Some comfort about the Pierre Trade--Renyel Pinto

[Blueheart05]

Pinto may turn out to be a bust if he doesn't harness his control. Of course, he might learn command of his pitches overtime but right now he's either very wild or very hittable. It's obvious he isn't ready for primetime considering his output in the VWL (against many ML quality hitters) as well as his missteps in AAA.

 

Renyel Pinto allowed three runs -- two earned -- and seven hits in 4 2/3 innings yesterday for Anzoategui of the VWL.

At least he seems to have found his command. In his first three appearances of the VWL season, he walked eight batters over the course of one inning. Dec. 19 - 2:34 pm et

 

Rotoworld

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It sure isn't nice to wish evil on someone, but I really hope that Pinto never pans out after Dontrelle (Nolasco either).

[Blueheart05]

It sure isn't nice to wish evil on someone, but I really hope that Pinto never pans out after Dontrelle (Nolasco either).

 

I'm with you!

[goonys evil twin]

It sure isn't nice to wish evil on someone, but I really hope that Pinto never pans out after Dontrelle (Nolasco either).

 

I'm more worried about hoping Pierre lives up to the contract Hendry is going to give him than what those guys do in Florida. By the time Florida is back to contention, this Cubs team will be on to a completely different window of opportunity, and I'm just concerned with the current window now.

[JeffH]

It sure isn't nice to wish evil on someone, but I really hope that Pinto never pans out after Dontrelle (Nolasco either).

 

Not me. I want all three to become good major league pitchers, but none to become a superstar.

 

The last thing we need is for the Cubs minor league system to get a bad reputation around baseball.

[ShawonOmeter12]

i know that i am in the minority here but as far as that trade goes i would do it 10 out of 10 times. i believe that we over value our own prospects a bit and that while it is very beneficial to get good production for cheap(prospects) with the payroll the cubs have they can always trade potential for production. with a 100 million dollar payroll the cubs are better served trading away prospects that are hit or miss for players that you know exactly what you are getting. some work out some dont but that is the chance you take. i feel alot better with the other teams taking the chance on the players turning out to be good then the cubs taking that chance. this is just my opinion fire away at will with how you feel.

[Blueheart05]

It sure isn't nice to wish evil on someone, but I really hope that Pinto never pans out after Dontrelle (Nolasco either).

 

Not me. I want all three to become good major league pitchers, but none to become a superstar.

 

The last thing we need is for the Cubs minor league system to get a bad reputation around baseball.

 

In all fairness, if nothing becomes of the MiL's it wouldn't/shouldn't reflect poorly on the Cubs. Teams understand that they are taking a chance when they trade for unproven talent. Having said that, I agree that it is best for teams to make trades that help both sides; it isn't good to give the appearance of always getting over on other teams.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The biggest risk of someone becoming a success in that trade is Nolasco. I think little of Mitre, and lefty hardthrowers like Pinto with wild command are a dime a dozen and end up toiling as loogy's in the big leagues--if they're lucky. Cross reference: Heredia, Randolph, Sanchez.

 

I like Nolasco though, I'd have preferred to hang on to him, but we had a need for Pierre.

[goonys evil twin]

with a 100 million dollar payroll the cubs are better served trading away prospects that are hit or miss for players that you know exactly what you are getting.

 

The problem many have is they have a pretty good idea of exactly what they will get out of Pierre, and it's not enough.

[TheDude]

It sure isn't nice to wish evil on someone, but I really hope that Pinto never pans out after Dontrelle (Nolasco either).

 

I'm more worried about hoping Pierre lives up to the contract Hendry is going to give him than what those guys do in Florida. By the time Florida is back to contention, this Cubs team will be on to a completely different window of opportunity, and I'm just concerned with the current window now.

 

With Pie in the wings, you think Hendry is going to give Pierre a new contract?

[YearofDaCubs]

It sure isn't nice to wish evil on someone, but I really hope that Pinto never pans out after Dontrelle (Nolasco either).

