"Moneyball"

[Sabermetrician]

I'm curious, for those that have read Moneyball, what information did they offer that was interesting to you? Let me just say that I have read it before and thought it was great, I wish I underlined some stuff so I could easily go back to it again, but I didn't and now I don't have the team to re-read it all again right now. So, anyone have it off hand that knows any of the stuff they have that might classify as "help" to organizations such as the A's?

[USSoccer]

I'm curious, for those that have read Moneyball, what information did they offer that was interesting to you? Let me just say that I have read it before and thought it was great, I wish I underlined some stuff so I could easily go back to it again, but I didn't and now I don't have the team to re-read it all again right now. So, anyone have it off hand that knows any of the stuff they have that might classify as "help" to organizations such as the A's?

 

The sections on the draft were interesting.

[CubinNY]

all the tobacco chewing.

[CuseCubFan69]

The part when Paul Newman steals Tom Cruises girlfriend.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I thought the part on the draft was the best. I liked it as informative look into another team's front office.

 

BTW, Jerry Crasnick's Liscence to Deal offers a nice look into the agent side of baseball.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

"The difference between a .275 hitter and a .300 hitter is one hit every 2 weeks."

[Sabermetrician]

"The difference between a .275 hitter and a .300 hitter is one hit every 2 weeks."

 

Yeah, that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

 

I also remember something like "If baseball were done without stats and a casual fan watched two players often -- one a .250 hitter and the other a .300 hitter -- by season's end there would still be a 50% chance the fan says the .250 hitter is better."

 

I know that's not exact, anyone have that quote?

[Holy Cow]

I liked when they talked about the new wave of stats that are coming. For example, finally referring to a hit by where it lands and the tragectory it takes, rather than just single, double, out, etc, so that a batter who gets a double stolen by Torii Hunter still gets credit for having done something good, rather than just an 0-1.

[B]

I'm curious, for those that have read Moneyball, what information did they offer that was interesting to you? Let me just say that I have read it before and thought it was great, I wish I underlined some stuff so I could easily go back to it again, but I didn't and now I don't have the team to re-read it all again right now. So, anyone have it off hand that knows any of the stuff they have that might classify as "help" to organizations such as the A's?

 

Wouldn't that be sweet if we all had a team to read stuff for us. :wink:

[Geech]

I also remember something like "If baseball were done without stats and a casual fan watched two players often -- one a .250 hitter and the other a .300 hitter -- by season's end there would still be a 50% chance the fan says the .250 hitter is better."

 

I know that's not exact, anyone have that quote?

 

The one you're thinking of is a Bill James excerpt.

 

One absolutely cannot tell, by watching, the difference between a .300 hitter and a .275 hitter. The difference is one hit every two weeks. It might be that a reporter, seeing every game that the team plays, could sense that difference over the course of the year if no records were kept, but I doubt it. Certainly the average fan, seeing perhaps a tenth of the team's games, could never gauge two performances that accurately -- in fact if you see both 15 games a year, there is a 40% chance that the .275 hitter will have more hits than the .300 hitter in the games that you see.

[imb]

here's my favorite quote from the book, maybe my favorite quote ever.

 

"Basically, everything you know about baseball when you are fourteen years old, you know from baseball announcers. Here was this guy [bill James] who was telling me that at least eighty percent of what baseball announcers told me was complete bull****, and then explained very convincingly why it was." - Voros McCracken.

[10man]

The fact that it was really Sandy Alderson who was behind the A's success and NOT Billy Beane.

[Mizzou]

I thought the part on the draft was the best. I liked it as informative look into another team's front office.

 

BTW, Jerry Crasnick's Liscence to Deal offers a nice look into the agent side of baseball.

 

All the reviews I've read of that make it sound like a pretty good read, I think I might pick it up. What's your opinion of it?

[Magnetic Curses]

The fact that it was really Sandy Alderson who was behind the A's success and NOT Billy Beane.

 

i don't think it said that at all.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I thought the part on the draft was the best. I liked it as informative look into another team's front office.

 

BTW, Jerry Crasnick's Liscence to Deal offers a nice look into the agent side of baseball.

 

All the reviews I've read of that make it sound like a pretty good read, I think I might pick it up. What's your opinion of it?

I liked it. I enjoyed reading some of the inside info on the agent business and such. The agents he focuses on aren't big time agents either, so it gives a person an outlook on how difficult it is to break in that kind of business.

[Sabermetrician]

here's my favorite quote from the book, maybe my favorite quote ever.

 

"Basically, everything you know about baseball when you are fourteen years old, you know from baseball announcers. Here was this guy [bill James] who was telling me that at least eighty percent of what baseball announcers told me was complete bull****, and then explained very convincingly why it was." - Voros McCracken.

 

Sorry to bump this thread, but do you have a page number for this quote? I tried to find it, but couldn't.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

here's my favorite quote from the book, maybe my favorite quote ever.

 

"Basically, everything you know about baseball when you are fourteen years old, you know from baseball announcers. Here was this guy [bill James] who was telling me that at least eighty percent of what baseball announcers told me was complete bull****, and then explained very convincingly why it was." - Voros McCracken.

 

Sorry to bump this thread, but do you have a page number for this quote? I tried to find it, but couldn't.

 

Page 235 in my copy, in the chapter titled "Anatomy of an Undervalued Pitcher".

[Sabermetrician]

Do you know if this quote is in that book?

 

"The problem is that baseball statistics are not pure accomplishments of men against other men, which is what we're in the habit of seeing them as. They are accomplishments of men in combination with their circumstances."

 

That's Bill James, but I don't know if it's Moneyball, one of his Abstracts, or just a quote online from him.

[Sabermetrician]

Also, I cannot find who came up with these statistics:

SecA (Secondary Average)

OPS+ (Adjusted OPS)

[Magnetic Curses]

Do you know if this quote is in that book?

 

"The problem is that baseball statistics are not pure accomplishments of men against other men, which is what we're in the habit of seeing them as. They are accomplishments of men in combination with their circumstances."

 

That's Bill James, but I don't know if it's Moneyball, one of his Abstracts, or just a quote online from him.

 

i don't know, but i'd argue that baseball is the most individualistic team sport around.

[DarkLink715]

Do you know if this quote is in that book?

 

"The problem is that baseball statistics are not pure accomplishments of men against other men, which is what we're in the habit of seeing them as. They are accomplishments of men in combination with their circumstances."

 

That's Bill James, but I don't know if it's Moneyball, one of his Abstracts, or just a quote online from him.

 

It's in Moneyball, on page 71 in my copy.

[PieOnMyHands]

"The difference between a .275 hitter and a .300 hitter is one hit every 2 weeks."

 

I remember that quote. That was one that made me grin.

 

 

I did also like the draft section. I vaguely remember them discussing family and attitude issues, and not even giving them a consderation for that reason. That was kinda neat.

 

 

Uhm... one part that I remember really "wowing" me was when they, uh... I think they took the combined OBPs or something of all projected 9 players in the lineup to predict how many runs the team would score, and they were ridiculously close.

[cubbieinexile]

Also, I cannot find who came up with these statistics:

SecA (Secondary Average)

OPS+ (Adjusted OPS)

 

secondary average was created by Bill James. OPS was probably created or at least coined by John Thorn and Pete Palmer back in the early 80's.