]

first off i hope that people quit bringing up willis because no one saw that coming.

 

Not true.

 

It's not just Willis, it's the idea of trading good young prospects for mediocre veterans. I have no problem trading away prospects, even if they end up really good in a couple years. But when you do it, you better trade for really good veterans, and Pierre is not really good.

 

well can we at least keep in mind that MacPhail was still the GM when that trade went down. and can we at least acknowledge that all three pitchers the Cubs traded for Pierre have had serious control issues, whereas Willis had excellent control when traded. "good prosepcts" afterall is extremely subjective, so let's stop pretending that all three of these guys are going to be in major league rotations any time soon.

 

as I have said many times before, I don't particularly like the Pierre trade. however, not every GM will get every trade right. you have to give credit where credit is due, and the fact is, not one of Hendry's prospects for veteran trades have come back to haunt him. so please stop ranting like give away trades are a regular occurrence with Jim Hendry.

[CubfaninCA]

When's Wood supposed to be back? And Rusch isn't that bad and he was brought back to be a swingman. Also, they could still sign a pitcher.

 

If you're counting on 80% getting hurt, then the Cubs should draft 90% pitchers.

 

I'm pretty sure they do draft 90% pitchers, didn't they draft about 10 straight this year?

 

80% isn't going to happen, but Rusch is already in the rotation, and he is that bad, so they do have rotation issues.

 

What's the rotation look like then?? Prior, Z, Maddux, Williams & Rusch, with Wood ready by May?? There's been rumors of Hendry looking for a starter and I wouldn't be surprised to see him pick one up in January.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

[goonys evil twin]

well can we at least keep in mind that MacPhail was still the GM when that trade went down.

 

That is meaningless to me. Everybody reported that Hendry was the one who put together that deal. It was a Hendry deal all the way.

[jjgman21]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

 

add in a bucket of chicken wings and half the people here things it should land Abreu.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

 

I think Mitre and just one of Pinto/Nolasco would have been fair for Pierre.

[goonys evil twin]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

 

add in a bucket of chicken wings and half the people here things it should land Abreu.

 

Add Williams and Harvey and I think it gets you Abreu.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

 

add in a bucket of chicken wings and half the people here things it should land Abreu.

 

Add Williams and Harvey and I think it gets you Abreu.

 

Although the Phil's like chicken I think it'd take an impact player to land him.

[JeffH]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

 

add in a bucket of chicken wings and half the people here things it should land Abreu.

 

Add Williams and Harvey and I think it gets you Abreu.

 

When a team that is not under any sort of pressure to trade a superstar trades him, it's realistic for them to expect to get back at least one guy who is a very, very good bet to be a star. That deal lacks such a player.

[CubfaninCA]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

 

None of the above.

[Andy]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

Personally, I don't like Mitre at all, and to me he had all the trade value of Patterson. We've been playing him off and on for three years and he never did anything better than average. I can't imagine that we could have gotten much better of a player for Pierre, except for Bradley since they were giving him away - but clearly had no intention of giving him to the Cubs.

[Backtobanks]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

 

add in a bucket of chicken wings and half the people here things it should land Abreu.

 

Add Williams and Harvey and I think it gets you Abreu.

 

Unfortunately, you're not the Phil's GM. Everything I read said they want a #1 SP for Abreu. Nowhere in that list of names is anything above a #3 SP maybe.

[CubfaninCA]

Just curious, what type of player does everyone think Nolasco, Mitre, and Pinto should bring?

 

add in a bucket of chicken wings and half the people here things it should land Abreu.

 

Add Williams and Harvey and I think it gets you Abreu.

 

Replace Williams w/ Jon Garland and you may have a deal.

[jjgman21]

well can we at least keep in mind that MacPhail was still the GM when that trade went down.

 

That is meaningless to me. Everybody reported that Hendry was the one who put together that deal. It was a Hendry deal all the way.

 

fine. I'm apt to think that anything anyone tries to put in Hendry's favor is meaningless to you, but let's put them all into piles

 

Cubs get

three years of Clement

Aramis Ramirez

Michael Barrett

1/2 year of Nomar

Matt Murton

Derrek Lee

 

Cubs gave away

Willis

Taveraz

a handful of bench players and prospects that never made it.

 

seems to me Hendry has a long track record of doing what you want, only trade prospects if you are going to get good solid veteran players in return.

 

no matter how the Pierre trade ends up in retrospect, the scales still tilt way in Hendry's favor when it comes to trading prospects for veterans. seriously, besides Willis, name one above average major league player the Cubs gave up in the prospect stage.

 

 

I too hate some of the things Hendry does, but that is tempered by reality.