 

I'm more worried about hoping Pierre lives up to the contract Hendry is going to give him than what those guys do in Florida. By the time Florida is back to contention, this Cubs team will be on to a completely different window of opportunity, and I'm just concerned with the current window now.

 

With Pie in the wings, you think Hendry is going to give Pierre a new contract?

Chances are Hendry will give Pierre at least 2 years. I dont see him as a rental of any sorts. Especially for what we gave up for him.

[goonys evil twin]

It sure isn't nice to wish evil on someone, but I really hope that Pinto never pans out after Dontrelle (Nolasco either).

 

I'm more worried about hoping Pierre lives up to the contract Hendry is going to give him than what those guys do in Florida. By the time Florida is back to contention, this Cubs team will be on to a completely different window of opportunity, and I'm just concerned with the current window now.

 

With Pie in the wings, you think Hendry is going to give Pierre a new contract?

 

It would be quite idiotic to trade what he traded if all you were planning on getting was a one year rental. I think Hendry believes an OF of Murton, Pierre and Pie could be really good in 2007. Even though Murton doesn't have a good chance of putting up good corner OF numbers and Pie probably has no chance of putting up good corner OF numbers, at least in his rookie year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

[TheDude]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

Only to people who sorely devalue Pierre.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

Only to people who sorely devalue Pierre.

 

You say sorely devalue, I say realistic assessment.

[Blueheart05]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

You're exaggerating to say the least. How can two prospects that haven't been able to pitch well outside of AA be worth more than Juan Pierre? I realize that "worth" is subjective to a degree but let's look at this objectively; Juan Pierre is a more than servicable Major Leaguer who has helped to contribute to a WS victory. One can argue that there are more effective CF's but that isn't the point, he isn't the worst CF either. Plus, the Cubs weren't the only team looking to trade for him (which can point to his worth).

[CubinNY]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

Only to people who sorely devalue Pierre.

 

One weak hitting CFer who won't take a walk making his entire worth dependent on his speed and batting average are never worth two left handed pitchers with decent upside plus a 4th starter. Never.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

You're exaggerating to say the least. How can two prospects that haven't been able to pitch well outside of AA be worth more than Juan Pierre? I realize that "worth" is subjective to a degree but let's look at this objectively; Juan Pierre is a more than servicable Major Leaguer who has helped to contribute to a WS victory. One can argue that there are more effective CF's but that isn't the point, he isn't the worst CF either. Plus, the Cubs weren't the only team looking to trade for him (which can point to his worth).

 

That's certainly one way to describe Pinto and Nolasco. Another would be "two prospects with good stuff who dominated AA at age appropriate levels".

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

Only to people who sorely devalue Pierre.

 

One weak hitting CFer who won't take a walk making his entire worth dependent on his speed and batting average are never worth two left handed pitchers with decent upside plus a 4th starter. Never.

 

We only gave up 1 LHP. Mitre and Nolasco are both RHP. How does "decent upside" equate to value?

[Blueheart05]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

Only to people who sorely devalue Pierre.

 

One weak hitting CFer who won't take a walk making his entire worth dependent on his speed and batting average are never worth two left handed pitchers with decent upside plus a 4th starter. Never.

 

Nolasco is a RHP and he's probably the best of the three. The only sure thing the Marlins got out of the trade was Mitre because he will most likely be in their rotation next year.

[CubinNY]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

Only to people who sorely devalue Pierre.

 

One weak hitting CFer who won't take a walk making his entire worth dependent on his speed and batting average are never worth two left handed pitchers with decent upside plus a 4th starter. Never.

 

We only gave up 1 LHP. Mitre and Nolasco are both RHP. How does "decent upside" equate to value?

 

I don't know why don't you ask Dontrell Willis.

 

Sorry one left handed pitcher and one right handed pitcher.

 

Pinto did have trouble in AAA but he came back and pitched pretty well.

 

Over the course of their careers I think Mitre, Nolasco, and Pinto will be of more value than Pierre will be.

[Lefty]

i know that i am in the minority here but as far as that trade goes i would do it 10 out of 10 times. i believe that we over value our own prospects a bit and that while it is very beneficial to get good production for cheap(prospects) with the payroll the cubs have they can always trade potential for production. with a 100 million dollar payroll the cubs are better served trading away prospects that are hit or miss for players that you know exactly what you are getting. some work out some dont but that is the chance you take. i feel alot better with the other teams taking the chance on the players turning out to be good then the cubs taking that chance. this is just my opinion fire away at will with how you feel.

 

Yeah, but Pierre suc*s. So you know what you're getting, big deal. An expected kick in the nuts is still a kick in the nuts.

[Blueheart05]

Regardless of whether Nolasco or Pinto pan out, they were/are still worth more than Pierre at the time of the trade.

 

You're exaggerating to say the least. How can two prospects that haven't been able to pitch well outside of AA be worth more than Juan Pierre? I realize that "worth" is subjective to a degree but let's look at this objectively; Juan Pierre is a more than servicable Major Leaguer who has helped to contribute to a WS victory. One can argue that there are more effective CF's but that isn't the point, he isn't the worst CF either. Plus, the Cubs weren't the only team looking to trade for him (which can point to his worth).

 

That's certainly one way to describe Pinto and Nolasco. Another would be "two prospects with good stuff who dominated AA at age appropriate levels".

 

One could also argue that when Pinto was promoted to AAA he couldn't compete. The Cubs should have promoted Nolasco last year but they left him in AA to continue working (who knows, it might have been because they didn't want to risk lowering his tradeability. I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry had plans to use them as trade bait before the offseason began).

 

I like potential like the next person but Pinto and Nolasco haven't had enough sustained success to really worry about loosing them. That's not to say that it wouldn't bother me if one or both had successful ML careers in the near future. On the other hand, if it takes 5 to 7 years or more before they blossom that is the chance every team will take because you can't hold on to all of them...

[CubfaninCA]

i know that i am in the minority here but as far as that trade goes i would do it 10 out of 10 times. i believe that we over value our own prospects a bit and that while it is very beneficial to get good production for cheap(prospects) with the payroll the cubs have they can always trade potential for production. with a 100 million dollar payroll the cubs are better served trading away prospects that are hit or miss for players that you know exactly what you are getting. some work out some dont but that is the chance you take. i feel alot better with the other teams taking the chance on the players turning out to be good then the cubs taking that chance. this is just my opinion fire away at will with how you feel.

 

Agree w/ 10 out of 10 and overvaluing. The Cubs have plenty of young arms, (Z, Prior, Williams, Hill, Guzman & I think a few other's are ranked ahead of Nolasco and Pinto).

 

The Cubs aren't going to an 8 man rotation and if they could have got Dunn or Abreu for Nolasco, Pinto and whoever, the deal would have already been done. It was a solid deal.

[noisesquared]

i know that i am in the minority here but as far as that trade goes i would do it 10 out of 10 times. i believe that we over value our own prospects a bit and that while it is very beneficial to get good production for cheap(prospects) with the payroll the cubs have they can always trade potential for production. with a 100 million dollar payroll the cubs are better served trading away prospects that are hit or miss for players that you know exactly what you are getting. some work out some dont but that is the chance you take. i feel alot better with the other teams taking the chance on the players turning out to be good then the cubs taking that chance. this is just my opinion fire away at will with how you feel.

 

Yeah, but Pierre suc*s. So you know what you're getting, big deal. An expected kick in the nuts is still a kick in the nuts.

 

How is a .355 career OBP, 199H/yr avg a terrible thing for a leadoff hitter? And so what if it's all speed dependant - I don't anticipate Pierre slowing down significantly in the next few years anymore than I expect A-Ram to get weaker or Prior's arm to fall off. If Pierre's a kick in the nuts, then the Cubs could use a few more kicks like that.